0:04

Gays reading, where the greats drop by. Trendy authors tell us all the who, what, and why. Anyone can listen, cause we're spoiler free. Gays reading. From poets and stars, to book club picks. Where the curious minds can get their fix. So you say you're not gay, well that's okay. There's something for everyone. Gays reading.

Jason Blitman: 0:33

Hello! This is Gays Reading. I'm your host, Jason Blitman, and it is our season finale! Welcome back to those who have listened or watched before, and for those of you who are new, I am so happy to have you here. You can find Gays Reading wherever you get your podcasts, and if you like and subscribe, not only will you be the first to know when a new episode drops, but it also really helps with the algorithm so that other people who like books, who love books, or are interested in conversations can more easily find it. Find Gays Reading. And if you are so inclined to leave a five star review over on Apple Podcasts, that would mean so much. This is a super independent podcast. I do it for the love. again, with the algorithm, The more love a podcast gets in terms of stars and reviews, the more it is pushed out there to other listeners. So I really appreciate it. And thank you in advance. It means so, so much to me, uh, that you would do that and that you were here. And, uh, I'm, I'm grateful. So thank you y'all. Today's guest has it and that, and for context, you should go back and listen to the most recent R Eric Thomas conversation, uh, because it is the one and only Ann Patchett. She's on the show today. Uh, her full and proper bio is in the show notes. This conversation, as well as many others, are on the GaysReading YouTube page. And I have to say, there are a few faces that Anne makes that are well worth watching. So if you, uh, are listening at some point, it might just be worth a little, a quick little watch. And while you're over on the YouTube channel, if you could subscribe over there as well, That would be fantastic. And if you're watching on the Parnassus channel, you could pop on over to wherever you get your podcasts and like and subscribe to Gay's Reading because we are everywhere. You could find us on Instagram at Gays Reading and find all of the places where we have other fantastic authors and other great conversations. There have been so, so many incredible folks who have been on the show and you should go check out the little back catalog. so Anne and I talk about her new annotated version of Bel Canto and then we talk about some books that we would recommend as gifts. And then at the end of the episode, after Anne leaves, I share my most memorable books of the year, which, might also make for good book and gift recommendations. Speaking of gifts, this is a reminder that I'm partnering with Aardvark Book Club to provide an exclusive introductory discount. New members in the United States can join today and enter the code GAYSREADING at checkout to get their first book for only 4 plus free shipping. So if you go to aardvarkbookclub. com, that's two A's. Aardvark is a weird word to spell, but the link is in the show notes, so no excuses. You could just go click right there. And when you check out, enter the code GAYSREADING, first book, 4. Cheapest book. around. Um, this is ridiculous. I'm so happy that all of you are here. Thank you for being here. and now on to the show. welcome to Gay's Reading.

Ann Patchett: 3:50

Thank you.

Jason Blitman: 3:51

do you know what my heart has been doing all week? Fluttering.

Ann Patchett: 3:58

Hopefully only once. One flutter per person.

Jason Blitman: 4:02

It fluttered as many times it was stated in the book. So, lots and lots. I've done lots of heart fluttering. I think I'm most excited that you came out with this annotated Bel Canto and that you are here on the show today because it gave me an excuse to read the book. Because as you know, for me, if a book if a book hits its pub day, it's old for me.

Ann Patchett: 4:26

Oh.

Jason Blitman: 4:27

So I just have stacks and stacks and stacks of books that come out between like now and July and

Ann Patchett: 4:32

me about it.

Jason Blitman: 4:32

I can't keep up right now. I know I'm preaching to the choir. And so I was like, wait, an excuse to read Bel Canto. Finally, it's been sitting on my shelf for so long. And I got to read it. And that was the best part.

Ann Patchett: 4:45

That's so funny. You know, for so much of my life, everybody was like Belcanto, Belcanto. And now, like, there, there's a whole generation of people who have no idea that I wrote that book and they don't have any idea that the book exists. Like, you know, they'll read Dutch House, they'll read Commonwealth, Tom Lake, but they're like, Belcanto, what's that?

Jason Blitman: 5:06

and now here we are. Yes, we're cycling back. My first and Patchett was Tom Lake.

Ann Patchett: 5:12

Oh, that's good.

Jason Blitman: 5:14

I'm a theater kid. It meant a lot to me. I knew those people. I know those people. We have to talk about R. Eric Thomas, because I've had R. Eric on Gay's Reading twice now, and we spend so much time talking about Ann Patchett.

Ann Patchett: 5:29

I have real feelings for him. And you know what? here's the thing about Eric. Like when we finally met, I was like, okay, we're going to have something real. But he, he won't pick up the thread with me at all.

Jason Blitman: 5:44

I think he's maybe nervous.

Ann Patchett: 5:50

extend the hand of genuine friendship. Like I like you.

Jason Blitman: 5:55

He is the salt of the earth and the

Ann Patchett: 5:57

And he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Bye. So much, so

Jason Blitman: 6:01

Honestly, I think he's too nervous. 100%. But we love Eric Thomas. He's and he's so talented. Um, and if you go back and listen to any of the episodes that he's been on on Gay's Reading, you can also hear a lot about Ann Patchett because we talk a lot about you.

Ann Patchett: 6:19

Did, did he tell you about our event at the church where like everyone was seated and we, we went down the aisle arm and arm. It was such a moment of my life. It was so beautiful.

Jason Blitman: 6:31

so funny. Okay, Bel Canto. First, I wish, I couldn't believe I didn't read it, and now, of course, very high on my list of questions for you that you don't have to answer, and I know you're not going to want to answer because it's not fair, is what is your Belcanto? What has been staring at you on your shelf for years and years that you can't believe you haven't read yet?

Ann Patchett: 6:51

Oh boy I'm gonna answer that without thinking because it's so hard, but it's an interesting answer. I just finished reading Wide Sargasso Sea by Jean Rhys. And that's one of those books and I have all sorts of books like this that I think everyone in the world, except for me, has read Wide Sargasso Sea. And I've just got to do it because I read so many galleys that I'm trying really hard to say every three or four books, I'm going to read something I want to read. So then I read Wide Sargasso Sea and I can't find anyone who's read it. I'm like going door to door in my neighborhood going, um, excuse me, White Sargasso Sea. And everybody's like, yeah, no, it's been on my bookshelf for 30 years. I've

Jason Blitman: 7:40

Well, either that or I read it 30 years ago.

Ann Patchett: 7:43

that's true. Okay. The other book that is on my bookshelf right now. And I keep thinking every time I go on a long trip, I'm like, I'm going to take this.

Jason Blitman: 7:52

hmm.

Ann Patchett: 7:52

Uh, Lonesome Dove. I've never read Lonesome Dove, and I've read a lot of Larry McMurtry back in the day. My best friend Patrick Ryan said it could, like, last year he read Lonesome Dove, and he said it changed his life.

Jason Blitman: 8:08

Oh,

Ann Patchett: 8:08

So fantastic. you,

Jason Blitman: 8:10

Um, I have not, no, so I'm a new reader. I just started reading in like 2019 and now, and

Ann Patchett: 8:19

work cut out for you.

Jason Blitman: 8:20

I can't stop and I host a book podcast. So if it, if something came out before 2019, I probably haven't read it or, you know, I read it in order to have a conversation like

Ann Patchett: 8:30

That's adorable. Okay.

Jason Blitman: 8:31

So my backlog is very long, but for me, one of the ones, Belcanto and Olive Kittenridge are the two that I'm like, I have to read. I've read all the Lucy books and I loved them. And so I know that the Olive books I will

Ann Patchett: 8:43

And let me tell you, because I do believe the world is divided into Team Olive and Team Lucy, and I am totally Team Lucy.

Jason Blitman: 8:52

Interesting.

Ann Patchett: 8:53

all of Liz's books. I adore her. I wish I was her. She's, she's fabulous. Um, but the Lucy books are definitely my favorite.

Jason Blitman: 9:05

All right. Well, once I read the Olive books, I'll get back to you. for me coming into Belcanto with fresh eyes. What I found so interesting was I was reading it post COVID

Ann Patchett: 9:15

Exactly. Exactly.

Jason Blitman: 9:18

in a time of isolation and having a collective experience with a group of humans. What, what did you feel in that relationship coming back to it? Because I know once you finish a book, it is in the world and you don't touch it again. But you have revisited now.

Ann Patchett: 9:36

So, wait, I have to ask you a quick question though. Did you read Bel Canto and then, like, thumb through the annotated edition? Okay, alright. Um,

Jason Blitman: 9:45

Because I read, and I read the introduction. I knew that I wasn't supposed to read the annotated version if I haven't read it yet.

Ann Patchett: 9:51

Okay, okay. Good, good man.

Jason Blitman: 9:54

I do my homework. Yeah.

Ann Patchett: 9:55

Um, so, the BBC did a book club during COVID. Belcanto. It was, it was some big radio BBC thing. And, and when they called and asked me about it, I was like, Oh, that's smart. That's a really, really good COVID book. So I would say that's when I had my moment of thinking Belcanto plus COVID. It wasn't what I was thinking when I was doing the annotation.

Jason Blitman: 10:26

Sure. And then you reflected on it in that moment. But did that mean, did you, when you were doing the annotation, did that impact you at all or no? It just was completely unrelated.

Ann Patchett: 10:37

unrelated. Yeah. I wasn't, I wasn't thinking about it. I wasn't thinking about anything in terms of like present day or history, except, and I don't think that I put this in the annotation cause it's so dark, but somebody said to me, Oh, you know, the thing about Belcanto is they, they wouldn't, people don't hold hostages anymore. You know, they just, they just kill everybody. Um, that, that, that is from the period of time in which the book was written. And that's a super depressing thought, but I think very true.

Jason Blitman: 11:15

Yeah. The collective experience of like hierarchy going away. When you, when, when you take time and things fade and I'm getting ahead of myself. For anyone who's like me. And hasn't read Belcanto yet, or hadn't read Belcanto, or let's say there are a few people who are listening and they haven't read Bel Canto yet. Do you have an elevator pitch for Belcanto?

Ann Patchett: 11:37

Oh yeah, sure. I do. I have an elevator pitch for all my books and that's one of the great things once they hang around, you know, uh, for a while you get it, you get it really honed. So it's, it's a group of. International, powerful people in an embassy gathered together for a party. They're taken hostage, they don't have a common language, and the common language first is dealt with through a translator, and then the next level it is dealt with through art, and then finally it's dealt with through love.

Jason Blitman: 12:12

Mm,

Ann Patchett: 12:13

How about that? It's good, right? It only took me 24 years to come up with

Jason Blitman: 12:18

though I would argue there are lots of languages in the book. I mean, not argue, I don't need to argue with

Ann Patchett: 12:24

No, no. I mean, you're talking about my elevator pitch, right?

Jason Blitman: 12:28

Yes, I guess,

Ann Patchett: 12:29

sentences.

Jason Blitman: 12:30

I know, I know. You said, you said language and then art and then love. with a bunch of others scattered in there too, I would say. Roxanne, one of our hostages, one of our protagonists, like, one of our protagonists, It's said that she sort of drifts in and out of resembling the famous soprano that she's known as, right? Because I think when we're in a situation, when you're sort of living one, you can't live that full self 24 7, right? As the

Ann Patchett: 13:00

right, right.

Jason Blitman: 13:03

I'm curious for you, what does Ann Patchett need to resemble her full self?

Ann Patchett: 13:10

Um, it's all in my head

Jason Blitman: 13:12

Mmm.

Ann Patchett: 13:13

and I really think of like, okay, I'm going to be her now. And I had something happen. This was maybe a week ago and it was library gala weekend here in Nashville. I host the patrons party at the bookstore and on Friday it was James McBride. Really great. And then Saturday, the library, huge gala, lots of events, public facing, and I'm, and I'm Ann Patchett. I mean, I'm going to those things. But then on Saturday morning, so in between the two library events that I was doing, I went to a celebration of life party for a friend's father. And this is a friend of mine. And we've been friends since seventh grade. People who were at that party, I knew family, my friend's family, but also lots of people from high school. And I went to that party. Well, it turns out there were a lot of people that I also didn't know. And I got. And, and I was like, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not her. You know, it's like, these are my friends and this is a memorial celebration. And, and I'm, I'm not coming as, as her. I'm coming as myself. And I found it really shook me in a way that. Like if I'm in the grocery store and people come in, you know, it's like, okay, that's great. That's fine. But something about going back to childhood, to these childhood friends, um, and getting mobbed not by them, but like by people they were with or whatever. Um, and then I was like, Oh, wait, I've got to go. Cause now I've got to go home and put on black tie and show up at the library gala and, you know, do that whole thing that, that really messed with my mind.

Jason Blitman: 15:12

Yeah. Mr. Hosokawa in the book, another one of our protagonists, talks about, about the private life. Mm Right. And so I imagine there is that difference between the Ann Patchett public figure and, as I heard you say on another podcast recently, Ann Van Devender, who has to do the laundry. Right. And like, that's a very different thing. and, and I'm sure a tricky balance.

Ann Patchett: 15:41

You know, it, it's fine. It's been going on for a long time and I, and I'm good and I can roll with it. It was, it was almost more interesting that I got caught off guard.

Jason Blitman: 15:55

Mm.

Ann Patchett: 15:56

That's the part that surprised me. I was like, Oh, I didn't know that I was capable of still feeling this way because I am her so much of the time and I roll with it and it's fine and people are lovely and all of that.

Jason Blitman: 16:11

Sure. I mean, I think what's in my brain is like, imagining, I don't want to say imagining you in a hostage situation, but imagining like, that's sort of what Roxanne is experiencing, right? She's like, I just want to be my private self right now because we're all under duress at the moment. And

Ann Patchett: 16:28

right, right,

Jason Blitman: 16:29

we're all just people, you know? Yeah.

Ann Patchett: 16:32

interesting. So, so because of Belcanto, I, I met Renee Fleming and, um, we are very good friends. And the thing that always blows my mind about Renee is she is always Renee Fleming.

Jason Blitman: 16:48

Hmm.

Ann Patchett: 16:48

Always. And

Jason Blitman: 16:50

you think that's a performer thing?

Ann Patchett: 16:52

I don't know, but like if she's walking around her apartment, she's wearing some unbelievably, well, it's actually not an apartment anymore. Now she lives in a big house in Washington, but you know, she's wearing some unbelievably artful Japanese shrug. And when she Goes to Kinko's, you know, she, she does it. She just, there's never a moment. When she doesn't present as herself

Jason Blitman: 17:24

Yeah. So what you're saying is maybe Roxanne is perfectly happy being Roxanne the whole time.

Ann Patchett: 17:28

yeah, maybe, which is something that I didn't know when I wrote that book. So many things that I didn't know. I wish I had been friends with Renee Fleming and then I could have written the book.

Jason Blitman: 17:39

Sure. so one of the early plot points of the book is that, uh, essentially what is all happening is Mr. Hosokawa is, is at a party where he is the guest of honor and he is, Inspired to go because this opera star is going to be there. This opera star, Roxanne Koss. Who would your Roxanne Koss be? What would get you to the party?

Ann Patchett: 18:03

Oh, that's interesting. Um, like who could they use as bait? Um, well it would be people, people that I know, you know, like, I have gone to a lot of, a lot of parties because of Rene. I have gone to a lot of things and places, including Russia, you know, that I wouldn't normally find myself in except that I was with Rene. Um, I'm trying to think of like somebody that I, I know Yo Yo Ma. I would, I would go anywhere, you know, to see Yo Yo Ma, to see Emmanuel Axe. Um, yeah, it's, it's classical music for me.

Jason Blitman: 18:47

interesting. Okay, cool. What?

Ann Patchett: 18:57

ago or whenever it was, I went to see it in Broadway and, and after the show, They asked me to wait and the cast stuck around and I talked to everybody and we all took pictures. They were very sweet. I kept saying, I didn't write the play. I totally didn't write the play. You know that. But Jim Parsons was fantastic. And he, we were standing there talking and he said, um, Did you play Emily? And I said, no. And he said, but you were an actress. And I said, no. And he said, how did you know all of that? I was like, you know, I'm, I'm a writer and I make stuff up. he said, how many are towns? Have you seen? I said, this is the first time I've ever seen the play. I know because I read it. I read it. I read it, but I had never seen it. And I said, and what's more than that? I don't own a television. And this day is the first time I've ever seen you act. And

Jason Blitman: 19:59

Wow.

Ann Patchett: 20:00

he put his hands on my shoulders. He was like, I have been looking for you for so long.

Jason Blitman: 20:07

Oh my God,

Ann Patchett: 20:08

I mean, it was just, it was so real for him to be released from, from the roles that he is famous for. And I was like. All I know about you as an actor. is what I just saw you do. And you're amazing.

Jason Blitman: 20:28

How special?

Ann Patchett: 20:29

it was really beautiful. I have no idea how I just went down that rabbit hole, but

Jason Blitman: 20:34

that's okay.

Ann Patchett: 20:35

Jim Parson's name all

Jason Blitman: 20:37

I love, we love, the, the book opens with this concept of that. There's a kiss, and it's remembered by lots of folks, and they also probably didn't see it because it was in darkness. And there's this idea of remembering something that we haven't actually seen. Is there something that you feel like you remember that you didn't actually see?

Ann Patchett: 21:00

How would I know?

Jason Blitman: 21:02

Oh.

Ann Patchett: 21:03

Right. Cause I, I mean, yeah, I think. I think that that's really true. And it's something my sister and I talk about all the time. My sister is three and a half years older and I call her my external hard drive. Uh, but we go back to each other and we're like, that thing, did that happen? Or do I just remember that it happened? Because you get to a certain point and you think I've been living on this memory for such a long time. Did that happen? I don't know.

Jason Blitman: 21:36

Yeah, or do I actually have a memory of it? Or did I see the photographs and that is what is replacing, or that's filling in the space of a memory? That's what happens to

Ann Patchett: 21:47

There's a fantastic book called Hold Still by Sally Mann, the great American photographer that talks about that, you know, how photography stands in from memory and it becomes false in its own way.

Jason Blitman: 22:03

Hmm.

Ann Patchett: 22:05

Another book to add to your list.

Jason Blitman: 22:07

Seriously. Um, that as a concept is very scary to me because it's, it's just memories playing tricks on you. or your, your brain playing tricks on you, not memories playing tricks on you.

Ann Patchett: 22:18

And you just start thinking. We all have our own truth. I mean, oh my God, if we know nothing right now in history, we all have our own truth. And the thing that I'm always telling myself is that people whose memories and ideas of right and wrong are different from mine believe, believe, believe, believe. Their memory,

Jason Blitman: 22:43

Yeah,

Ann Patchett: 22:43

you know, even if they constructed it in their basement, in their spare time, they believe the memory that they have made, because if you say it enough, it becomes your true memory. Memory is kind of worthless. Maybe that's what the point is.

Jason Blitman: 22:58

Huh. That's very interesting. And if a memory is a reflection of the past, does that also mean the past is worthless and it's only worth looking forward and moving ahead? I'm not putting words in your mouth. I'm more, uh, having an existential thought

Ann Patchett: 23:13

An existential thought. I don't know. I don't know. But I, I don't, I don't, I'm unsure of my own memories. I was in, um, New York on September 11th, and I was downtown when the, when the towers fell and I was with a very good friend and years later, we sat down as like an exercise and said, what do you remember about the day and it was if we had not been together all day, we had had completely different experiences. So there's also that thing of memory in trauma. You know, memory when you are just flooded with adrenaline and kind of running to save your life. We had two entirely different days and we were together all day. And to this day, I mean, I know that each of us believes That I believe I am right. She believes she is right.

Jason Blitman: 24:13

And, in turn, you're both right.

Ann Patchett: 24:15

Right.

Jason Blitman: 24:16

For your own right. It's whatever your own story is. And, uh, who's to say what right even means?

Ann Patchett: 24:24

Boy, here we go.

Jason Blitman: 24:28

Um, Thinking about Something, uh, if we're getting deep, there's, there's, uh, one of the priests in the book, listens to music and he says that he feels his soul fill with a kind of rapture when listening to the music. Is there something that fills your soul with a kind of rapture?

Ann Patchett: 24:49

All sorts of things. I mean, my, my soul is, is a wide open door

Jason Blitman: 24:55

I love that.

Ann Patchett: 24:56

with rapture. So, you know, definitely music, but today. You know, just, it was just a fantastic fall day after being way too warm for way too long, suddenly it was cold and bright and very windy and suddenly the leaves seemed orange and we're swirling around and yeah, that fills up my soul.

Jason Blitman: 25:20

It's a very, uh, lovely and optimistic outlook. I appreciate

Ann Patchett: 25:24

I am, I am a glass half full kind of gal, which the thing that I have realized over the course of my life is that is just the salt in my brain. That is just the hand that I was dealt. And I'm a, I am a cheerful, optimistic, Person, even, even now, even in these times, I think, you know, what history, history's hard look backwards. You, you think this is the worst time. This isn't the worst time.

Jason Blitman: 25:56

No. I was just in an interview this morning and I was saying that I am a glass half full, optimistic person, realist, realist rising.

Ann Patchett: 26:07

Yeah. I think, I think that's a very, very fair assessment of what I am. but I, I get, I get weary of people who associate. being smart with, with being bitter and negative and saying, well, everything's over, you know, like if you were as smart as I am, you would understand the world is coming to a crashing end. And I think, yeah, no, really not so much

Jason Blitman: 26:40

Yeah, no. Well, also, it's been coming to a crashing end for

Ann Patchett: 26:44

for a really

Jason Blitman: 26:45

millennia, right?

Ann Patchett: 26:47

and also take whatever energy you have wringing your hands and saying, I knew it all along. Get off your ass and go do something about it. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 26:57

That's the pull quote of the episode. Rigoletto is Mr. Hosokawa's entryway into opera. I don't want to make any assumptions, but having consumed a lot of Ann Patchett content, is it safe to assume that Charlotte's Web is your Rigoletto?

Ann Patchett: 27:17

Hmm. Um, it, yes it is. That is a very safe assumption. Charlotte's Web is my Rigoletto. But here's the interesting thing.

Jason Blitman: 27:26

I love interesting

Ann Patchett: 27:27

I had never seen Rigoletto in much the same way I had never seen our town. And I was in New York for a week recently, And I was staying right by Juilliard and taking the Crosstown bus back and forth, and I was standing next to this big broadside from the Met, and I realized that Rigoletto was going to be playing the next day, and I was free for the matinee. And I went to see it, and oh my god, it was brilliant. It was a fantastic production, but it's an opera I have listened to so many times. And read about and know about, but to see it, it was such a gift. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 28:13

I didn't get opera until I saw, I was in Barcelona and saw a production of Rent, the musical, performed in Catalan. And I didn't understand a word, but I obviously knew the story, and so Them singing and them emoting was what really hit me so hard and what really moved me and to this day is still one of the best pieces of theater I've ever seen and I've seen a lot. So I have a new respect for opera, even though what I have seen has not necessarily been my cup of tea. I do think there is the right, the right thing for me, eventually.

Ann Patchett: 28:50

Well, here's the thing about opera, which I didn't know anything about opera until I mapped out Belcanto and I started doing my work, you can't just walk into opera. You know, it's like in the same way that I have been to one baseball game in my life and I found it to be existential torture because I was so bored because I had no idea what was going on. And I think opera is the same thing. If you do the work to learn, then you're going to have an amazing experience, but it takes real effort.

Jason Blitman: 29:30

So, what does that look like? Does that look like reading the synopsis, listening to some of the music?

Ann Patchett: 29:36

You know, for me, and I tried a lot of different things. The thing that really was the key to the door was a book called Opera 101 by Fred Plotkin. And

Jason Blitman: 29:46

little on the nose,

Ann Patchett: 29:47

a little on the nose, but Fred Plotkin is an amazing man, and I think I have sold more copies of his books than I have my own. And it, it explained, How to learn. It put the course out there. You read the libretto. You listen to the music while reading the libretto. You listen to the music without reading the libretto. You place it in history. You know, you start to be able to hear how the work is configured. Um, and also these HD broadcasts from the Met, that's a game changer, uh, because suddenly it, uh, democratizes opera and you can be in any small town in Indiana and, or hey, Tennessee, let me say any small town in Tennessee, and for 30 bucks, you can go to the Cineplex and see Rigoletto. And, and that's a game changer because opera is an unbelievably expensive art form and it has not been for the masses. And opera is trying really hard at scrambling to save itself and build a new generation of audience.

Jason Blitman: 31:03

Yeah. PBS link for the Belcanto Opera was broken, not broken. It is, it is no longer

Ann Patchett: 31:10

It is not existent yet.

Jason Blitman: 31:12

Um, but I did try. I wanted to watch the Belcanto Opera as well.

Ann Patchett: 31:16

it's really good. It was, it was a beautiful, beautiful opera. Did you watch the movie?

Jason Blitman: 31:22

No.

Ann Patchett: 31:23

Yeah, no one did. It's hysterical. No one. It's, it's like impossible to see. The only people that I have ever met who have seen that movie have seen it on international flights.

Jason Blitman: 31:37

Oh, fascinating. I think for me the story makes so much sense as an opera that I, my instinct was more to check out. the opera. Because I was like, oh, this is fascinating that it would be adapted that way because of course it's right there. okay. I'm shocked when I was reading the annotated version that there's that infamous moment on page 13 where readers just completely missed that you channeled the ending and told everyone the ending. Which like, was when I did my first read was so obvious to me. I want to even tell you, what did I write in the margins?

Ann Patchett: 32:16

Oh my god. They're all gonna die.

Jason Blitman: 32:19

I said, like Shakespeare, knowing how it will end with the line written underlined. because of course that's exactly what you did. And that's exactly what Shakespeare did with his prologues is tell you, These two lovers are going to die at the end, so that's going to make it extra sad for you when you watch this whole story. It's like, it's like Titanic. You consume any content about Titanic and it's so tragic because you watch these people fall in love and we know what's going to happen

Ann Patchett: 32:49

Yeah, yeah. And for me, I always say it's, it's like love story because that's how old I am. Um, but yeah, uh, it begins that movie with Ryan O'Neal and Allie McGraw begins with Ryan O'Neal sitting in an empty baseball stadium. What do you say about Jenny? She loved Bach, Beethoven, and me. Jenny's dead. Okay, so that's good. That's good to know. We are not watching it thinking, is Jenny gonna pull through? She's not gonna pull through. But hey, here's the news. None of us are gonna pull through. Um, and we miss life. Because we're so focused on whether or not we're going to make it. We're not going to make it. Um, so time to pay attention to life.

Jason Blitman: 33:34

Yeah. And so in the confines of this story, it's like, okay, we know that these, uh, hostages are not going to die within the context of this book.

Ann Patchett: 33:43

Right.

Jason Blitman: 33:44

So let's not stress about that. And let's just learn about their relationships. And it's, a gift that you give to the readers to just say, sit back and learn about these humans or get to the edge of your seat and learn about these

Ann Patchett: 33:56

Yeah. Or stress over the fact that you will become very attached to the people who will die.

Jason Blitman: 34:01

Yeah. Yeah, which, and it's true. It's very upsetting. the annotated Belcanto, which I'm obsessed with, it's gorgeous.

Ann Patchett: 34:11

Doesn't it look like a high school textbook? I love

Jason Blitman: 34:14

know what? It does, and I'm obsessed

Ann Patchett: 34:17

it looks. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 34:19

Oh my god, it's so true. Now I want to like go put like a brown paper covering on it or something.

Ann Patchett: 34:26

But the dimensions and the shine and the cover, it's just, When I opened that box I was like wow,

Jason Blitman: 34:32

Well, and it's, it really projects, I think, what you can take from the book, too. You're going to learn when you open these

Ann Patchett: 34:41

yeah,

Jason Blitman: 34:41

The Annotated Bel Canto is like an open rehearsal.

Ann Patchett: 34:47

interesting say

Jason Blitman: 34:48

very special to me. Well, an open re a writer's process. is solitary, is private, and is emotional. And you work through things on your own in your little space and it's safe. And as a theater director, a rehearsal is a private, safe, very confined, very comfortable, environment. And you are vulnerable when you are in front of an audience for the first time. and if you let someone into the rehearsal process, you are even more vulnerable because you're still figuring the stuff out. And so we really got the insight to you figuring the stuff out. Even more so it's, it's present day and, I don't want to use the word judging because that isn't fair. Uh, having conversation with 36 year old Anne. And so it's an extra layer of vulnerability that I think is a very special and valuable experience as a reader. So thank you for that.

Ann Patchett: 35:51

Can I just say though so many people have said to me and I don't mean and I haven't done a lot of interviews for this this is not something that I'm, you know, Doing a ton of publicity for or going on tour for but people that I know have said, boy, you just made yourself so vulnerable. You just really laid out all of your dirty laundry and all of your mistakes. And, um, and I think it's not vulnerability. It's just interesting. It's, it's really It's really interesting in terms of the craft and how you write a novel.

Jason Blitman: 36:24

You could say that now.

Ann Patchett: 36:27

Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 36:28

I bet. I think, I don't, I think it's vulnerable. I'm, I feel vulnerable for 36 year old Ann. Maybe that's because I'm 36.

Ann Patchett: 36:36

Okay. All right.

Jason Blitman: 36:38

Right? And so I'm reflecting on what will, how will I feel in 24 years reflecting back on when I re listened to episodes of Gay's Reading.

Ann Patchett: 36:48

Exactly.

Jason Blitman: 36:50

I would feel vulnerable if I was critiquing this tomorrow.

Ann Patchett: 36:53

Sure. Right. Yes.

Jason Blitman: 36:55

but I think in the future, there's enough time and buffer.

Ann Patchett: 36:59

right, when you're 60 and you listen to this again and you think, I should have asked her this or how bold of me to ask her that I'm proud of myself. I'm, I am disappointed in myself all at the same time. Right. That's not vulnerable. It's just interesting. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 37:19

less of an open rehearsal and more of like a documentary of what the process was like that many years ago. is there something you would say to your younger self now? Other than, Commas

Ann Patchett: 37:34

Get a copy editor maybe? No. Um,

Jason Blitman: 37:37

Other than that, like sort of in a holistic sense, is there something you would say to your younger self?

Ann Patchett: 37:43

work harder.

Jason Blitman: 37:45

Oh, interesting.

Ann Patchett: 37:46

harder. You know, just go over it a hundred times more. Because I was capable,

Jason Blitman: 37:54

Hmm.

Ann Patchett: 37:54

and if I had done things like that I do now, read things aloud, just go over them again and again and again, um, I could have made that book better. And I really, when I was doing the annotated version, I had this moment of thinking, huh, you know, maybe instead of, circling all my mistakes, I could just fix them and bring out Belcanto Taylor's version. And, and, you know, I, I could make this an amazing book now and the structure would be the same. I would just clean up the mistakes. But the problem is, because I am not Taylor Swift, everybody who read it, who had read it before would say, Oh, it was so much better the way it was.

Jason Blitman: 38:38

Hmm.

Ann Patchett: 38:39

so I couldn't do that. I had to just circle all the mistakes and, and leave it out there. But it was a very interesting thing to think about. Well, what if I just fix them?

Jason Blitman: 38:52

Yeah. There is Do you know the movie Picnic? Picnic.

Ann Patchett: 38:56

No.

Jason Blitman: 38:57

Okay, it's a classic movie starring like Rosalind Russell and other people, but it's based on a play called Picnic, uh, by a playwright named William Inge. And the producers on Broadway for the original production, didn't like the way it ended and they were only going to fund it if they, if he ended the play the way that they wanted it to end. And so he did and it became a very famous play. It's been revived on Broadway multiple times. It was turned into a film. but then he went back and rewrote the play to be what he wanted it to be. And it's under a different name called Summer Brave. And it was certainly less popular, but the product that he wanted out in the world is what exists. So it's fascinating because the plays are almost identical. but it's not dissimilar from what you were saying about some nips and tucks and fixes and changes and maybe, you know, chunks here and there. And that's what he did with this second version of the play that no one even really knows about. But it's

Ann Patchett: 39:58

that's so interesting. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 40:01

I think you could do it and you could, instead of Bel Canto, Taylor's version, it could be called Bel Canto. With

Ann Patchett: 40:10

Okay. So here's, here's an interesting thing. one of the things that I got out of this book was a, a real understanding of my own process and, and the way that I write now, which I think is very weird and You know, I just rewrite, rewrite, rewrite everything over and over and again, um, micromanaging every word and every sentence. And when I went back and read Belcanto, I thought, God, you know, I'm glad that I write that way. Now I, this is really a better way for me to be writing, but I'm, so I'm writing a novel now and I have 50 pages of it. And, um, I have a, a very close friend in Australia and she said, from my birthday, I want you to make a recording of something. I want you to read something to me, anything you want. And so I read her the first chapter of this novel that I'm writing, which nobody,

Jason Blitman: 41:05

my birthday is April 6th.

Ann Patchett: 41:06

Oh, okay. Okay. Hey, by April 6th, I may be done with it. Um, and I, I read the first chapter, made a long voice note. And she said to me, she said, I don't know what happened to you in between Tom Lake and this, but she's like you have really changed. And I said, I know what happened to me. I did Belcanto. I went through and did the annotation and it really, I think both gave me confidence, but also just said to me, just stay in the language for as long as you want, make it absolutely right. Don't rush through anything. Um, and it just gave me this incredible permission and it was really so kind of my friend to be like, yes, this is working.

Jason Blitman: 42:03

Wow. How amazing to even know that that difference is recognized. You've, you could see the change in yourself, but for it to show that clearly in essentially a rough draft audio message, that's very cool. How special to have an opportunity to reflect on work like that. Um, okay, so something, something that you get frustrated by yourself in this book, Well, let me start by telling my anecdote and you'll understand why. Okay. I'm, I never thought I would tell you this. I never thought I'd have the opportunity to tell you this. And even if I did have the opportunity, I would have never even told it to you because it's embarrassing and it's stupid and it's silly, but it is relevant and you will understand.

Ann Patchett: 42:50

we're making ourselves vulnerable

Jason Blitman: 42:51

We're very vulnerable. I, uh, was in conversation with Claire Lombardo, the evening that she met you. So she was with you that morning and with me that evening. And because I saw that on her Instagram, the very first thing we did when we sat down in front of the audience at the bookstore, I was like, you have to tell me about Ann Patchett. And we were like going on and on talking about Ann Patchett. And I was being very silly. And the first silly thing that came to my mind was, did she smell good?

Ann Patchett: 43:29

And what did Claire Lombardo say?

Jason Blitman: 43:31

I think,

Ann Patchett: 43:33

God bless

Jason Blitman: 43:33

Right? that's the important question. I think she was like, yes, magical, like roses, like books, I don't know. It was very cute, because again, it was just this very silly moment. But the reason why I'm bringing it up in the context of the Annotated Belcanto, aka the ABC, is because you talk, you address how often you bring up the way a woman's hair smells.

Ann Patchett: 43:56

Oh, that's the worst of all the embarrassing things.

Jason Blitman: 43:59

Well, sure, but what's interesting and again, embarrassing, and I'm being vulnerable because I was like, why is that where my brain went first? Like, tell me how Ann Patchett smelled was it a silly thing for me to say to get a laugh out of

Ann Patchett: 44:11

did her hair smell like flowers? I would really

Jason Blitman: 44:13

but I, but I guess subconsciously that is just like a thing that is, is it, is it that it's feminine, right? I don't know. Like you, you went on this journey. And now you're kicking yourself and you're never gonna, we're never gonna know how any of your, uh, female character's hair smells ever again in any

Ann Patchett: 44:33

never going there again. But, you know, it goes back to what I was just saying about writing. And just thinking, is this a, is this like a little crutch? Is this a filler or does this matter? It doesn't matter. And I interviewed Andre de Boos, uh, a few weeks ago, and the guy is like, he's like a slot machine. He just quotes authors. He's got, he has access to a million brilliant quotes in his head. And he said, actually, when we were on stage, his wife was like, you're a Rolodex. You're not actually clever. Um, But the one that he said that has just stuck with me was a roomy quote, which was run away from cleverness towards bewilderment. And, and so all these moments, like saying her hair smelled like flowers. Jesus, you know, does that ever really happen? It's something that happens in novels. And so now if I write something like that, I, I go back and read it and I think, take that out. That's ridiculous. Like say something true about this woman, not what her hair smells like. Now can I tell you my Claire Lombardo story?

Jason Blitman: 45:57

Of course.

Ann Patchett: 45:59

So Claire was at the store just right when we got our dog Nemo. And I think that it might've even been Nemo's first day on the job in the bookstore. And our social media person, Sarah took a picture of me, Nemo and Claire, and we're each holding one of his paws and he looks Like the happiest dog in the world. It is his glamor shot. Also, we haven't had him that long, but he's gotten fat. You know, it's, it's, we're not doing this dog any favors. He looked amazing when we got him downhill from there, but it's my husband's screensaver on his phone. And every time his phone rings and I look at it and I'm like, Me, Nemo, Claire Lombardo, who you don't even know,

Jason Blitman: 46:59

as soon as we hang up to tell her that. That is

Ann Patchett: 47:01

I just keep thinking people at work are, you know, looking at his phone and saying, okay, that's your wife and that's your dog, who's the pretty brunette? And he's going to be like, no idea.

Jason Blitman: 47:14

That is so, so funny. That is a good story.

Ann Patchett: 47:18

presence in our life.

Jason Blitman: 47:20

Oh my god. Adore her. That's amazing. I, my takeaways from Bel Canto, thinking about language, was of course literal language, um, and the language of art, but also the language of time and music and chess and cards and the amount of languages that don't require, uh, being able to literally understand one another. And it was just a very powerful reminder that we can coexist, especially using art. Especially right now. And it doesn't have to be one thing. And we can understand each other in a whole lot of new and different ways.

Ann Patchett: 48:03

Yes, absolutely. And, and I have to say, you know, I've gone through periods. Of thinking are seriously novels, literary fiction. Like what am I doing? What it doesn't make any difference. It's a fiery ball. And there is something about a totalitarian regime that really does make me sit up straight and think. I'm going to write a novel. I'm going to make art and save the world. You know, it's, it's, I feel energized by oppression.

Jason Blitman: 48:41

It's funny you say that, because I am not a writer, and I've had one sort of nugget of an idea noodling around in my head for like 10 years now, and that's essentially the thesis, like, why art right now? and it has become a little louder as the weeks have gone on. I'm still not a writer, I don't have the patience to be a writer. And I think, you know, you said, why did you write that? Just throw that out. That doesn't matter. That's not true. Like, I feel like I just fill the page with things like that. so that's besides the point. But I know I feel that deeply.

Ann Patchett: 49:12

Life is a series of stories. We tell ourself about ourself. You keep saying that you're not a writer. You won't be a writer. Tell yourself a different story. You'll

Jason Blitman: 49:22

Fair, fair, Ann Patchett said, Ann Patchett said.

Ann Patchett: 49:25

I just minutes before we got on found out was actually now a thing. there's a Spotify playlist. Of all of the music and it's, and it's under something like Ann Patchett Spell Canto, and it's largely Renee Fleming. And they Decca, I think, put it together. And so you can actually listen to the music and this is long been my dream, but it dropped today.

Jason Blitman: 49:56

Oh, amazing. I will, it'll be linked in the show

Ann Patchett: 49:59

Oh, I love that.

Jason Blitman: 49:59

this episode. okay. This is my holiday episode.

Ann Patchett: 50:03

Okay.

Jason Blitman: 50:04

I need, I need, we need to hear what Ann Patrick is recommending. And there's a great quote from Belcanto that says, the quality of the gift depends on the sincerity of the giver.

Ann Patchett: 50:17

Okay.

Jason Blitman: 50:18

I feel that very deeply. Do you like receiving gifts?

Ann Patchett: 50:21

I hate receiving gifts.

Jason Blitman: 50:23

I hate receiving gifts. And I knew you would

Ann Patchett: 50:25

Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 50:26

When's your birthday?

Ann Patchett: 50:27

December 2nd.

Jason Blitman: 50:28

Oh, I'm not like a big, uh, astrology person, but I, you know, I'm We had, we've had enough overlap where I was like, maybe we'd be the same.

Ann Patchett: 50:36

It's, it's a problem. It's, and part of it is people send me things all the time, no matter how much I beg them not to. And I don't know what to do with the things that people send me. And, um, and I don't need anything and I'm trying to have a smaller life. I just really don't like gifts unless it's going to perish instantly. You know, a food, candle, hand lotion, stationary. My childhood best friend, who's always like, she's such a gift giver. She's like, you have to let me give you a gift. And I finally said stamps or stationary.

Jason Blitman: 51:16

Oh, that's good advice.

Ann Patchett: 51:19

not gonna stick around. Okay, but you want me to recommend some books?

Jason Blitman: 51:22

well, yes, of course you are one of our favorite booksellers in all the world.

Ann Patchett: 51:27

so, I mean, the most obvious one is James by Percival Everett. No, no, no. Uh, which won the National Book Award last night.

Jason Blitman: 51:35

Yes, it did.

Ann Patchett: 51:37

it's the book of the year and the book of the decade and it's the book. It,

Jason Blitman: 51:41

it's a wonderful book.

Ann Patchett: 51:44

Really, if everyone in the country read this book, I think we could solve a lot of the problems of America. Um, it's brilliant. I am obsessed with Niall Williams. This is happiness. And last. Tuesday, the new Niall Williams came out, Time of the Child, and it is not a sequel to This is Happiness, but there are the same characters, and it's in the same town. Great Irish literature. I loved Martyr by Kaveh Akbar, which

Jason Blitman: 52:17

Gay's, Gay's reading guest, Kaveh Akbar,

Ann Patchett: 52:20

Is he something else or what?

Jason Blitman: 52:22

cannot get over

Ann Patchett: 52:23

Cannot get over him.

Jason Blitman: 52:25

I, I had a lot of feelings last night because I wanted him to win. I was glad that James won, like, so it's Bukaves. He'll have more chances.

Ann Patchett: 52:33

It's interesting. We were doing an event at the bookstore last night and we were all waiting and somebody said, Oh, you know, but I love Cave so much. And I was like, a guy who has written one novel up against a guy who has written 31 novels. This is the moment for Percival Everett to win, but I, I loved that book. Um, Louise Erdrich's Mighty Red, uh, Doris Kearns Goodwin, um, an unfinished love story. I am a big Doris Kearns Goodwin fan. So if you like some American political history, it's a wonderful book. Uh, she worked for the Johnson administration and her husband worked for the Kennedy administration. And it was just this through line throughout their marriage. He was always on Team Kennedy, and she was always on Team Johnson, and it's a great book. Amy Tan's Backyard Bird Chronicles. incredible gift book. She spent her pandemic drawing birds in her backyard and writing little essays about them and I love that. Billy Collins was here last night with Water Water and we all need to read more poetry. if you don't read poetry comfortably, Billy Collins is the place to start. Such a good guy. Such a good guy. Um, children's books, because we should do that too.

Jason Blitman: 53:56

we should.

Ann Patchett: 53:58

Hotel Balzar by Kate DiCamillo, a little tiny middle grade novel about a little girl after the war living in the servant's quarters of a hotel. And for picture books, Sophie Blackall's Ahoy. Are you starting to panic? Are you starting to wish you hadn't asked me?

Jason Blitman: 54:16

no, I have a stack next to me in case you were going to turn the question back on me Picture

Ann Patchett: 54:21

turn the question back.

Jason Blitman: 54:22

do you know this?

Ann Patchett: 54:23

No.

Jason Blitman: 54:24

After the Fall by Dan Santat.

Ann Patchett: 54:26

No,

Jason Blitman: 54:27

It is what happens after Humpty Dumpty falls

Ann Patchett: 54:31

into it.

Jason Blitman: 54:32

and how he needs to get back up

Ann Patchett: 54:33

I

Jason Blitman: 54:33

I tell you this book made me sob, it's fantastic.

Ann Patchett: 54:38

do you know a book called Duck, Death and Tulip?

Jason Blitman: 54:41

Uh, no,

Ann Patchett: 54:42

Write that down because that's a picture book that's going to be your favorite book. You know, when you just said we have some overlap and that's a book that people are so horrified by and I'm always like, if you like this book, you will understand everything about me.

Jason Blitman: 54:59

Interesting. Me and Jenny Jackson too, we have very similar tastes in things. So this is,

Ann Patchett: 55:05

Yeah,

Jason Blitman: 55:06

on, we're on a good roll. Um, this of course, congratulations, the best is over. Take would give to anyone. this,

Ann Patchett: 55:13

Also an amazing audio.

Jason Blitman: 55:16

such a good

Ann Patchett: 55:17

Such good audio.

Jason Blitman: 55:18

And he reads his other books too, R. Eric Thomas, he's so good. Um, Start Here by Sola El Wayli is a cookbook. This is a cookbook for people who are stressed out about cookbooks.

Ann Patchett: 55:31

Interesting.

Jason Blitman: 55:31

holds your hand every step of the way and it is To be user friendly visually. So it doesn't take you forever to like find the things.

Ann Patchett: 55:42

it. I love it.

Jason Blitman: 55:43

Um, and one of my favorite books that I picked specifically because we're talking about Belcanto is Anxious People by Frederick Backman. It is a fellow hostage book.

Ann Patchett: 55:56

Okay.

Jason Blitman: 55:57

Very different. Are you, did you not read

Ann Patchett: 55:59

I haven't read it, but that's a big seller at the store. People love that book.

Jason Blitman: 56:03

Terrific book. Also a hostage book. So you could read it in concert with Belkin too.

Ann Patchett: 56:09

And I want to recommend one book to you while we're talking. Maybe another book to you when we're, but you know, I can recommend some.

Jason Blitman: 56:18

I can also cut

Ann Patchett: 56:19

So anyway, this is the thing. I want you to get a book by Todd Doty called Little Pieces of Hope. Do you already have it?

Jason Blitman: 56:29

He handed it to me two weeks ago.

Ann Patchett: 56:31

I love that book so much. I love him.

Jason Blitman: 56:35

Such a nice guy.

Ann Patchett: 56:37

each other true friend. That's, that is our, our

Jason Blitman: 56:40

That's so cute.

Ann Patchett: 56:42

That book rewires your brain with joy. I don't know how it works. I really read it, every word of it, and something in my brain just shifted. Um, also

Jason Blitman: 56:55

we need that right now.

Ann Patchett: 56:56

there is, have you read it yet?

Jason Blitman: 56:58

No,

Ann Patchett: 56:59

It just, just a page,

Jason Blitman: 57:01

on my list.

Ann Patchett: 57:01

you know,

Jason Blitman: 57:02

as soon as we hang up. I'm going to text Claire Lombardo and I'm going to start reading this.

Ann Patchett: 57:05

don't need to sit down and read all the way through, just pick it up and read a little bit. Ross Gay's Book of Delights is another one that's just super to keep by the bed. That's page long essays. Two really good books to pull us out right now. Oh, another book I love this year that's so off brand for me, but I loved it. Sipsworth by Simon van Doy about an old woman in England who takes in a mouse. Loved it. Okay. But here's the main thing I want to tell you. There's a book coming out this fall called Buckeye by Patrick Ryan. And I want you to promise me you'll have him on the show.

Jason Blitman: 57:46

Okay.

Ann Patchett: 57:47

It is an amazing book. He is my best friend. The Dutch house is dedicated to Patrick Ryan. He spent eight years writing this book. It's going to be big

Jason Blitman: 57:59

Done.

Ann Patchett: 58:00

and yeah,

Jason Blitman: 58:02

Can't wait.

Ann Patchett: 58:03

it's so good.

Jason Blitman: 58:04

I should do like a podcast goodbye.

Ann Patchett: 58:07

What is a podcast? Goodbye.

Jason Blitman: 58:09

Well, like say goodbye so that you don't, you don't say to me in two minutes, Oh, Jason, I have to go. And then I just like end things. So I could say like, and it was great to have you here. And then

Ann Patchett: 58:19

an honor. It was such a pleasure and an honor. I

Jason Blitman: 58:23

Such a pleasure. Please, it's an honor to have you and your recommendations, mean the world. And I, and I already blame you for my TBR list because I often check out your, if you haven't read it, it's new to you series on the Parnassus Instagram page. And I have a group thread with dear friends, Ashley and Lauren, and it's called TBR. And we're always talking about books. And we're always talking about books. And every once in a while, we'll send a, Ann Patchett made me do it when we have books that we bought because we saw it on your

Ann Patchett: 58:54

understand wall. Oh God, you've got to read, you die. It's

Jason Blitman: 59:01

Ann, your list is so

Ann Patchett: 59:03

like a little golden book. It'll take you an hour to read it. Helen DeWitt. That was the one that I did a video for and it like sold out all across the country. It's amazing.

Jason Blitman: 59:15

doing very important

Ann Patchett: 59:16

I'm doing God's work. I

Jason Blitman: 59:17

You really are, I know. Thank you, Ann Patchett, the one and only Ann Patchett, y'all. It was on Patchette! I can't believe it! Uh, so, now, quickly, I just want to run through some of my most memorable books of the year. You know, thinking about favorites, I wouldn't even say they're favorites. I loved them all so much, but there are so many books that I've loved this year. And, when I think about a book that sticks with you, uh, Uh, that is, is what's worth noting, uh, it, there's something about it that you remember, whether it's a scene or how you felt or a character or something. And that is what all of these books did for me. So I'm just going to run through them. They're in alphabetical order by the author's last name. I'll give you a little bit about them because I'm sure most of them, if not all of them are already on your radar, but just in case. Uh, here we go. Okay. Martyr by Kaveh Akbar, a newly sober orphan son of Iranian immigrants guided by the voices of artists, poets, and kings, embarks on a remarkable search for a family secret. Kaveh is a poet first, and his writing is just beautiful and spectacular. It has really stuck with me. Get the Picture by Bianca Bosker. Probing everything from cave paintings to Instagram and from the science of sight to the importance of beauty as it examines art's role in our culture, our economy, and our hearts, Get the Picture is a rollicking adventure that will change the way you see forever. Can confirm. I had the absolute pleasure of going gallery hopping with Bianca in New York, and she is as delightful as ever. This book is, um, James by Percival Everett. I obviously just have to shout that out. if you are unfamiliar, it is a brilliant action packed reimagining of the adventures of Huckleberry Finn, both harrowing and darkly humorous told from the enslaved Jim's point of view. I have nothing else to add that has already been said, but if you haven't had a chance to read it, pick it up. And if you're wondering whether or not you need to read Huck Finn first. I say you do not have to. Real Americans by Rachel Kong, an exhilarating novel of American identity that spans three generations in one family, asks what makes us who we are and how inevitable are our futures? I am obsessed with a richly written family story, and this is just that. And Rachel is a delight. This book, Oye, by Melissa Mogollon, is a coming of age comedy, a telenovela worthy drama, a moving family saga, all in a phone call you won't want to hang up on. It is Melissa's debut, it is so unique and exciting, and I am on the edge of my seat to see what she does next. She also is a delight. Sandwich by Kathryn Neumann, a moving, hilarious story of a family summer vacation full of secrets, lunch, and learning to let go. I laughed on every page, I cried at the end, I am obsessed with Catherine Newman as a person, and the book is short enough that you could read it in a few hours. I read it twice this year, and dare I say, it is a delicious sandwich. Terrible puns. Um, okay. A Bit Much by Lindsey Rush. It is a debut collection of poetry. It is a humorous and joyful celebration of big feelings, tender truths, and hard won wisdom. I don't like poetry. I don't get poetry. I am obsessed with this book. It was pitched to me as poetry for a millennial woman, and I devoured it and loved every single page. And she's also a delight. so many of these folks have been guests on Gay's Reading, including Lindsay Rush. Colored Television by Danzy Sena. A brilliant take on love and ambition, failure and reinvention, and the racial identity industrial complex from the best selling author of Caucasia. This book has truly stuck with me for so long. It is the like, inner workings of LA, Hollywood, but also just like, a very human story. There are Rivers in the Sky by Elif Shafak, an enchanting new tale about three characters living along two great rivers, all connected by a single drop of water. This book feels like a Cousin of Martyr because it has beautiful prose and I was truly captivated from the very beginning. The Safe Keep by Yael Van Der Wouden. An exhilarating, twisted tale of desire, suspicion, and obsession between two women staying in the same house in the Dutch countryside during the summer of 1961, a powerful exploration of the legacy of World War II and the darker parts of our collective past. The safekeep is Sapphic Call Me By Your Name. That was so steamy, it made me question my own sexuality. It is also a relatively slim book, and it is So, so terrific. All right. And last but most certainly not least all the colors of the dark by Chris Whitaker, a missing person, mystery, a serial killer, thriller, a love story, a unique twist on each Chris Whitaker has written a novel about what lurks in the shadows of obsession and the blinding light of hope in full disclosure, I hugged the advanced reader copy when it arrived on my doorstep and I was so relieved to that it lived up to the expectations that I already had for the book. It is long, but each chapter is only a few pages, and it moves so swiftly, you will not be able to put it down. So those are some of my most memorable books of the year. I cannot wait to see what some of your most memorable books of the year are. And that's it. That's all I got. These will all be in a bookshop. org link that will be in the show notes, so you don't have to necessarily write everything down. All of the books that Anne recommended, all of these books will be on bookshop. org. You could get them there. Some of these books were, again, a part of Aardvark Book Club. You could sign up with the Gay's Reading Code at aardvarkbookclub. com. 99 percent of these folks were on Gays Reading this season, and it has been such an absolute pleasure and honor getting to talk to all of these people. And you can go back and listen to some of those conversations if you're not quite sure if the book is for you. You can get a vibe about the book, you can get a vibe about the author, and it's a great, great and exciting way to explore whether or not a book might be for you. All of that said, if you're liking what you're hearing, please share it with your friends, follow on social media. We're on where Aki is reading on Instagram, like and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And this has been, uh, truly, truly wonderful. I hope everybody has a wonderful holiday season, a very happy new year. And I look forward to more books, more fun stuff. in 2025. Ah, fantastic. Happy New Year, everybody. See you very soon. Bye.