0:04

Gays reading, where the greats drop by. Trendy authors tell us all the who, what, and why. Anyone can listen, cause we're spoiler free. Gays reading. From poets and stars, to book club picks. Where the curious minds can get their fix. So you say you're not gay, well that's okay. There's something for everyone. Gays reading. Hello and welcome to gazers. I was reading what's the T. If you are new to gaze reading, you can like, and subscribe. Wherever you get your podcasts, you can follow us over on Instagram. At gaze reading. And you can find the link to our YouTube. Channel where you can watch this conversation in the show notes or. In our link tree over on Instagram. And without further ado here is tea time

Jason Blitman: 1:00

Sarah Levitt Welcome to Tea Time. Thanks for joining me.

Sarah Leavitt: 1:03

Thanks for having me.

Jason Blitman: 1:05

I have Sarah Levitt here to talk to me about her new book, Something Not Nothing. Calling it a book is not fair. It is a graphic memoir. It is a graphic, poetic, meditation on grief.

Sarah Leavitt: 1:19

Thank you. Yeah. I like that.

Jason Blitman: 1:21

And none of those letters, none of those words start with T, E, or A,

Sarah Leavitt: 1:24

no, but I did my homework and

Jason Blitman: 1:27

Of course you did, because you're a professor! I was gonna say, so I didn't give any, I didn't steal any potential words of yours in describing your book. Sarah, what's the T?

Sarah Leavitt: 1:36

The T okay. You just have to bear with me. So I chose the word true, which I feel like on the surface seems unimaginative because it's a memoir, but. I just I spent some time thinking about the T and the E and the A, and I was thinking about how what this book is, it's a collection of short comics that I did in the first two years after my partner died her name was Donimo which was the name she gave herself in the 80s, um, we can talk about that later if it's relevant. But anyway, she died in 2020. She had a lot of chronic illnesses and she actually had a medically assisted death. And and we'd been together for 22 years. So in the first two years after her death, it was obviously in a very kind of altered state, especially at the beginning. And so when I was starting to make art about her death. I just instinctively started making, like you said, like these more poetic kind of experimental comics, and so there's a lot of like colors and shapes and fragments of text and stuff, and so the word that kept coming into my mind is true the way https: otter. ai It felt to me, the truest way to try to convey what it was like, because it's not like I went through a thought process where I was like, more representational narrative work doesn't serve me, it's like I instinctively went for that.

Jason Blitman: 2:58

Yeah. No, I love that. Yeah, because it's it's true in the sense of. Honest to yourself.

Sarah Leavitt: 3:03

yeah.

Jason Blitman: 3:04

It is a true story but it was true spiritually.

Sarah Leavitt: 3:07

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 3:09

Interesting. I love that. And I would I, spoiler alert, The Hero Dies. I could not read. Are you familiar with that book?

Sarah Leavitt: 3:18

No.

Jason Blitman: 3:19

There's a memoir called, spoiler alert, The Hero Dies.

Sarah Leavitt: 3:23

Okay. I have to read it.

Jason Blitman: 3:24

you can imagine what it's about could not read that. So I was concerned when this book is, was essentially pitched as a version of that sort of story, I like opened it with my eyes squinted. But then I think because of the, the more poetic, more metaphoric more artful version of sharing the story made it, I don't want to say easier to read because that isn't true but when you're reading a, 300 page memoir where it's like literally hearing the exact stories of this person's life and their story of losing their partner, like that's a very different experience. And this you're experiencing a feeling versus reading the words. So it I'm grateful that you showcased your true self in an artful way that makes it accessible to people who have a hard time reading about grief.

Sarah Leavitt: 4:19

That's interesting. That's interesting to hear. I've definitely thought about how I felt like there's, there's almost like a book that I didn't write, which is the story of Donna Mo's illness. And I talk about it in the introduction, but. Yeah, like her illness and kind of the details of the end of her life, and I don't think I'll ever write that, but it's not something that I, I mean, I'm happy to talk about it, not happy, it's not like I, it's a secret or anything. It's just yeah, this was about like her death and kind of my survival afterwards. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 4:51

Absolutely. Okay. It feels very true. So I

Sarah Leavitt: 4:54

Thank you.

Jason Blitman: 4:55

appreciate the tea. All right. What's your E?

Sarah Leavitt: 4:57

Okay. E is exploration. Um, Yeah. So I say this in the book, but I felt like I was, Donna Mona, before she, she died, we talked about like the afterlife for her, right? What, was there something after death? Was she going somewhere? Was she, what happens after you die? And then I realized I was going into an afterlife as well because, and people said that to me, they were like, you don't know yet how massively your life is going to change, like your entire world is going to change and sure you'll be grieving, but it's also like you're going to be in this completely new life that you don't know anything about yet. And that turned out to be true in a lot of ways. And so I felt when I was making these comics, they were documenting this new world, or that I was exploring and coming to know.

Jason Blitman: 5:46

Even the simple thing towards the beginning of the story of being in bed By yourself. Is like a, is an emotion to explore, is a feeling to explore, is a exploring the new, I don't want to say new normal, because that doesn't feel right, but just the new life, the new afterlife. I've never heard that. I've never heard it described as an afterlife in that way.

Sarah Leavitt: 6:09

Yeah, it really is. And I remember, I think I read there's a Canadian website that kind of shares stories of people whose partners have had medically assisted deaths. And, This woman talking about like how she just had to rebuild herself and figure out who she was without her partner. And I think like lots of us have experienced that even after a breakup, right? You're like, Oh, I, who am I like not in relation to this other person? Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 6:37

Yeah. I my husband and I just hit. We're a little over 10 years together.

Sarah Leavitt: 6:42

Congratulations.

Jason Blitman: 6:44

I uh, the longer we're together, the more stories like this, like really impact me. And Feel for the people that have been with their partners for a very long time. Anyway, what is your

Sarah Leavitt: 6:57

My a, again, like the true, I'm like, is it too obvious? It's art. Because a really big part of this work was just exploring a new way of making art. So I alluded to that earlier, but the comics that I made, these poetic meditations, as you call them are totally like, they're new to me. I had done a little bit of kind of abstract comics before this, but not to this degree. And I hadn't used watercolors like this before. And I, what can this ink pen do? What can like, What can this brush do? What can these watercolors do? What happens when I like mix, when I layer watercolors and colored pencils and how are these colored pencils different from these ones? I know it's a very kind of physical experience more than previous experiences of art making. So like really, there was a way in which I just felt really free to experiment with stuff cause it started out really, As work for myself. And also, when you're in a place of kind of deep emotion, there's a little bit of whatever, I'm just going to do whatever I want. I don't have anything to lose.

Jason Blitman: 8:05

And you essentially created your own form, too.

Sarah Leavitt: 8:08

Yeah, I definitely have influences, but yeah. I was doing something that was totally new to me. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 8:14

Or you, I find it very interesting because people can make assumptions about a book like this going into it, and it's not Fun Home, right? It's not the sort of linear memoir, not that Fun Home is linear, but in the, comparatively. Yeah, Someone else that I recently had tea time with, he made a three word phrase describing his book in his three letters, and I, that like blew my mind. So I just took your three words and thought of a three word sentence, a three word sentence. True explorational art, T E A,

Sarah Leavitt: 8:46

Nice. Thank you.

Jason Blitman: 8:48

little phrase.

Sarah Leavitt: 8:49

Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 8:50

I would, and I think that's a totally wonderful way of describing Um, it seems so silly to ask if this was cathartic, because is it ever? But your feelings, was it cathartic?

Sarah Leavitt: 9:08

Yeah. I don't think it's a silly question and it's funny because I feel like with my first memoir was about my mom dying and I feel like when people asked me that I had this kind of defensive response of no, this is there's art therapy and then there's art and they're totally different and this wasn't cathartic. And I feel less. defensive about it now? Sure, yeah, it was cathartic. I think that if I hadn't been able to make this kind of art, then it would have been harder for me. It's a main, one of my main ways that I make sense of the world. And sure, like when it came time to put the book together. There's things that I didn't include because they were too messy and not for anybody else to see or they just weren't good. And so there's definitely a, I still think there's a separation between like therapy and art, but absolutely it was cathartic and just I'd say like steadying in a way, like just to have this touchstone that you can come back to Yeah, and I feel like everybody should have that whether or not you're gonna put it together and show it to an audience, like it's, it can make such a difference just to be able to draw and write about something, and yeah, like I, yeah,

Jason Blitman: 10:20

It's interesting, because I think that asking about whether or not it's cathartic goes back to what you were saying about the book about your mom, in that you, you are a graphic artist. You do, you are a writer, right? So it is taking what you do and putting it into practice. I can understand why you could get defensive about, it not being cathartic because it's your work, versus if you were a lawyer and then wrote a book about that experience, that might have been cathartic because it isn't the work that you are, typically doing. So it's interesting to hear that for this, it was almost a balance of both of those things. And I think when I said, it's almost as though you created your own form, that's what I. was imagining in my brain is like you took this like cathartic art this art that you were doing for catharsis and turned it into the work that you normally would do right like does that make sense

Sarah Leavitt: 11:15

Yeah, like there was less of a barrier or something or, in a way it makes, that makes sense to me because this way of making art feels much more me. I think

Jason Blitman: 11:25

true

Sarah Leavitt: 11:26

yeah, like in middle age, I finally found like a way of making art that feels right to me. I don't know.

Jason Blitman: 11:32

Amazing. Yes. Listen, just talking about my journey earlier today. I get it. No, that's amazing. So I'm struggling because not only was it obviously a terrible time emotionally for you personally, but also in the world, what a time to go through all of that. So I imagine as well, the, Again, not to put words in your mouth, but I imagine like between losing Domino, but also COVID and all of the thing, like, how did you even manage to get through?

Sarah Leavitt: 12:01

I don't know. I think, yeah, it was really hard. I think. Honestly and I just say this with sincerity, like a lot of it was about having a certain amount of privilege. So I teach at a university, I had medical leave because that started right before my partner died. So I had could I could afford to take time off and grieve? And I'm so aware of. what it means to not be able to do that. So I honestly think that was part of how I made it through. I also had, I was really fortunate at that time to have a really lovely queer family. These friends who we were each other's COVID bubble. We were all single, we had some like arguments when people started dating and we had to negotiate can you date and then still be part of our

Jason Blitman: 12:53

did they date within the bubble or outside of the bubble?

Sarah Leavitt: 12:56

thank God. No, there was none of that. We're like, we had known each other for too long, but we were all going to go away somewhere. And then a couple of people were like I like, I'm going to go see this new lover and it's no, you're not. Anyway, I don't know. That was a tangent.

Jason Blitman: 13:08

I love it. I love it. We love the drama on Gay's Reading.

Sarah Leavitt: 13:13

So I was lucky to have these people that had been friends with us for a really long time. They'd been there like at the exact same time. At the time when my partner died, and so we stuck together through that time.

Jason Blitman: 13:25

Yeah, our queer family is very important.

Sarah Leavitt: 13:29

Yes, absolutely. We would have been honestly completely lost without them.

Jason Blitman: 13:33

Yeah. I, we were talking, we were talking about dating. I don't remember. Okay, Because we're having our tea party, If you could have a tea party with anybody in the world, in the universe, dead or alive, who would it be? Fictional or non fictional? I

Sarah Leavitt: 13:50

real person and I was so excited about this question because the person that I would have tea with. She's a real person, but she's dead, is Tove Jansson. She created the Moomin Trolls?

Jason Blitman: 14:02

idea what that

Sarah Leavitt: 14:02

Okay, Toby Janssen is a Was this amazing? She was a Swedish speaking Finn. So she lived in Finland, but she spoke Swedish and she was a graphic designer and artist and writer. And she created this series called the Moomin Trolls. And there's I have a little reference to them in the book. But they're like this, a series of kids books and also comics that are about these imaginary creatures, the Moomintrolls and their friends. And then she also wrote fiction. She wrote this incredible book called The Summer Book, which I think should be, like everybody should read it because it's the most beautiful book. And she was born in 1914 and she lived into her 80s. So she had this huge. expansive history. And she was a lesbian. I think she she started out Not identifying as a lesbian, but ended up identifying anyway, she was with a woman for 45 years and they lived partly in Helsinki. And then they also had this place where they went in the summer, this little house on a very isolated Island. So if you look on Instagram, there's this account that I think is called something like Tove Jansson official, and they just posted this. Video of her from the early seventies where she's holding her black cat and I have a black hat and she's like dancing with the cat and just in the most silly, joyous way. And she was just really cool. Like she was, she was queer, in I think from like the, I don't, at least the fifties on, if not earlier. And. She also did like political cartoons critiquing Hitler and then these beautiful kids books and beautiful adult books. And I just think she'd be so weird and fun to hang out with. And just I have all these questions I want to ask her about the world she created. Yeah,

Jason Blitman: 16:02

I love that. What a good answer.

Sarah Leavitt: 16:06

I thought it was, I was really proud of it. Yeah. No, seriously. And then I was like, oh, I'm so sad she's dead. Because I actually I do wanna have tea with her.

Jason Blitman: 16:14

I know. What is with the being drawn to like, sad things for your art?

Sarah Leavitt: 16:18

It's my life. I don't know,

Jason Blitman: 16:20

My life is tragic. What can I tell you?

Sarah Leavitt: 16:23

hard. I don't know I think, yeah, I don't know. I,

Jason Blitman: 16:26

emotional things make good art. And if these are things that are happening in your life that are worth exploring through art, then that's what they are.

Sarah Leavitt: 16:33

It's funny because, in between my two memoirs about sad things happening to me, I wrote, A fictional comic about a murderess, which I guess is also

Jason Blitman: 16:43

A serial

Sarah Leavitt: 16:43

Yeah. So I don't know, maybe I have a problem. I probably have multiple problems, but I think for me to this most recent book, it's it is sad, but it's also there's joy in it. Like I, There was joy in finding this way of making art, and in sharing my love for Donna Moe with other people, and we had the book launch this past last week and it was just there was a lot of laughing, and remembering her and joy and stuff, and yeah, I don't know. I don't know. We'll see what I do next.

Jason Blitman: 17:16

Listen, I think a lot of art comes out of, wounds, right? Good or bad or whatever, and honestly, things that are funny or happy can come out of wounds that are sad and heartbreaking. It's yeah. I think I'm really just giving you a hard time. So excited for your book. Something, not nothing. Congratulations. Everyone, check it out where could people find you?

Sarah Leavitt: 17:40

Instagram Instagram is still, I, where I'm hanging out. It's like the best place to find me. I'm Yeah, I'm working on other art projects. I'm I worked on the script for a feature length animation based on my first book, and so I'm still a little bit involved in that, like it's mostly in other people's hands now, but that's another project in my world, and teaching,

Jason Blitman: 18:08

When can we expect to experience that? Do we know?

Sarah Leavitt: 18:10

We're hoping to experience it in 2026, beginning of 2026, so not too long from now, yeah,

Jason Blitman: 18:17

not too long from And teaching. Fantastic.

Sarah Leavitt: 18:20

yeah.

Jason Blitman: 18:20

Sarah, it's so nice to meet you.

Sarah Leavitt: 18:22

It's so nice to meet you, thank you so much for having me.

Jason Blitman: 18:25

Have a wonderful rest of your day.