0:04

Gaze reading, where the greats drop by. Trendy authors tell us all the who, what, and why. Anyone can listen, cause we're spoiler free. Gaze reading. From poets and stars, to book club picks. Where the curious minds can get their fix. So you say you're not gay, well that's okay. There's something for everyone. Gaze reading.

Yeti Stereo Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-3: 0:34

Hello, and welcome to gays reading. I'm your host, Jason Blitman. And welcome back to those who have been here before. And if you are new to gaze reading, I am very happy to have you here. Uh, happy Thanksgiving, everyone. This is one of my absolute favorite holidays, mostly because it's just gathering with people that you love and eating delicious food and who could ask for anything more. Not me. That's it. Uh, to prepare us for a week. Of spending time with our families and relatives and people that we laugh. We have the perfect guests on the show today. Uh, Britt Baron is here to talk to us about her book. Do you still talk to grandma? Need I say more. And R Eric Thomas, who is freaking hilarious. He is a previous guest of gaze reading. He's an author. He wrote the book. Congratulations. The best is over, which is currently out in paperback. Uh, and he is an advice columnist. And so again, great person for us to get advice from. On a week that can be very challenging to people. Uh, their bio's are in V show notes. And if you like what you're hearing, please share us with your friends, like, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And if you can leave a five star review, it is always super, super helpful. So that other people can find the podcast as well. Make sure to follow us on social media. We are at gaze reading on Instagram. We're doing tons of giveaways all the time, and that is the place to find us. Happy Thanksgiving. Enjoy today's episode here as Brit Barron and R Eric Thomas.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 2:13

Welcome to Gays reading.

Brit Barron: 2:15

Thank

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 2:16

So happy to have you. I will talk about your book in a sec, but because I feel like we're going to go down a spiraling rabbit hole, there are a couple of things I have to talk about. before we start talking about the book.

Brit Barron: 2:31

Perfect.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 2:32

The first is, and maybe this is going to be the whole hour, I don't know. The first is Toy Story 3.

Brit Barron: 2:39

Okay.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 2:40

It is one of my favorite movies of all time.

Brit Barron: 2:43

I love this.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 2:44

Clearly it's one of yours too.

Brit Barron: 2:48

As soon as you said it, I just needed to make sure I had the right movie in my because there are so many Toy

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 2:53

There are. But you include Toy Story 3 in the book.

Brit Barron: 2:57

Oh my gosh. Yeah, because of the Pixar

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 3:00

Exactly. I'm a close reader, Brett.

Brit Barron: 3:03

Okay, I love this. This is the one where it starts to get sad. And

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 3:07

I know,

Brit Barron: 3:07

I don't know why I liked it, because I'm usually not sad. You know what I mean? I usually only like happy,

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 3:14

you, are you sentimental?

Brit Barron: 3:17

yes,

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 3:17

Movie in particular is the epitome of sentimental.

Brit Barron: 3:21

I don't like sad, but I do like meaning,

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 3:23

Yes. A hundred percent. And the end of the movie, which like, spoiler, it's been out for so many years, it's not a spoiler, but like, when they're holding hands on their way into the incinerator

Brit Barron: 3:34

what is this? You know what I

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 3:35

what is this?

Brit Barron: 3:36

This boy story that's like an M. Night Shyamalan Like some kind of spooky, and I don't know and it's just like also I'm like we grew up with these people Pixar is like literally they're like Your toys are real your cars are people and your feelings are people. It's like what? Why do I have feelings for feelings like

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 4:02

Everything is sentient.

Brit Barron: 4:04

Yeah,

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 4:05

It comes, the context in the book is that basically, at Pixar, they say you have to like, stop at 80 percent because creatives can like, nitpick at things forever and forever. So once Pixar hits 80 percent happy, they move on. And the idea is like, how on earth is Toy Story 3? 80%.

Brit Barron: 4:28

someone's 80%.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 4:29

I know,

Brit Barron: 4:30

Like all the Pixar movies, I'm like, this is somebody's 80%. That should blow all of our minds.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 4:36

this is why I wanted, I needed to start with this because

Brit Barron: 4:38

That's my 120%. It's an unreachable goal to get to like You know what I mean? Coco. Like you think I'm gonna, that's an 80%?

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 4:49

Okay. There are some where definitely that's, you could tell, but that's

Brit Barron: 4:52

a few skated in at 75. A hundred, like for sure.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 4:56

will say I, I have taught a lot of like theater workshops and things. Cause I, as a theater director and I often will tell performers, if you give a hundred percent, of what you're capable of giving that day is what we're looking for, right? So if you're only capable that day of 80 percent, but give me all of your 80 percent.

Brit Barron: 5:20

Yeah. Okay, I love that.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 5:21

Yeah. So I'm like, oh, maybe that's where Pixar lives, right? It's We got all of the

Brit Barron: 5:27

The best we could do in this moment and that's, and we're doing

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 5:29

Right, So anyway, I just needed to express my love of

Brit Barron: 5:32

I love that. I love that. I was not expecting it and that makes me very happy. I'm like, oh, okay, yes. I feel like you just took me out of book. And I'm like, oh yeah, I'm a real person and I like movies.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 5:43

yeah, hello. Second IRL thing I have to talk to you about before we talk about your book is your. Irrational, non negotiable, should you ever have children that you don't actually want,

Brit Barron: 6:00

yes,

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 6:01

they are picky eaters. You cannot,

Brit Barron: 6:04

no, I won't do

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 6:05

and I'm like, I fully support that.

Brit Barron: 6:09

I just don't want to be, and again, this is a made up scenario because I don't have kids and I'm not planning on having kids, but, so everything's on the table, but I'm just like, I just don't want to be. like take my kids to sushi and then be the ones with chicken tenders. Like I don't, I just don't want that for

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 6:29

Yeah.

Brit Barron: 6:29

And I don't know, food is like so important. And just to to give a kid, give my kid beige every day. If all they wanted was just like mashed potatoes, macaroni and cheese, chicken nuggets I don't know what I would do. That feels can't do it. You know what I mean? Like you're getting uni. And you're gonna you're gonna figure it out. Okay, it's a specific it's an acquired taste and you're gonna acquire it and that's just like

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 6:54

I'm like, not gonna be the person who doesn't have children telling people how to parent, but let me, here I go on my soapbox. I'm in the camp of if you don't eat what I give you, you're not going to eat tonight.

Brit Barron: 7:05

Yeah, I mean it's all this is the thing about not having kids everything's simple and

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 7:09

A hundred percent.

Brit Barron: 7:09

You know what? I'm like, oh my fake kids that we're talking about that don't exist They would be on a perfect sleep schedule. They would not be picky eaters They'd somehow be like clean and understand how to not be messy when they're like one year old maybe there's so many things That i'm like sure if this is fake Here's my non negotiables.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 7:26

I know. Brit, our kids are perfect.

Brit Barron: 7:28

Yeah, I love that for us.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 7:30

for us.

Brit Barron: 7:31

Oh, take them on a play date. So the museum.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 7:35

Yes. They're interested in learning things. They like reading the plaques.

Brit Barron: 7:39

They love

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 7:39

They love art.

Brit Barron: 7:41

They put on the headphones. They walk through the whole thing.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 7:44

I will say I'm, my husband is a plaque reader and I'm just like, dude, we got to keep moving. But I love an audio tour because it's I don't even care how long it is, but it just gives you context and it gives you the highlights. And it's here's the thing you didn't notice. And here's the thing you want to see. And here's the other thing. And I'm like, so into that. It's like a mix of black reading and speeding through

Brit Barron: 8:06

Yeah, I like that. I only go up to the plaques to see how wrong I am about what something is made out of.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 8:12

or what it's called. Yeah.

Brit Barron: 8:14

Yeah, like I feel so confident. I'm like, that's gotta be acrylic on canvas, right? And they're like, oil on wood. And I'm like, oh wow, okay,

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 8:22

art is magic.

Brit Barron: 8:24

Yeah, I'm like, Oh my gosh, what do you mean this is made out of t shirts?

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 8:27

No, the thing that annoys me though, is it's just it's like a blue, it's like just blue on canvas and I'm like, Oh, this probably means something that's super deep and whatever. And you like go up to the pocket and you're like, what is this called? And it's called blue.

Brit Barron: 8:43

And then I'm like, Oh, I don't get

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 8:45

Right, right,

Brit Barron: 8:46

I'm like, yeah, like

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 8:47

exactly exactly. I was like, okay, I have a BFA. Great. I don't understand.

Brit Barron: 8:54

Yeah, I'm like, blue. Oh, blue. Yeah,

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 8:58

Is it capital B

Brit Barron: 9:00

sorry. I

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 9:01

or It's like lowercase b with a period at the end. And I'm like, what are we doing here? How

Brit Barron: 9:06

anti power structure. Blue. It's anti

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 9:10

did you not get that?

Brit Barron: 9:12

Yeah,

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 9:13

I guess that's what the plaque is for.

Brit Barron: 9:15

Yeah, exactly. I Feel good about this. I feel like we're solving a lot of world

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 9:20

We are. what's hilarious is that to me, your book, I love that it's coming out in October because it's preparing everyone for Thanksgiving. 100%.

Brit Barron: 9:31

yeah, it's going to be a journey. Thanksgiving is going, Thanksgiving 2024 is absolutely going to be a journey.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 9:39

Okay, so Britt,tell about your book, Do You Still Talk to Grandma? when the problematic people in our lives are the ones we love. What's your elevator pitch?

Brit Barron: 9:53

Elevator Pitch is simple. I think, I started working on this book in 2021, and I was looking around and asking myself, what could be on the other side of cancel culture? Is this our best option towards liberation, towards freedom, towards transformation that we need to see in our country? And I was at dinner with a group of friends and one of our friends was saying that her grandma voted for Trump and some other folks at the table like gasped and were like, do you still talk to her? And she was like, my Nana, I do. And I was like, Oh we're canceling Nana's. We're okay. Like we're at the point in which we are just one, one false step from Nana. And she's out just it's Oh, Blake Lively got married at plantation. My grandma voted this way. Like they're out. Like we, we just became accustomed to this. I see one thing I don't like. And that person now, I get to block, unfollow, which on the internet, it works, whatever, I'm like you. I saw that coming into our real lives in a way that didn't feel like it was going to get us to where I truly think we need to go, which is, we need a way forward, and we need a way forward where everyone can come with

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 11:10

but, hear me out. Canceled Nana's The TV Series.

Brit Barron: 11:16

yeah

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 11:17

I would maybe watch that.

Brit Barron: 11:18

so that's what's next. I'm glad you brought That up.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 11:23

and like, watching Wheel of Fortune, and then Fox News? I don't know, whatever.

Brit Barron: 11:29

It's like they just keep trying to call like family members and it keeps being like this number is no longer

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 11:34

That's all the show is. Why can't I see his pictures?

Brit Barron: 11:39

Yeah, he's not on here anymore. Yeah, this is not a bad idea

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 11:43

My homosexual grandson. Why can't I see his picture?

Brit Barron: 11:49

I'll see any pictures from his gay marriage wedding. Yeah.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 11:52

Was thinking about Talking about this book. Like you can I show this to everyone cuz like I tab like a crazy person but I was just like I don't want to say too much because There's a lot to take from it as a reader. I could, there are so many things I could pinpoint that I want to address. So I'm going to, I'm going to limit it because I want our listeners to check it out. Where do I want to even start? Some of this stems from your conversation about religion and your relationship to religion. And something that struck me so early on in the book is the way you talk about people who say they're done with church, but then Brene Brown is their pastor.

Brit Barron: 12:35

Yeah

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 12:36

And I just recently had a really interesting conversation with the author, Elif Shafak. And she is so profound and speaks so articulately in the way she talks about the world. I literally said to her, Jokingly, have you ever thought about starting a religion? And she has such specific feelings about religion. And then we had this really interesting conversation about what sort of what people need, right? And what they need as representation. And it's what the point that you're making is, Maybe we're not in a church getting preached at by a preacher, but there's, we're still, people are still preaching things and we are following them.

Brit Barron: 13:14

Yeah, and it's part of this thing where we have this seeming need for external authority, and if we can't if we can't understand how to cultivate that same sort of trust in ourselves, then we are always going to put just a little bit too much trust in ourselves. And expectation and all sorts of things on these external authorities. And something I talk about, I've been talking about a lot lately. It's like, how can we decipher what is information from an expert? or wisdom from a guide, right? And how can we put on that lens and say Oh, this is a person who, studied neuroscience and is telling me that this kind of cold plunge will help me sleep. Great. That's not necessarily someone who needs to guide me throughout my life. And that's just information from an expert. But our Need to attach to these things and say okay, pastor John's all. Now I can take the responsibility off myself and I just have to do it. Like he says, or this religious leader or this influencer or this author. And I'm like, we need to take a lot more responsibility for ourselves. And I think it shows,

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 14:23

It's incredibly fascinating that's what you say, because in my conversation with Elif, She's on this quest to decipher the difference between information, knowledge, and wisdom.

Brit Barron: 14:39

okay. Love

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 14:39

I know, you two are like,

Brit Barron: 14:41

know.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 14:43

Um, and right, she's we live in an age of information and not enough wisdom.

Brit Barron: 14:49

period. I'm with

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 14:51

and unpacked from there. Of course, yes, absolutely. in so many other episodes of this podcast, I talk about binary thinking. And not just binary thinking, but a binary, the binary, capital T, capital B and why that's the world we live in. And something, again, not to say too much about your book, but something that you note in the book is that binary thinking creates a world where we can be right.

Brit Barron: 15:17

Yes, if you buy into this idea that there is a hard line between right and wrong, then you can convince yourself that you can get the right teachers, preachers, guides, the right information, the right life, the right ideology, the right everything, and exist only on the right side of the line. And not only is that false. But if you believe that, then that also means that someone can exist fully on the wrong side of the line, on the bad side of the line. And now we're able to say, Oh, not that person maybe did something bad or not that I don't like that person is bad. I am good. We are right. That person is wrong. And I think that's half of the dialogue we see today on the internet.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 15:56

Yes.

Brit Barron: 15:57

Yeah.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 15:58

I like, I say that with a sort of period and not an ellipses cause I'm one to use ellipses because I, even me in this platform, in this podcast, I like it's complicated to have nuanced conversations because of the way people are so hardline. And that the binary as an idea. It's in relation to, Nana, And if Nana voted in a way that was different than you, then period, she's done. And frankly, the book is called You Still Talk to Grandma, and I will say I don't talk to my dad. And. I'm also the first to say he's a bad dad. He's not a bad guy. I, I've said so many things about him that I appreciate that I get from him as in my personality that I learned from him. And there are all of those things. still exist. And yet he also causes me intense trauma and anxiety. And there are things that have happened in the last four years that, or I guess I should say, four and a half years ago where I was like, you know what, I've spent my whole life navigating X, Y, and Z and doing my best and putting the work in and the work was not being reciprocated. And that's where I was like, okay, I've done, I've tried. And that's the end of that. Your experience of listening to your friends cancelling Nana is, between your religious background and other circumstances in your own life, were you, what am I trying to ask you? I guess my point is did you relate to it in any specific ways?

Brit Barron: 17:43

Yeah, I think, So I think there's a lot of things, even in sitting down to write this book, I was like joking with my wife, I was like, I was confused for the first like half of the writing process. Because I'd be like, Yeah, but there are times where you should stop talking to people. And then, oh, there are times where you should sit down. And, oh, there are people there are people in my life who I don't talk to. There are family members who I don't talk to. There are, and then there are people who I didn't talk to for four years and were able to sit down and reconcile. Then there are people who I have been working it out with, all along. And so I'm like, oh, and then I remind myself, oh, I'm I'm falling into the same idea of what's the right answer? And I think where I had to settle on the end is I just think we need a different lens and framework for the conversation. So it's not that you have to stay in touch with every person you've ever met, but it is the reality of can we hold nuance as we work those things? It's everything you just said. Okay, this is a little bit, this is too much trauma and too much, and my work isn't being reciprocated in this relationship with my dad. However, what I can say moving on, Not a bad person, had these decisions, whatever, and you even being able to hold that framework is now going to address the way in which you carry on in the world. And something I say over and over in the book is our ability to access empathy and compassion for the people who are on the, quote, other side of the line, it doesn't change the work at hand, right? I'm a black queer woman, I'm always like, The patriarchy needs to come down. The homophobia needs to come down. The racism, the white Christian, white nationalism, that's like in politics. It all needs to, the work never changes, but our approach to the work, I think changes when we're able to hold that nuance. When I say I want liberation, for all people. And that includes the people who I believe are caught up in these oppressive systems, whether or not they are in those positions of power or not. And so I think it's. It's personal to me in that I've navigated this and landed on different sides of talking to people or not talking to people. And that's not the point of the book is not okay, here's a magical equation in here. If, your aunt Lisa is nice to you, but said one racist thing, then you can see her, but not during Black History Month. I'm like, there's no equation.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 19:48

But no, you're totally right. Yeah. And to be very clear, the book. It's not saying you still can talk to the people that are problematic in your life. That is not what the book is saying. It's really just, it's just addressing the fact that there are people that you love who are doing things that are challenging and problematic, and like, how do you navigate that? And there's a, that's a huge spectrum.

Brit Barron: 20:08

Totally. it's not always forever, I think, I'm a big proponent, I'm like, we make boundaries and we reassess. You draw and reassess and draw and reassess for the rest of your life, so.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 20:19

moving a little beyond family, uh, something you talk about in the book is progressive amnesia. Can you, for our listeners define what that means to you?

Brit Barron: 20:33

Yeah. Progressive amnesia is something happening that I witnessed in the world where typically progressive people learn something new and then remember don't remember a time before they ever knew it. They learned something on Tuesday and by Wednesday they are acting as if they were born with this information. And name, name a topic. I think one thing I talked about is like in 2020, particularly with like white women the anti racist books you ordered from Amazon haven't even gotten to your house yet. And you're like, full social justice warrior on, online. I can't believe you don't know this is racist. I'm like, but you just found out it was racist. And it really is hard when you're talking to someone who is, When we have these conversations and we act Oh, I actually was born with a bell hooks book in my hand. And you're like, Oh, fantastic. Great. Not everyone was right. Like I wasn't and I'm like very clear about that in the book. I used to think so many crazy things from my like religious upbringing.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 21:33

Something that it made me think of is, a year ago, probably almost exactly a year ago, because it's almost Halloween there was one infographic going around Instagram that talked about the origins of the word spooky and it was basically like, all the white people saying we shouldn't say the word spooky anymore, including me. Cause I saw that one infographic and then all of a sudden I was on a crusade to be like, we shouldn't say that word anymore.

Brit Barron: 22:05

Yeah.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 22:07

And of course it's I didn't hear that from a single one of my black friends or see any of them posting about that in particular. It was like, Us white people being like, we're woke. Look at us. We're not using that term anymore. And I don't want to say I felt silly. I guess I did feel silly because I was like, wait, why did I see one thing and suddenly decide that I needed to be on this crusade without, I guess I did do a little bit of research before I started having more of a conversation, but yeah, it's interesting that we, you know, we're We, I say, as like mostly white people and then other people that just follow random things on social media will just reshare things because we feel like that's we're these, warriors.

Brit Barron: 22:50

Yeah. And it touches on another issue, right? The name of the book is we'll do almost anything for a sense of belonging. We will stop at almost nothing to belong to a community, like a group, but this is in our like human DNA. And so when you feel like you have aligned yourself to this nebulous, progressive people on the internet. Yeah, when they're all sharing something you share it whether or not you know anything about what's going on politically whether or not you know Anything about history of the word you're like if everyone in my group is sharing this I need to share it or else I'll find myself on the outside of that group

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 23:25

And the story that does come up in the book, that I don't want to give away, but it's fascinating where there's a very specific example of someone who just wants to belong.

Brit Barron: 23:37

and that's so hard to argue I think there's a There's like a general fear sometimes I feel like in progressive circles that if we can Empathize with someone or understand why then that's us condoning it and I think it's those two are not that's not a mutually exclusive thing and one of the things about the the Voldemort I forget what they're called, but supporters is I like to think about even my own trajectory, right? And so being in this super religious upbringing and being in these churches and then finding myself internally, no longer believing in these things. No longer feeling like this is, but then being torn because I'm like I no longer cognitively like intellectually believe these things, but these are all of my friends. These are all of my people. And me saying out loud and. And physically embodying what I intellectually and cognitively believe will cost me something. It will cost me my job at the time because I was working at a church. It will cost me friends, it will cost me community, it will cost me relationships with my families. And so I think about that when I have people, when I talk to people sometimes where I'm like, I feel like intellectually you have already internally come to the conclusion that this is not a person who should be president. That this isn't something you support, that it's gone too far. But a question that is. I think really important to ask is what would it cost you to agree with me? What would it cost you to say those things out loud? Is your entire community based around this? Would it cost you friends? And again, this isn't me condoning or being like, Okay, yeah, so keep going. This is just me trying to find human empathy and a point of connection for why you are

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 25:20

And the thing they might lose is their own pride,

Brit Barron: 25:24

Hello?

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 25:25

Like it doesn't even need to be greater than that. No one li People do not like to admit that they're wrong.

Brit Barron: 25:31

No. And it's to quote our great James Baldwin, he always says, I imagine the reason people cling so tightly to hate is because they fear once the hate is gone, they'll be forced to deal with pain. So not only my pride, but I it's so hard for even me to be like, I participated in systems that were causing massive amounts of harm.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 25:50

hmm.

Brit Barron: 25:51

I'm like that that's, to this day, that sucks. So I'm like, yeah, if I'm, years down the road and being like, should I just dig my feet deeper in the sand? Because I do not want to deal with that. Totally.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 26:03

So we talked about Voldemort and I feel like the book could also be called, do you still read Harry Potter?

Brit Barron: 26:15

Yeah,

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 26:15

something else that you talk about is things that don't hold up. And I think Harry Potter, it's complicated because it's not that the story itself doesn't necessarily hold up, but it like contextually in the zeitgeist of the world doesn't hold up. Peter Pan was like life changing for me. And I can sit here and say, oh, the movie, the musical, so many things about it are tremendously problematic and harmful to communities, it's also that balance of but it also did change my life, and it affected me in ways that are very profound and Can you speak to that? The idea of people who have read Harry Potter, that changed their life. Peter Pan changed my life. But, like, all of a sudden, it's almost shameful to express your love of Harry Potter or to talk about how important Peter Pan is to me.

Brit Barron: 27:04

Sometimes we want a right answer, and I think the answer is just yes. You know what I mean? The answer is just completely yes. You want to talk about, oh, I love me some Harry Potter Harry Potter, the house down, boots I, forever and ever. And, there's not a, there's not a way to disentangle my experience and relationship to Harry Potter, and where I am in life. I've, I promise you it's that, it is that deep. That was, Single handedly, like the thing that got me through the beginning of the pandemic was like, I'm just gonna go back through like these comfort stories of mine. Is JK Rowling problematic or was Harry Potter impactful in my life? The answer is yes. So is Peter Pan problematic, did it positively impact your life? The answer is yes. And so I think even our wanting to disentangle of Oh, so was that important to me or was it bad? You know what I mean? Or is it good? Or what is it? Is it what all these things? I feel like it goes towards so much, again, nuance and one of the things I talk about in the book, I'm like, Do you know how hard I was writing for Kanye West and Dave Chappelle in the early 2000s? Those were my go like, I literally was like, oh, I'll never have they'll never be creatives that I will look up to more than these two men. I really like I really felt that. And to this day at graduation, if you ask me, I'm like, I don't know how to understand hip hop and the evolution of hip hop and my love for that without that album, at this point I'm like, I'll do anything to like, Not give Kanye West a platform and to not amplify anything he's saying and I just fundamentally I think we should just stop, putting him on places and giving him anyways, but yes in 2005 when graduate or whatever, and so I think what we are asking ourselves to do with some of these stories in this art is the same thing that we're Uncomfortable being forced to do with people in our lives that we love and our own stories. And so I think there are my understanding of gender. And the way gender exists in the world and can exist in the world and the beauty that holds in the way that it different ways it exists in the world. That's a, that's an evolution. That's a thing that I don't hold up. My, my movie doesn't hold up. And so I think when I can understand that, I think, okay now does everything I thought before I understood certain things about the world not count or and that's why I'm like, I just want us to get away from yes or no of you have to burn your Harry Potter books and pretend it never meant anything to you, or that's you supporting Jackie. I'm like, no, I don't even know why she goes out of her, it's every day she goes even farther out of her way to just I'm like, you could just be quiet, but and, oh, I, there's no way to go back in my life and make those books not be very important to me.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 29:53

It's also interesting because I think if she was dead not, not, I don't mean let's kill JK Rowling. If it was an, if it was an artist who had died long ago, I think people would almost see them as museum pieces and respect, in quotation marks the sort of history. But because she's living, I think people feel very differently about it. And that, again, is very interesting. Like, how come, do you not enjoy, are you not allowed to go to a museum and enjoy Picasso paintings?

Brit Barron: 30:21

Are we not allowed to travel in Europe? Again, it's it's our tendency to be like, I only consume art and I only do things, I only do things on the right side of the line. And I'm like, that doesn't mean that everything is okay and acceptable. And that doesn't mean that. We need to literally stop giving this woman a platform and we need to not listen to anything she's saying and actually counteract the harm that she's doing. But again, we have this idea that we're going to be able to create some kind of moral high ground. And what I can do is say I absolutely stand against everything that she has said in regards to gender in the past, however many years, since she went on this crusade and Harry Potter, who's just, starting in the seventh grade was just foundational to like my, okay. Evolution. And I don't know. I can't make that untrue.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 31:05

No, and I think that's important for everyone to just remember and that it's okay for art to transform your lives and then for us to learn more because we're always learning.

Brit Barron: 31:17

Yeah. Art and people. I'm like again I have so many friends whose grandmas are just like, you grow up with this idyllic sort of situation, and then she's like, Gay? No! You're like, oh my gosh, wait, you have been like, so transformative and influential my whole life, and now you're something else.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 31:36

You're like, but I'm still the same person that I was. Five years ago. You just know more about me.

Brit Barron: 31:43

totally. Yes, exactly.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 31:45

Okay. You have a lot of tattoos.

Brit Barron: 31:48

Yes.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 31:49

words like stay awake and remember. Are there, post writing this book, had you been inspired? Is there like a word that you're like, Oh, I would tattoo that on me now that I've written this book.

Brit Barron: 32:03

Oh, great question. I'm always down to get a tattoo. So if after this you're like, meet me in North Hollywood and let's go

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 32:10

Great. What are we a Matching something? What's it going to say?

Brit Barron: 32:13

Yeah, cute, little gays. I'm gay writing, you're gay reading.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 32:17

get, you'll get gay writing and I'll get gay reading.

Brit Barron: 32:19

Exactly. What's that? I'm like, oh, it's just me, gay writing. It's a little stick figure with a laptop. No, I don't have any current words in mind.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 32:28

That's okay. Just thinking of nanas, I just like

Brit Barron: 32:32

yeah, I just everyone writes like, send me the name of your grandma that you stopped talking

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 32:37

you'll just have all the cancelled grandma names on your arm.

Brit Barron: 32:40

it's like Louise, Mabel it's one thing I think about sometimes, and this is like so random, but my like full government name is Brittany, which is my parents just said in 1986 when I was born, that was the number one most popular girl name. They just said they got a book and did what's the most popular

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 32:58

give me number one.

Brit Barron: 33:00

Yes, my parents have like kind of unique names and they're like, Always wanted a non unique name, so I have the most non unique name, but I'm like, no one is like, in 2024, no one's having a daughter naming her Britney, so like, When I'm 80, like it's going to be like Mabel or like Ida Mae. Brittany's going to be like, I don't know why. That's so funny to think

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 33:20

I My sister and I talk about this a lot, because she, my niece is two and her name is Harper, and I'm like, one day she's going to be like Grandma Harper, and that's just so funny to me.

Brit Barron: 33:30

just so funny. Like Brittany, that's an old lady name. That's coming so quickly. This is. Yeah, I would like to know when the last Britney was

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 33:39

Well, and, and and older people names are circling back around again, A friend of mine named her son Hal, and my grandpa's name was Hal. And there's like another kid where her name was Iris and my mom's name was Iris. And that my mom is that old, but like just, it's just that, they're not named Brittany anymore. They're, so

Brit Barron: 33:59

But maybe they will be again soon.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 34:01

Yes. I'm curious. Just like how like nineties clothes are coming back.

Brit Barron: 34:05

I don't even I honestly can't even, and I don't want to even talk about I, Do you know how Ugh, so It's the low rise jeans. It's the low rise jeans that I can't Do you know how many days of school I sat in a desk like this? Trying to sit into a desk without bending any of your body or else your Like your butt crack would show was like traumatizing and I don't know why like we finally made it like we survived it

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 34:30

There are so many things that we survived that shock me.

Brit Barron: 34:34

With no phone

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 34:35

the last thing I want to talk about that was like really meaningful to me Again, I don't want to say too much about how it comes up in the book, but the power and the importance of imagination because for me as a theater person, as a storyteller, as a creative, my imagination for my whole life has been tremendously important to me and to the work that I do and just like for survival. And I don't know that I've ever thought about needing an imagination to imagine a better world. Or imagine, things that we can literally come up with that can make change, right? It's If you can imagine it, you can create something, right? Like even this podcast, right? I imagined it and it's now here. And that is, I think, when people think imagination, they think about playing pretend. They think about dragons. They think about and it's no it's about thinking about things that are. That don't exist.

Brit Barron: 35:42

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah and This isn't giving up too much, but what I, who I talk about in the book is Octavia Butler. Lifelong shout out to James Baldwin, Octavia Butler everyone. She's yes, no, literally, yeah. It's me saying I don't like sad and then talking about Octavia Butler. I'm like, okay, wait, maybe I do. Yeah, parables. She's,

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 36:06

Yeah.

Brit Barron: 36:06

Work for her entire life, but something that she, says and writes about, talks about, is the reality that all justice work is fiction writing. Like, all justice work is fiction writing, meaning, if you are imagining a world that doesn't yet exist, if you imagine a world without guns, or you imagine a world, without, homophobia, you imagine a world where all these things, without the gender binary you you are fiction writing. This is how justice work works. Like, when Dr. King said, oh. I have a dream and two little black girls, little white girls are playing on the playground. That was fiction writing. That's, you're making it, you're making up a world. And when we rely solely on taking the narratives that exist currently and just saying here's what's wrong with this one, or I don't like this one, or maybe I'll attach to this one, we lose so much of our ability to move forward in the work of justice, and in the work of freedom, and in the work of liberation. When, if we allow ourselves to imagine, imagine what relationships could look like if we can have hard conversations and disagree and still come to the table. Imagine, okay, what could forgiveness look like if I had to stop talking to this person, but I can still hold the reality that they're not a bad person, but that the way that they exist triggers things that I, whatever, it's harmful for me. But I can, what if, Harry Potter is really important to me and J. K. Rowling is, Actually transformed into the character of Voldemort that she wrote. What if, like, all these things can be true. And so we just have to hone our own imagination and understand those things. I say all the time If you would have tapped me at 16 and told me about the life I live now, I'd be like, not only is that, impractical that's impossible. There's no way. I have this like super cool wife and we live in LA and I'm a writer and we have this dog named Charles Barkley and we get up like this, you know what I mean? Like I have so imagined myself in the world. And I think The gift, just to bring it full circle to, gays, but the, I'm constantly saying the gift of queerness, being queer is the best thing that ever happened to me, not only because I love my life and I'm gay, but I was able to break down walls that I thought existed around relationships and sexuality, It was then a reminder to me and an introduction to me that every other wall that I thought was real probably wasn't either. And so I think we have an incredible ability and gift and a little bit of head start. In the queer community to say, Oh, I'm already able to reimagine outside of some common narratives. If we can just take that work further and further, I think we'll be in a good spot.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 38:36

Is there something that you're imagining these days?

Brit Barron: 38:41

Oh, I think in current world, like I do like to imagine a world that exists safely for women. I think I was just like talking to a friend who was like, I traveled all summer and she was like, and I traveled only to places that I felt would probably going to prioritize my physical safety. And I was like, Oh, I don't even know. I, it's good for me to start what if you have a world where women, all women like felt safe? That is the current world I'm imagining. And it'd be great.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 39:18

I love it. And from your imagination to the universe, we'll make it happen. And Barron, do you still talk to grandma? Everyone get your copy. It's out in time for Thanksgiving. It'll, it's not going to necessarily give you answers, but it will help you think in different ways and help you absorb and navigate conversations that are challenging and complicated and maybe give you a little empathy. Thank you for being here.

Brit Barron: 39:50

Thanks for having me.

jason-blitman_3_09-11-2024_100412: 39:51

This was so fun.

Brit Barron: 39:52

This is the best.

Jason Blitman: 39:53

Have

R. Eric Thomas: 39:55

deep cut playlist.

Jason Blitman: 39:57

watched Girls5eva?

R. Eric Thomas: 39:59

I have. I love it. I love when people are given parts that are 1000 percent in their sweet spots, one of the things I think is so fascinating about Sara Bareilles is that she is so supremely talented, she's a great actress, she's a great singer, obviously, she's a great writer, and I think because she got famous in this one lane as a singer songwriter, I Everything feels like a surprise. It's like, oh, she is a fantastic in into the woods. Well, of course she is. She's a theater kid. She's like, it's, it's kind of like when people are like, Ariana Grande is great in Wicked, and you're like, oh, weird that this incredibly famous celebrity has it. Like, no, the people that we know have it, that's the point. But then I guess so many people don't have it, and you're like, well, why am, why are you famous and why do I like you? So it's nice. It's a nice surprise.

Jason Blitman: 40:55

You're like, well, they're an international superstar. Ariana Grande knows what she's doing.

R. Eric Thomas: 41:00

yeah, and it like, and like, I fall into that trap. I'm just like, oh man, she's so great on SNL. She's like been in the grind for like 15 years, like from a young child. She has succeeded in all these different permutations of a music career. Weird that she's also very Charismatic, on the screen, playing this iconic part. Yeah, no, but then you have, you know, I'm sorry to all the Crowheads, but then you've got Russell Crowe in Les Mis, and you're like, look, this person has it, in some, like,

Jason Blitman: 41:37

He has it, but not that.

R. Eric Thomas: 41:39

not that, not that, that's, that is what's going on in my tombstone. He had

Jason Blitman: 41:44

But not that.

R. Eric Thomas: 41:47

Ann Patchett has it. And,

Jason Blitman: 41:49

that.

R. Eric Thomas: 41:50

and that. She's got it and that. And all of it. And everything. And a bag of chips. I love that I just come on here, like, to talk about Ann Patchett. Like.

Jason Blitman: 42:01

I don't understand the problem.

R. Eric Thomas: 42:03

Truly, I should just start a podcast. It's like today in Ann Patchett news. She was on the she was on the Ina Garten podcast, which is such a fascinating podcast. It's like really, it's a TV show.

Jason Blitman: 42:16

But only

R. Eric Thomas: 42:17

And then they like, well, yeah, well, like, I think they do record it for TV. It's, it's, it's on some channel. I don't, I don't know. I have three streaming services. I don't know where anything is. But um, But, you know, then I go to my parents house and they're like, have you heard of Roku? And NCIS is on 24 hours a day. And I'm like, no idea. But, so there's a, Ina Garten has a television show on some channel. Um, it's, you can only find it on a smart fridge. And, um, And Ann Patchett was on and I was like, I should throw like a watch party like it's a Super Bowl. But I, that I couldn't figure out, I don't have a smart, uh, fridge so I couldn't do it. So like listening to Ann Patchett and Ina Garten make, uh, I think Cherries Jubilee or something.

Jason Blitman: 43:00

What happens, you'll be like in the middle of watching it, and then you need to get an ingredient. And, does it, does the video stop when you open the fridge? Does it keep going? Can you still hear it?

R. Eric Thomas: 43:16

like in the back, you know, so you move the milk and you're like, Oh, you know, I want, I saw a comic the other day that was like the ideal. television screen has like the movie in one corner and then like the credits of everybody in the other corner and then like your your text messages and then a food delivery app and then something else and i was like yeah i get it that's very funny of this comedian shah's um i don't remember his last name australian comedian australian comic book comic artist but i want the opposite i want everything in my house all the walls in my house to just have you know, only murders in the building. So I can wander around, you know, like, um, Mrs. Havisham, like in my wedding dress, just looking at different walls and saying, Ah, that's what's going on with Selena Gomez today. I don't want to know anything

Jason Blitman: 44:05

question, this is important, do you see it as Is it like an LED wall? So it's almost as though the only mortars in the building is like wallpaper? It's like moving wallpaper? Or is it like a screen, like a TV on the wall?

R. Eric Thomas: 44:21

think it's the moving wallpaper. I want to live in, um, in the sphere and from Las Vegas.

Jason Blitman: 44:27

Oh! Yes, yes, yes.

R. Eric Thomas: 44:29

Yeah, I just want every surface, uh, to just be what I'm watching. And, I don't know what the purpose of that is, other than like, I do struggle with concentration, and so then if I am surrounded by my television show, I might be able to follow the plot. Um,

Jason Blitman: 44:46

You also get to solve the murder.

R. Eric Thomas: 44:49

so I'm like, I know who did

Jason Blitman: 44:51

And Selena Gomez is real, is life size. So you're like standing, you're chatting with her.

R. Eric Thomas: 44:55

she's standing in my walk in closet being like, Hey, what do you think of this outfit? And I'm like, I don't know. You got it.

Jason Blitman: 45:01

And you, you got it, and I'm just Steve Martin.

R. Eric Thomas: 45:04

I'm just Steve Martin. He's got it.

Jason Blitman: 45:09

He does have it, and he plays the banjo.

R. Eric Thomas: 45:12

Yes!

Jason Blitman: 45:13

and he has that.

R. Eric Thomas: 45:14

And he's a playwright. A very successful

Jason Blitman: 45:16

a playwright, and he's a novelist.

R. Eric Thomas: 45:18

Yeah, Shopgirl. And, uh, yeah, I don't know if he's ever directed anything. I'm sure he has. Maybe he directed the film of Shopgirl. But yeah,

Jason Blitman: 45:25

like in college.

R. Eric Thomas: 45:27

Yeah. He called Steve Martin in college

Jason Blitman: 45:30

directed in college.

R. Eric Thomas: 45:31

yeah, we're doing Godot. Um, but it's going to be set in a Parisian bakery.

Jason Blitman: 45:37

gonna be a comedy.

R. Eric Thomas: 45:38

That's gonna be a

Jason Blitman: 45:39

gonna sing Meadowlark.

R. Eric Thomas: 45:41

Ooh! Now that I would love.

Jason Blitman: 45:42

Weeach thing could bring us to something else. Like, that makes me want to talk to you about Patti LuPone and the things that are going on with her right now. Like, I justthere's so many things to talk to you about, Eric. I can't.

R. Eric Thomas: 45:53

it's, it's a shame that we don't find each other interesting in any way. Um,

Jason Blitman: 45:57

But I have to talk to you about books.

R. Eric Thomas: 45:59

ugh. Ugh. Must we

Jason Blitman: 46:05

Wewe don't have to. You could be So when Iyou know, when I ask what you're reading, you could probably know you're reading The Children. I don't know what you're

R. Eric Thomas: 46:13

Yeah, I'm, I've like, like, I'm, I'm Patty Labone. I'm reading Hell's Kitchen next Door. Um, I don't feel good about that. I have to say. That's, um, I don't wanna talk about it anymore. It's, it's dry, simple. Mia is fantastic in The Roommate, I have to say, Mia Farrow. So that's my

Jason Blitman: 46:27

Mia Farrow.

R. Eric Thomas: 46:28

Shout out to Mia Farrow. I was like, that was another one where I was sitting in the theater and I was like, wow, she's got it. And I was like, Eric, these people have been famous for 60 years, you don't think that she, like, she can do it? And I was like, I've seen Rosemary's Baby, I've seen, oh, was she in? Oh, I don't remember the name of that movie. It doesn't matter. Um, but she's great, obviously. She's Mary Farrow, but you forget sometimes. Julia Roberts is my, is my number one. Like, she is, oh, she is my number one. Like, my preeminent diva. I have a friend, Thomas Schenacki, he's obsessed with Kate Winslet in the way that I'm obsessed with Julia Roberts. And for his 40th birthday, he invited all of his friends to send him illustrations of Kate Winslet that they had done. Like, original, we all had to draw Kate Winslet. And then he had this like art opening as a as a birthday party of all these illustrations, beautiful people, you know, it's so telling which which Kate that people choose. And let me tell you, when it comes to drawing, I don't have it. I don't have it at all. I don't.

Jason Blitman: 47:31

everyone can draw. Anyone can

R. Eric Thomas: 47:33

Oh, except R.

Jason Blitman: 47:35

No, whatever, it doesn't have to be, it doesn't mean, it was whatever it was. That's

R. Eric Thomas: 47:40

stop this Montessori nonsense. I don't wanna hear it.

Jason Blitman: 47:45

I'm not saying you're getting an award. But it is art.

R. Eric Thomas: 47:51

Oh, no. I'm sorry. I, like, I, look, I believe every, I believe, you know, if you're an artist, you're a writer, if you write, you're an artist, if you create, accept me. Um, that was, it was bad. You should say all the

Jason Blitman: 48:06

I guess if I, when I do your introduction, I will not say an artist.

R. Eric Thomas: 48:13

My, my, my next guest is not a singer, not an artist, um, a, uh, not a from scratch, uh, chef, uh, always needs a recipe.

Jason Blitman: 48:25

can you play an instrument?

R. Eric Thomas: 48:26

cannot play an instrument, bought a piano during, no, not at all, bought a piano during the, um, during the pandemic, did not learn how to play it. Not a strong swimmer. Um, This is, uh, this is my Tinder profile. Some people are like, you know, you know, no femmes or whatever, and I'm like, Oh, you can be whoever you want, but me? Not a strong swimmer, just so you know.

Jason Blitman: 48:52

Also, we've been talking for 24 minutes.

R. Eric Thomas: 48:56

I love that you're like, here's a three hour version of my podcast. People are like, delete.

Jason Blitman: 49:02

Eric, I would talk to you all day, every day. Our Eric Thomas, thank you for being my guest guest reader today.

R. Eric Thomas: 49:11

for having me. Sorry I didn't mention a single book.

Jason Blitman: 49:15

What are you reading?

R. Eric Thomas: 49:16

I'm rereading The Secret Life of the American Musical, black Liturgies by Cole Arthur Riley. It's a book of meditations poems, um, prayers that, Arthur Riley comes from a black evangelical, I believe, spiritual tradition. And she was really looking for, um, liturgies, meditations that didn't, um, didn't. weren't always steeped in white supremacist thinking or violent, rhetoric or anti Black rhetoric. And so she sort of put together this book, um, that, that, um, is that that offers that it offers a sort of respite. So that's really great for me as a person. And also, you know, for it's I'm thinking about it with a as a creative for creative project. So that and then Oh, I just got the new Alan Hollinghurst our evenings. But I haven't started it, but I just love Alan Hollinghurst.

Jason Blitman: 50:06

Okay, this episode is coming out the week of Thanksgiving.

R. Eric Thomas: 50:10

Oh, yay!

Jason Blitman: 50:11

Is on the episode with Brit Barron, Do You Still Talk to Grandma?

R. Eric Thomas: 50:17

Yes, so great.

Jason Blitman: 50:18

A great, um, book for the week of Thanksgiving, because I certainly have very complicated familial relationships to deal with on Thanksgiving. Um, do you have any advice for the children who might, uh, have, who might struggle at the Thanksgiving table?

R. Eric Thomas: 50:34

Yeah, I think, you know, I love, I love Barron's book and I get a lot, you know, I write a nationally syndicated advice column and so I get a lot of questions about family, like, strife

Jason Blitman: 50:45

person I could talk to right now. This is, I had to have you on this episode. Yeah.

R. Eric Thomas: 50:51

things I've learned, I don't have family strife at Thanksgiving but I do have my year, I just had my, my annual, we have to, um, think through Thanksgiving therapy appointment, because it is just a lot of different, it's, it's all the tentacles of the past, it's the present, it's the person that you were, and the person that the people want you to be, and the person that you are, are, are now, um, all in, around one table. And so I like to just think of it as like, this is just one meal, and you don't have to say everything that you're going to say at one meal. It's like one of those dinner parties where people were interesting and they could smoke all the time. Just pretend that you're sitting there at the table smoking and you don't have to, you don't have to engage. You just, you can simply say, Oh, I don't know. You know what, like, or, or I don't have a comment on that. And sometimes people will goad you, people will pull you into all kinds of drama, but this, a meal is a, is a finite amount of time. And so it's important to have a space. Either in the house or in your life where you sort of go and you decompress and you recharge. And then it's also just important to, to, to know that this is just today. And you don't have to solve anything today. In fact, you probably shouldn't. You should probably just enjoy the food if you can. And, and then go back to a place that feeds you.

Jason Blitman: 52:14

is a controversial take, but I'm a firm believer in the difference between family and relatives.

R. Eric Thomas: 52:23

Yes.

Jason Blitman: 52:24

I don't think one is required to put themselves in a position that, It makes them feel unsafe emotionally or physically or whatever. And you don't ever, in my opinion, don't ever need to fall into the trap of, well, but they're my family. It's like, no, no, no, those are your relatives.

R. Eric Thomas: 52:45

Yeah. People earn their place in your life and you earn your place in other people's lives and, and I think it seems coarse sometimes to say that, um, but it's not like you're earning your place at a job or, or earning a part. It's simply saying that this is a two way street, this is a partnership, um, and simply, uh, shared genetics are not, They're not handcuffs. And so there are people that you may be like, that person, we share some DNA. And, but they don't have a place in my life. And, and that is that is okay, you know, or they don't have a place in my life right now, because they're not putting, we're not putting in the same thing in, into the, into the pot. And we are not, and they haven't earned the trust that is needed. The vulnerability, that family affords. Um, it's a relationship and it has to be constantly tended.

Jason Blitman: 53:40

Well, it's sort of funny because, while we were joking about having it but not having that, there's something very true in that statement, right? Like, those people have it, as in your DNA, but they don't have that,

R. Eric Thomas: 53:58

Now that.

Jason Blitman: 53:59

right? And like, so it's okay that you don't in turn, you know, want to spend your evening with them and go spend your time with people who you do want to spend your time with.

R. Eric Thomas: 54:08

Exactly. You know, and I think it's absolutely okay to say the thing. To be like, You know, people, a lot of times people use family relations to like guilt you into doing something like, well, you have to come, you know, we're family. And I think it's okay to say, Hey, Aunt Hildy, I, you know, I don't know that we really have a lot in common. And it seems like every time that we get together, you want to talk to me about politics, or whatever, or my life or whatever it is. And that's not something that I am comfortable with. And that's not something that I do. voluntarily, um, even with people that I am close to. And so to be close to me, um, I, I need to have, um, other kinds of conversations. Is that something that you are interested in doing? And if they can't do that, then okay, then you, we don't have to have it.

Jason Blitman: 54:59

Bye, LD.

R. Eric Thomas: 55:01

Bye, Hildy. Aw, Hildy.

Jason Blitman: 55:03

I wonder how she's doing. I wonder what she's reading. Um, okay, so that's my hot take, is that family is family and relatives are, are different. Um, do you have a hot take? What are you reading? Reading. Anything?

R. Eric Thomas: 55:29

I don't, like, I'm really trying to stay out of it. My hot take is that, no, this isn't even a hot take. I don't, I feel like I'm like hot take deficient right now. I'm like, I'm like in a monk like space where I'm like, it is

Jason Blitman: 55:42

You're like, I want the cold plunge.

R. Eric Thomas: 55:44

I'm on the cold plunge. I was, I'm like, uh, during that Instagram trend, 20 years late, I'm like, yeah, I'm going to sit. I think my hot take is, no, I don't have anything. It's all, you know, it's like, it's like we're in this weird political season and I'm just like, I don't want to say a thing. Um, yeah. My hot take is that those Stanley cups are not that interesting. Um, there's so, there are so many different vessels for water right now and I bought them all and I'm like, I'm like, What are we doing here? Like, this is just water. Um, that's, that's a tepid take. Oh.

Jason Blitman: 56:22

Cause they play for the Stanley Cup?

R. Eric Thomas: 56:24

They do. That's true. I have heard that as a

Jason Blitman: 56:28

At first when I thought you were talking about it, I was like, I am shocked that this is what we're talking about now. But yeah, the Stanley Cup is too big. are you gonna, you have to hold it with three hands. You have your whole team has to hold it up in order to drink out of it.

R. Eric Thomas: 56:43

Yeah, here's my hot take for the auto industry. Okay, first of all, go out of business. Second of all, why are the cup holders not, so small? They don't hold, we as a, we as a society have built a gluttony into our core beings. Every cup we have is 65 gallons. I can't put it in my cup holder. Now it's rolling around on the side in my passenger seat. I'm afraid I'm going to hit a bump. It's going to dive into the, the footwell. Get lodged under the, um, gas pedal, like I'm in, or the brake pedal, like I'm in, uh, a Final Destination, and that's how I go. Stanley? Stanley? Are you trying to kill me? Stanley? This is, this is the

Jason Blitman: 57:21

that. See, listen, we all have our hot takes. And also, All your garbage isn't going to fit in that teeny tiny cupholder. Where are you going to put the garbage?

R. Eric Thomas: 57:28

This is my, well, I bought a little garbage system, um, in my, for my car. It hangs on the back of my passenger seat, and it has a little container for my little tissues, and some wet wipes, and uh, sanitizer, and something else, I can't remember. Oh, floss! I like to keep floss in my car. Um, because, you never, you know, because sometimes you go someplace and you eat, and then you're like, hmm, I don't want this in my

Jason Blitman: 57:52

Yeah.

R. Eric Thomas: 57:54

And,

Jason Blitman: 57:54

oh I have green onion in my teeth.

R. Eric Thomas: 57:56

Right, you know, and I'm not a big like, let me put my finger in there. Excuse me. Excuse me. Um,

Jason Blitman: 58:02

We're not on the

R. Eric Thomas: 58:03

um, yeah.

Jason Blitman: 58:06

Save that for the subway.

R. Eric Thomas: 58:08

What is this a Joe Rogan podcast? No, I'm not gonna put my fingers in my mouth. But it's but then it's a little trash can. And I love it. I

Jason Blitman: 58:16

did you get

R. Eric Thomas: 58:16

My Amazon. I know. But you can get it also some other suspicious

Jason Blitman: 58:24

great local shop.

R. Eric Thomas: 58:26

Yeah, you know, your local, your local bag maker can construct one for you. Just walk around the corner.

Jason Blitman: 58:33

I always try to shop local. And they never have what I need.

R. Eric Thomas: 58:38

Yeah, and I think, you know, sometimes it's like, It's about impulse versus effort, and so I do, you know, I'm a little bit of an impulse shopper, and I'm like, I need a trash bag right now, it's 3am, I need to order it. And so sometimes I'm like, I'm gonna make my little list, and then I will go find that thing. But, yeah, it's sometimes you, like, you gotta go to like, a suburban mall to get it? I don't know. And like, you know, or Target. Mm.

Jason Blitman: 59:05

And sometimes you're like, wait, are you a mini target? Are you a medium target? Are you a regular target? Are you a super target? And then they don't know it. You don't know what kind of target you're walking into. So they don't have the thing. But the other one does.

R. Eric Thomas: 59:19

I don't like that mini target. I don't think that's a real thing. I don't like it. I don't want to be in here.

Jason Blitman: 59:23

you remember how you said eight minutes ago that you didn't have a hot tank?

R. Eric Thomas: 59:26

I know,

Jason Blitman: 59:26

had like

R. Eric Thomas: 59:26

I was like, you got me all riled up.

Jason Blitman: 59:33

Someone put him in a cold tub!

R. Eric Thomas: 59:35

Please plunge me. Ay yi

Jason Blitman: 59:38

also, it says that on your Tinder profile too.

R. Eric Thomas: 59:42

Punch me! Yeah, it's so weird that I'm not getting any hits. Um, yeah.

Jason Blitman: 59:50

Oh my god, I could talk to you all day, but you have to go turn off your internet.

R. Eric Thomas: 59:55

I do. I have to go turn off my internet and put myself into a tub,

Jason Blitman: 59:58

r. Eric Thomas, thank you for being my guest gay reader today. You're the best.

R. Eric Thomas: 1:00:02

Thank you. You're the best. This is so

Jason Blitman: 1:00:04

So fun. Anyone who's listening, anyone who's still listening, Eric was on a previous episode of Gays Reading for his own book. congratulations. The best is over. Go check that out. Go follow

R. Eric Thomas: 1:00:17

in

Jason Blitman: 1:00:17

on all the places. It's out in paperback, so go buy it. It's so great. He also reads the audiobook, which is so great. Check out all of his content. Sign up for his newsletter. And what else?

R. Eric Thomas: 1:00:28

That's all, all you, and like, you know, if you can, you can read my advice column, Asking Eric, in, um, over a hundred newspapers around the, uh, around the country.

Jason Blitman: 1:00:35

Over a hundred newspapers!

R. Eric Thomas: 1:00:38

I know, she is in the burgeoning field of print journalism, baby! Syndication, she syndicated like a Golden Girls episode.

Jason Blitman: 1:00:47

It could just keep going, and we still haven't talked about Patti LuPone. Um, alright, everyone go buy the annotated Belcanto.

R. Eric Thomas: 1:00:55

Yes, that is what I'm here to promote. The Annotated Bel Canto. Perfect holiday gift.

Jason Blitman: 1:01:01

Perfect holiday gift. Happy Thanksgiving, Eric.

R. Eric Thomas: 1:01:04

Happy Thanksgiving

Yeti Stereo Microphone & FaceTime HD Camera-3: 1:01:06

Thank you, Brett. Thank you, Eric. Everyone check out. Do you still talk to grandma by Brett Baron out now? Wherever books are sold. Have a wonderful rest of your week. Happy Thanksgiving, everybody. And see you next week. Bye.