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gays reading, where the greats drop by. Trendy authors tell us all the who, what, and why. Anyone can listen, cause we're spoiler free. gays reading. From poets and stars, to book club picks. Where the curious minds can get their fix. So you say you're not gay, well that's okay. There's something for everyone. gays reading. You Hello, and welcome to gays reading. I'm your host, Jason Blitman. And, uh, it has been a weird and devastating week with the ongoing fires in LA. I know for sure that my mind has been with friends and loved ones there who are suffering an unimaginable loss. in all sorts of ways. And, uh, I know it's been distracting and hard to read and, and there's just, there's a lot happening in the world right now. And it's only the beginning of January and it's, uh, it's a lot to handle. And so I hope that you are taking care of yourselves and, you know, We're all sort of in this together. And. Whatever we can all do for each other. Uh, if anyone needs. To talk to anyone. My DMS are open. and I hope that, you are doing all right. Because, you know, it's hard right now. If you are looking for ways to help and give back. to those who are dealing with losses in Los Angeles, there are links to resources in the show notes. And so, uh, you can find some, some ways to help there. Hey, well, it has been super hard to read. Books have also been a, a solace and an escape. so if you've had some time, I hope that you have had a moment to sort of get away mentally as well. and today his guest and her book is no exception. Today, I'm talking to the terrific Kate Fagan. About her book, the three lives of Kate Kay. It has been all over the place. It is a Reese's book club pack and it was Target's book club Peck. It is a book of the month selection for this month. And so it's.'cause like gates book is, is. Uh, in escapable as well. Uh, she's super cool. And the guest gay reader today is Katherine Bude EG. Who is a Yogi she has her own book imprint. And she also is Kate Fagan's wife. And so she's a really cool and exciting guest gay reader for today. Both of their bio's are in the show notes. If you are new to gaze reading, it's worth sharing that you could follow us on social media at gays reading on Instagram. You can also like, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We are everywhere, including YouTube. You could watch all of these interviews over on YouTube. And if you're so inclined to leave us a review, it is always super helpful. With the algorithm to help other people find games, reading. So with all that sad, weird, weird times. Weird times here we are. but I hope that this can be a little bit of an escape for you and, uh, please enjoy my conversation with Kate Fagan. And then with Catherine

Jason Blitman: 3:21

Welcome to Gay's Reading. I am so excited to talk to you about your book. first and foremost, for our listeners who have not read it yet, and they certainly haven't, because this comes out, or maybe they have, because it comes out a week after pub day. So maybe people have read it and they've devoured it in a week. For those who haven't, What is your elevator pitch for the book?

Kate Fagan: 3:41

Okay, so it's basically the three lives of K. k. is about our main character, K. k., who is the most famous author in the world, except K. k. is a pseudonym and nobody has ever known the real person behind this famous trilogy of books until she releases her memoir. And this is her memoir. That's my elevator pitch. What do you think?

Jason Blitman: 4:06

I love it. And listeners, I will say, don't read the blurb, don't read the back of the book. Just know it is a propulsive. page turner, and I don't, you don't want to know anything else about it other than read it.

Kate Fagan: 4:20

Yeah I don't I feel like that would be true, because I feel like trying to figure out how to market this book was tricky, only because there are elements of suspense. And it's thriller ish, because there's a missing identity, but if people really love consuming thriller thrillers, like Gone Girl level thrillers, then this is not exactly the right book. And so if you read the back, you might have expectations for one thing, and then it is something totally different. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 4:52

appreciate an author who is self aware and knows the product that they're delivering. It is not Gone Girl, but I will actually say, and we don't need to get into the weeds about this because I want to talk about, more about the book. It is, I've never really read a book like this. it's like a dash of oral history, a dash of thriller, a dash of romance, all, like a dash of Hollywood story, all mixed together, and it like produced something that I feel like I've never read. Anyway it's, that's, I will say that, and then if people really need to read the back of the book, they can. This happens in the first chapter we learn that Kate K's original name is Annie, and identity plays a huge part of the book, and what it means to have something of our own, and I'm curious if you think this story can be Annie's, even if she's If she's mostly owning it as Kate, can it be Annie's story?

Kate Fagan: 5:54

Yeah, I think the even, I'm not pretending that some of the things I'm going to say now, I knew when I was writing it, right? So just to be clear. But I do think that on the backside of writing it, I don't think it's Annie's story. I definitely think it's Kate Kay's story.

Jason Blitman: 6:15

Yeah.

Kate Fagan: 6:16

she's Kate k who, is the famous author. She's the front facing entity that is Annie, and you'll learn more about her. But Kate k is very much trying to both tell a very honest, well-rounded story, but main control, maintain control of her story. So I, so in that way it's not really Annie's story,

Jason Blitman: 6:41

Also, it's interesting. It makes me think about the Marilyn Monroe's of the world. What was her name? Like, Mary Sue or, like, Betty Jean. Something like that. Oh, the gays are gonna come for me. Um,

Kate Fagan: 6:53

Know that and I also don't know that. Yeah

Jason Blitman: 6:57

she left her old life behind, and now she's Marilyn Monroe, right? So then it's that's the end of Annie's story is when Kate Kaye's story begins, right? Is that an accurate, statement?

Kate Fagan: 7:10

I think that it's more maybe

Jason Blitman: 7:13

Jeanne, Norma Jeanne,

Kate Fagan: 7:14

Norma Jean! Of course it's Norma Jean! Of course it is! That's so bad.

Jason Blitman: 7:20

Okay, just needed to get that out there.

Kate Fagan: 7:22

Yes. Kate K is like, is the persona that, that allows to not really hide behind, but become some version of herself that she couldn't be as like this small lake town kid growing up, something like that.

Jason Blitman: 7:42

So speaking of Small Lake Town and growing up, there are moments that Kate talks about in the story that she calls blueprint memories, moments in her life that helped her see and understand the life that was then constructed following that moment. Do you have any blueprint memories?

Kate Fagan: 8:04

Yeah, some of them are probably in the book because there's

Jason Blitman: 8:06

Ha.

Kate Fagan: 8:08

one of them is similar to a moment that KK goes through in the book that I remember. This was like, this is just so cheesy that it's embarrassing, but I'll just say that I was obsessed with Home Alone and I was obsessed with Macaulay Culkin. I think we were exactly the same age. So whatever age, maybe whatever age he is in Home Alone, that's the age I was when Home Alone came out. And I remember like riding my bike and just being like, I need to go to Los Angeles and be a star like Macaulay Culkin. And feeling like the expanse of the world right then of that, like it was the first time I had seen the vastness of the world and like what I could become all through fucking Home Alone and Macaulay Culkin. And so I think that I, that's a, I wouldn't have said that now, but I think about that moment. I wouldn't have said that then, but I think about that moment and have ever since it happened,

Jason Blitman: 9:07

so it's like a reflected blueprint, right? You like think back on it and you're like, oh that changed the trajectory of

Kate Fagan: 9:13

And that's what Kate Kay is doing, right? Is she's I would say it's a blueprint moment because it's the first moment, when ambition became a central pillar of her life.

Jason Blitman: 9:22

I remember I didn't want to be Macaulay Culkin, but I was obsessed with the creativity behind the booby traps, and I like loved the idea of a creative booby trap, and I like remember wanting to be able to do that in my own home.

Kate Fagan: 9:38

Wow. Yeah. They're like the original Rube Goldberg machine. Sorry.

Jason Blitman: 9:42

Yes, like the game, Mousetrap,

Kate Fagan: 9:45

Yep. There's like a mass, it was, yeah, they were so creatively planned and so masterful with the home items they used to do each of those. I could I feel like I liked those more when I was older. So kudos to you for like at the time being like, that's cool. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 10:03

I know. I was like, okay, how can I fashion my home to keep me safe from burglars? So yeah. Annie becomes Kate K. Annie, growing up, has her best friend in the whole world, Amanda. Do you have an Amanda? Did you have an Amanda?

Kate Fagan: 10:19

No, I didn't. I did not. I have a best friend now, and I have had, super close friends like her in my adult life, but never as a kid. And so I really, I thought it would be fun to create that energy because,

Jason Blitman: 10:37

the Amanda that you needed?

Kate Fagan: 10:39

because I mean I had, I obviously had girls on my basketball team growing up that like I had a crush on and I didn't understand what it was But like we weren't friends friends they were just people in school or that I had casual relationships with, so I thought, wow, I'm gonna build out like a beautiful friendship. But then one that has this, I guess you could consider it a fatal flaw. Baked

Jason Blitman: 11:03

So you talk about having crushes on girls on your basketball team. There's a moment in the book where Annie and her mother, where out of the blue, her mom talks about dykes that she walked in on at the motel that she cleans and she speaks about them very disparagingly. Did you have a moment like that in your life? Was that sort of pulled?

Kate Fagan: 11:24

Oh, yeah. For, nothing like that, but growing up, playing, growing up, playing basketball. Especially in a time before our current age of openness in the WNBA. This was back in a time when no women's college basketball coach was out. Women's players were ne would never talk about sexuality at all. And yeah being inside that world, people would always be like, I heard that team has a bunch of dykes on it. That kind of thing would be said all of the time. And I didn't want this book, The Three Lives of k., to be like a coming out sob story book. I just feel like that's not what our current moment needs, but I didn't want to write a book and not at least as you're reading it, You could, I think, you could read this book in 2024 and completely forget that being gay in any capacity was a huge struggle not that long ago. And I wanted at least one scene in the book that placed people back in I think it was about 1999 when that scene takes place. Just to be like, Hey, don't forget.

Jason Blitman: 12:31

There was adversity. Yeah. No, I totally get that. It's, it is not a coming out story. It is not it is not a queer trauma story. But that doesn't mean that there were not hurdles and struggles

Kate Fagan: 12:43

That's right.

Jason Blitman: 12:44

her life. Annie and Amanda, in their youth, find moments where it makes them feel adult. there are things that they're doing, whether it's interacting with their drama teacher or something, that they finally feel like they're adults. Were there moments in your life where you felt that way? Particularly adult? And I don't even know what it means. As an adult, in quotation marks, I don't even know what it means to be an adult. What does that mean to you

Kate Fagan: 13:12

I'll let you know when I get

Jason Blitman: 13:14

Yeah.

Kate Fagan: 13:15

I, maybe I would have said I felt like an adult in that moment. I'm not in these moments I'm talking about, But I think more so I just remember it as like a flash of electricity. And this would be like if the first time I, a couple of older teammates picked me up and I sat in the backseat of a car with like music, their choice of music playing. And, maybe in that moment, I'm like, I'm going to, I don't know that I thought I was an adult. I just thought, Oh my God, different energy. All I've ever done is be in a car with two parents. And now I'm in a car with people like my age. So I think, and I remember how like, All encompassing those moments were like, what maybe smaller rites of passage than the ones we talk about the first car ride you ever take with, a friend. And I wanted to like, I remember so distinctly those moments in my, my, childhood and growing up and I wanted their friendship to have a lot of those moments. Cause I feel like people would relate to the nostalgia and the Just the shock of like new experience that can happen within somebody.

Jason Blitman: 14:24

Yeah, I really appreciate the idea of smaller rites of passage. Because I think that I don't even I think I realized how many of those I had as a young adult. It was like yeah it was transformative for me to perform at the local community theater where I was the only person under the age of 20 in the room. Or, the first time I was at where a friend is the one who drove or picked me up or, somewhat recently I was walking around my neighborhood and I heard someone, Honk the horn, honk their car horn in someone's driveway that they were like there to pick someone up and I was like how retro

Kate Fagan: 15:04

Wow. I love that. I love that. Yeah. All the things that we used to do and they meant something. They meant something like a little double beep, like

Jason Blitman: 15:14

I'm here get out time to come hang out

Kate Fagan: 15:18

Yep.

Jason Blitman: 15:19

Yeah, I like I didn't really think about those moments Were you a theater kid?

Kate Fagan: 15:25

No, I wasn't at all.

Jason Blitman: 15:27

Oh, interesting. I say that because there's a lot of theatricality in the book.

Kate Fagan: 15:30

yeah. I was all like all basketball all the time. That's all I did until I was like 24. But my wife was a theater kid and went and majored in theater at UVA and lived in LA for a couple of years. And it was like, no, thank you to that. But I think the book is infused with a lot of that. There's a lot of questions where I was like, Hey, Kathryn, that's my wife. I was like in this one play what is she going to do? And so I think she helped me with a lot of that. But I'm obsessed with the idea of theater, movies, acting. Obviously, it started with Home Alone, and it's not something I would be good at. I just don't think I could lose the level of the self awareness you need to lose to be good at acting. But I really want, I think I'm obsessed with writing about that world.

Jason Blitman: 16:20

Fascinating.

Kate Fagan: 16:21

Yeah. I just can't decide what I think somebody wants when they go to become an actor. Like there's just so many things to explore about like how they see themselves, how the world wants, how they want the world to see them, like what their ambitions are, how they're telling themselves, how they're dealing with worshiping. You have to be an actor, you have to worship things that don't last. There's no way they're going to last. Just all very fascinating to me.

Jason Blitman: 16:49

Yeah, and it's like there are so many angles, too. It's fame, it's vanity, it's Storytelling, it's it's a mix of all of the above. Some people go into it because they want to be famous. Some people go into it because they have a passion for telling a story. How did this book come to be for you? Yes!

Kate Fagan: 17:13

of four or five manuscripts that just were not good and started a bunch more and abandoned them. And I want, when I was starting out this project, I decided to just write it as a fake memoir because I had published memoirs, and I just was like, I really was. Okay, something about the voice of a memoir I seem to get I understand the point of view, I understand the insights I'm trying to convey in that type of framework. And so I was like, I'm just gonna give myself the smoothest little on ramp here, and I'm gonna write this story as if it's a fake memoir. I didn't think that structure would last. just thought it was a way to find the character and then I would, retroactively remove that framework. But when I did do that and like the book fell apart a little bit, so I put it back in the fake memoir framework and other, and so starting out with it, like the starting out on ramp was like, this is going to be a fake memoir. And then I was just trying to think of like the, a book I, a premise I would love. And I love the premise of who is, Elena Ferrante I love that. I love imagining that we never knew who Stephen King was, like, that he was, like, the Bitcoin founder. Just, that seemed It just, that kind of framework seemed like something I would be really interested in reading. And then there were like a couple more like movies from my past or books I had read that I had, that had really stuck with me. And I tried to figure out what I liked about them and incorporate that into this book.

Jason Blitman: 18:50

It's funny you say that because in reading it I was like, I wonder if Elena Ferrante is going to come out after this book comes out.

Kate Fagan: 18:59

That would be, there'd be quite a result for me, I think.

Jason Blitman: 19:05

I was like, is this a blueprint for us to out Elena Ferrante?

Kate Fagan: 19:12

Go.

Jason Blitman: 19:13

Quick, someone call, what was his name? Jake. Someone called Jake.

Kate Fagan: 19:17

Yeah, Jake Fisher.

Jason Blitman: 19:20

So there's a quote in the book The thing about writing is that it's unlike other creative endeavors. It's not about you. It's only about the story and the words. To be an actor or musician, you must perform. You're reading on yourself, but not the writer. Most readers don't even consider the author. Do you think that's true? Do you believe that? Do you feel that?

Kate Fagan: 19:43

I think at the time that was really true. As in at, in, when she was saying that in 2000 I think there was maybe like three authors you would actually see on the street and know who they are. And I think if you want it to be true, it can be true. I don't think a lot of people know who Emily Henry is if they ran into her.

Jason Blitman: 20:04

But even, sure, it's like running into someone on the street, but to think, I thought a lot about you when I was reading the book. I, even if we weren't talking to each other, right? There are these elements of, oh, I wonder what Kate experienced, or does Kate really feel this way about authors, right? So I was like, quote unquote, considering the author, but that doesn't mean I would necessarily know who you were if I ran into you on the street.

Kate Fagan: 20:28

If I've made myself closer to this book than a lot of authors make themselves to books because even though it's entirely a work of fiction besides all the reasons, all of the ways authors put themselves into books. But My Name's Kate, the author, the star, the main character of the book is Kate. It's a memoir I have written memoirs I think maybe as the author of this, and it's like a very meta book, because in Kate Kay within the book, is writing a book and you see what KK is putting into the book she's writing and you may just naturally wonder what did me, Kate, put

Jason Blitman: 21:02

What did Kate, what's Kate Fagan doing? Yeah.

Kate Fagan: 21:04

So maybe I did put myself pretty close to this book but I think if you wanted it to be true, you could maybe make it as true as Kate tries to believe it is in the book.

Jason Blitman: 21:14

Yeah. Yeah. I was just thinking a lot about you. I think I guess maybe it's because I'm a creative person too, that I just, I know the work doesn't start and end with the final product.

Kate Fagan: 21:25

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 21:27

So it makes me think about how did someone get here? Pies play a role in the book. Are you a pie connoisseur yourself?

Kate Fagan: 21:37

I do not consider myself a pie connoisseur, but

Jason Blitman: 21:42

Oh my god, you're killing me

Kate Fagan: 21:44

no, but I think it takes a turn. Pie is not my dessert of choice, usually, but I lived for three years next door to four and twenty blackbirds. in Brooklyn, which is a famous pie shop in Brooklyn, and they have a cookbook. And I got really into pie when I lived there, because if you have the very best version of pie, then you understand it. But I And I think that as well as I love key lime pie. There's nothing I want more than key lime pie. Or whatever form it's in, if it's like a little tiny version of it, little cup of it, like whatever form you want to put key lime pie in, I want to consume it. So all of that made its way into the book.

Jason Blitman: 22:32

I also love Key Lime Pie, and so was salivating at the Key Lime Pie references that appear in the book. There's a Key Lime Pie, or a pie place that I think is known for their Key Lime in Red Hook?

Kate Fagan: 22:46

yeah, I've never been.

Jason Blitman: 22:48

It's like next to the Ikea. Are you, do you still live in Brooklyn?

Kate Fagan: 22:51

No, I live in Charleston now, South Carolina. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 22:57

I'm gonna look right now so that next time you go and visit Brooklyn.

Kate Fagan: 23:02

I'll make my way to Red Hook.

Jason Blitman: 23:04

Yeah.

Kate Fagan: 23:05

I'll take the ferry.

Jason Blitman: 23:07

Okay, it's literally called Steve's Authentic Key Lime Pie.

Kate Fagan: 23:12

Okay. I feel like I've had this. I feel like I've had it.

Jason Blitman: 23:17

It's like a little shack.

Kate Fagan: 23:19

Yeah. I don't think I've been there, but I feel like they sold them in certain.

Jason Blitman: 23:24

Oh, it's very possible.

Kate Fagan: 23:25

Yeah, in certain stores. Yeah. Okay. Fantastic. But I should probably go to the original establishment, the brick and mortar.

Jason Blitman: 23:35

Oh, they literally have key lime. com. Good for Steve. Good for Steve and his authentic key lime pie. Okay, so much of this book is about shame. I think the book The memoir was probably written because of shame and getting through shame. I don't want to speak for Kate Kay, but that's what, part of what I was getting from reading the book. At some point, there's a conversation about how shame has gotten infected. What does shame getting infected mean to you?

Kate Fagan: 24:09

I think that there are, there's like low levels of hum of shame that we can all like, and probably many of us do live with. And then you may go through a certain period where somebody says some specific thing, or you have to see some specific person, or it's like an anniversary of something. And I think. It's almost like whatever is living inside of you feels like it bubbles up and is like haunting you and keeping you awake kind of feeling. And that's what I meant by that in this book. It just felt like at certain points the things she had done and the decisions she had made would really rear their heads.

Jason Blitman: 24:50

What do you think a remedy for that is? Or do you have a remedy for that? If you feel shame getting infected.

Kate Fagan: 25:00

I usually write about it, in that, I had the last book I wrote was a memoir, it was called All the Colors Came Out, and it was about my dad, who had taught me basketball, and then he was diagnosed and died of ALS, Was like the process of dealing with, A lot of my shame about decisions I had made to pull away from him about just about even the smallest thing, like this pair of sneakers he'd gotten me that I never wore. And I felt like writing that book helped me like put it out. And then also realize that in almost all of the ways I was feeling like a devastating amount of shame. It was really just. human decisions that every single person can relate to. And all of that helped take it back down to just like that kind of like regret that can bubble up sometimes. And so I think it's not lost on me that in the book Kate Kay's solution to trying to get some of that out of her is to pour them into a book.

Jason Blitman: 26:06

yeah it makes me think about, there's a fantastic memoir oddly enough called The Many Lives of Mama Love by a woman named Laura Love Harden. She is a former guest of Gay's Reading but similarly it's a book very much about shame and how it's worked through and through the many lives that she. lived. And so it was for this to be the three lives of Kate K, I was like, Oh, there's a very interesting the parallel for me of the sort of shame permeating its way through our various quote unquote lives was just an interesting parallel for me. Yeah, there's, I would say a major plot point or a major like thematic plot point. point in the book is like misjudgment, misunderstanding. Is there anything from your life that you feel like you, you misjudged or saw in a perspective that was different than what it was supposed to be? And it like reared its head on you, came back to haunt you, something that you were overthinking where you really didn't need to be.

Kate Fagan: 27:16

Yeah. There's nothing in my life that's I misjudged so badly and then also through some twist of fate have paid the price for that misjudgment. So I have nothing in my life where, like where I'm pulling from to inspire this book where I feel like one of my misjudgments, the universe also pounced on it and in a different direction. Happens here, but I have moments certainly where I have hypothesized whoa. If I know that I know I misjudged and that I didn't handle correctly and has not had a lasting implication, but very clearly could have if one other variable had been different. And so I think that's definitely what I'm playing with in one of the central kind of like switch points of the book is that profound misjudgment then also being exposed by the universe in a really like life altering way.

Jason Blitman: 28:11

Yeah, I think it also had me thinking, just as the reader, when do I maybe dig my heels in a little too hard, or when do I take something a little too, seriously is not the right word, but really at face value and not think beyond information that I'm given. Again, I'm like dancing around specifics because I don't want to give too much

Kate Fagan: 28:32

No? Okay, because you can if you want to.

Jason Blitman: 28:34

No, I don't want to. But yeah I, the concept of being told one thing, thinking something, and that thing not being true ultimately is, and that happening for your life is very challenging

Kate Fagan: 28:52

Oh,

Jason Blitman: 28:52

and heartbreaking.

Kate Fagan: 28:54

Yeah. Okay. See, there's two things. We were, we're almost talking about two separate things

Jason Blitman: 28:58

I'm sure.

Kate Fagan: 28:59

there's,

Jason Blitman: 29:00

There are so many things in this book I don't want to spoil.

Kate Fagan: 29:03

there's like the fundamental misjudgment that Annie makes early in her life about who Amanda is and who they can be to each other and how that can play for the rest of their life. And then there's a very profound, more nefarious moment where then, believes this, believes something, alters her

Jason Blitman: 29:27

There are lots of nuggets. That's why I said it's like almost a big theme throughout the book. Whether, big and little it's both like misjudgments, overthinking, not thinking rationally, not seeing big picture, and again, as the reader had me thinking throughout my own life and moving forward, what are those things that I'm doing for myself? There's a character who goes through scenarios in their mind and all roads lead to the outcome that has already happened. I'm like speaking in tongues because I don't want to give anything away. The idea basically that someone picks a hundred different paths to go down and realizes that they all end up leading to the same place. Do you think we could change our fate? Why is that?

Kate Fagan: 30:20

I have, I've been feeling more and more like the last couple of years that like, I don't have as much control over my, I don't have as much free will as I thought I did.

Jason Blitman: 30:31

Why is that new for you?

Kate Fagan: 30:33

I, I've been reading a lot of books on like consciousness and those types of principles. I don't know how, it's like my new obsession. And so I think I've been thinking a lot more wait, tell me the question again. I want to make sure I stay on track. I

Jason Blitman: 30:54

we could change our fate?

Kate Fagan: 30:57

feel like I wish I was like a really articulate philosopher right now. Like it seems to me in every small move I take that like something about it feels like I always had to take that choice. And I feel like that both in the small decisions Like me going to get coffee with a friend in an hour and the big decisions. And I think I, so I've less and less felt like my world can be anything I want it to be, but yet that doesn't stop me from to have as much control over my life as possible. But I don't have any that's just how I feel over the last few years. But obviously I don't have, I'm not sure exactly how that worked its way into this book though.

Jason Blitman: 31:44

Sure. No, I was thinking more, even just personally. Every once in a while, it's for me, I'll make a decision about something, it'll happen, and then whether it was the right choice or the wrong choice, it did, it was, that choice was supposed to be made regardless. Which I think is almost, I don't want to say healthier, because then It's harder to have regrets and like regrets how useful or regrets and all of that. I guess that's maybe part of the interesting question, right? It's not healthy to regret things. Or is it healthy? Mmm.

Kate Fagan: 32:16

To regret things as long as you've rectified certain behavioral mistakes that you've made that like your earlier regrets actually did hurt people or depends what those, regrets are, but I feel like if you're somebody who like, you're not going to have regret over decision that you truly came to with competence and empathy. And, then the regret afterward is I'm not sure that's serving you. So I guess it's if you've reached a place in your life, I feel like where you've, You know, you've processed some of the regret where maybe you were the antagonist in that situation, then you can move forward to a better place where you don't need to take the, you don't need to like, give the regret life. Because it's it's always going to be there in some way, but you don't need to like, feed it. I like, whenever regret pops up for me, I try to say not only is that not good for me, I don't even think that person wants that for me.

Jason Blitman: 33:05

That's a good way to think about it for sure. Okay, you just said something about wishing you were an eloquent philosopher, articulate philosopher, whatever you said. You'll feel this way again when I ask you this question, but what does cosmic bigness mean to you?

Kate Fagan: 33:22

Yeah, it's a big theme in the book about KK just feels like she's infused with this need to have cosmic bigness. I really, what it means to me is just a piece of my personality, or I don't know if it was hardwired into me when I was born. And I think a percentage of people can relate to like just wanting everything, just feeling like they want to be like. As much as they can have of life they want. And a lot of that is manifesting in ambition, like wanting to be successful, needing that sort of like earthly achievement vibe. I tried a lot of different phrases to capture the feeling cause I feel it a lot and I don't always love it and I have a lot of complicated relationship with it, but ultimately like the best way to capture that energy, the best way to capture all of that to me was like. Cosmic bigness, because you want something it's not like earthly bigness, right? Because that feels too tethered. It's something more than that. It comes from, it feels like it comes from somewhere else. Do you relate to that or not?

Jason Blitman: 34:30

I do, but it's overwhelming. It's not dissimilar from can we change our fate? It's there, I have such a love hate relationship with the phrase, everything happens for a reason. Because I think that is a phrase that people use to justify tragedy and make people feel better when terrible things happen. It's not dissimilar from a bird pooping on you and someone saying, Oh, that's good luck. No, it's not good luck. It's, that's, you just say that because it makes the fact that a bird pooped on you easier to tolerate. I think that for me, I've had too many weird fortuitous things happen in a, in like weird sequential orders that I like have to believe in cosmic bigness and that there is a greater something happening in the cosmos that is not as grounded as earth bigness. That's what it meant to me when I was reading that phrase and thinking about Yeah, it's not quote unquote everything happening for a reason, it's just cosmically, things are moving in this way.

Kate Fagan: 35:43

Yes. Kind of Back to consciousness, if we could, but no, but like a joint consciousness, but cosmos. Yeah. I get that. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 35:51

cosmos ness. To that end, there's a conversation about finality being this scary thing and avoiding. endings. And it's so funny because for me, I on one hand couldn't put this book down and on the other hand didn't want to keep picking it back up because if I picked it back up that meant that it was going to end soon. And I like wanted to keep learning about Kate's story but I had to finish it to talk to you today. But I like didn't want to and it made me think about when I was a kid, I would I'd read the last page of a book first, because, I don't know, I had this like morbid thing of God forbid something happens to me or the book or whatever, and I like won't get to the ending, I like want to know how it ends, and of course reading the last page or the last paragraph or whatever, it would never mean anything to me but I was definitely feeling some sort of way about the book finishing, and, I think some of it is because I wanted Kate to be okay. And I'll leave it at that.

Kate Fagan: 36:57

I'm really glad that you wanted to keep reading but didn't want it to end. I think I, I feel like book, the ending of books are just really well, I guess endings are really hard, but in general, I feel like the ending in a book is you can't give everybody what they want, but you also

Jason Blitman: 37:20

Mm.

Kate Fagan: 37:20

The simplest way I can explain how like writing the ending to this book felt because I wanted to give people as much as they, that I could give them of the end. There is an earlier ending to this book that like is a lot less like I, because I just felt like I, I feel like I told everybody so much. And like my writing of it didn't feel like my writing of the ending felt like it was always going to pale in comparison to what you might imagine. To be, whether it's like the moment you want for her. And so I was like, I really, I guess this is all me giving a therapy session now, but deeply, I struggled with the end of this book for lots of reasons. Like one was, I didn't want to keep, I didn't want to write more. Cause I was like, every time I finished a chapter that was like an end chapter. And I was like, phew, I made it through that without fucking it up. And then if, an editor was like, I think we need a scene from, so and so's point of view, I'd be like, no, that's just more chance for me to fuck this up. It's so just, it's every time I got through a chapter, I was like, we should be done because I think, I don't think I can keep writing this in a way that's going to satisfy people or even come close to what I hope they can feel. If they filled in the gaps themselves. I toyed around with it a lot.

Jason Blitman: 38:38

That makes me think of a not plot device per se, but there's a game that Annie and Amanda play in the book that I don't know if I'm calling this universe games or if they call it universe games, but I will call it universe games. The idea is I think the example in the book is if they walk into the diner and if the person's or the pizza place and the guy says, hi, they'll order a cheese pizza. But if the guy says anything other than hi, then they're going to order a pepperoni pizza. And it almost sounds like what you're describing is this universe game. If you if an editor says you have to do this thing, then, oh, that means you're gonna have to then tell the story from this direction, or whatever. Do you play universe games?

Kate Fagan: 39:20

I do play universe games, that's for sure. I try to do it less and less, but yeah. I, and I think, there's definitely pieces of K. k. that I relate to. And one of them is just the pure release of giving over a choice to the universe. Or just like as or as a way to distract yourself or just as a way to give into whatever kind of like spinning thoughts you have. Think that whole, the whole universe game thing we definitely added more and more of it into the book. Cause once it first made an appearance, it felt like the kind of thing that you should probably draw through and have the character like use in ways to make choices. that kind of wormed its way into the book. Like initially it was just like, oh, I'm going to humor myself by putting one universe game in just to scratch an itch that like, hey, anybody that's out there that does crazy shit like this, you're going to feel seen in this interaction. And then it went from there.

Jason Blitman: 40:17

Yeah, is there something, is there like one in particular that comes to mind for you, like in your real life that you've played?

Kate Fagan: 40:24

It's usually a form of counting for me. It might be like if seriously, something like so nuanced is as a kid, like driving past the threshold of a graveyard and like seeing how many times I could like rhythmically tap my foot. If I get to 20, then I'm safe. It might be something just so simple as that. And then that occupies my mind for a, the next couple minutes. I'm very invested in it. And it's a game. Something as simple as that. I probably did every car ride as a kid. Which not necessarily the best being everything will be okay if you get to 20. Because I'm not sure what the downside of that was gonna be.

Jason Blitman: 41:01

Yeah, I know that's, I think I would do that too, but I never had a negative thing, right? So I would, the first thing that comes to mind is I would in my, the first card that I had, there was a digital speedometer. And if I. And if I was pulling up to a red light, my goal would be to not let the speedometer get down to zero. But yeah. But obviously there would be no cars around me where I I wouldn't play with a car behind me. Yeah, that was the first thing that comes to mind. But right. If I hit zero, I didn't have a, then something bad would happen, but I would play a version of that game.

Kate Fagan: 41:35

Yes. Yes. That, those are I can see myself playing that exact game and in fact now I will.

Jason Blitman: 41:43

I know. It's funny cause I grew up and drove and then lived for a very long time in cities where I didn't need to drive and now I'm driving again. And so every once in a while I do find myself doing it. I was like, Oh, this is really funny. Tapping into a younger version of Jason.

Kate Fagan: 41:58

Yep. Yep.

Jason Blitman: 42:00

Julia Roberts in Notting Hill was Annie's

Kate Fagan: 42:04

Yes.

Jason Blitman: 42:05

let's call it the Ring of Keys moment. What was your What was Kate's? What was What

Kate Fagan: 42:12

Yes. Probably that. I feel like I'm one of those authors who's this is not a memoir, but

Jason Blitman: 42:18

You are You're truly not alone. Everyone is like, This is nothing about me, but every single detail comes from my life.

Kate Fagan: 42:24

Yes. No, I was obsessed with Julia Roberts and Notting Hill, could not figure out what was going on. Cause it was not, I wasn't sure then, like what it all meant. I knew deep down what it meant, but like on the surface, it was like, I had just allowed myself to watch that movie and not stress about what it might mean for me, who I might need to tell about this, and just let myself just enjoy watching her in that movie. So yes, definitely not a character. Julia Roberts.

Jason Blitman: 42:53

I think that's a good answer. I went to London one time, and I had to go to Notting Hill because I loved the movie so much that I just like, Yes, and I want to say I didn't go in, but I took a picture of the plaque outside.

Kate Fagan: 43:11

And you have it still, I'm sure.

Jason Blitman: 43:12

I don't know why I didn't go in. I don't know. It doesn't matter. Do you shower after a flight?

Kate Fagan: 43:16

Yes. Do you shower after a flight?

Jason Blitman: 43:19

I do.

Kate Fagan: 43:20

Do you know people who don't? Or so far my data point is like four people have and one person was confused by the question, but they were foreign. Not that I'm just mean like different cultural

Jason Blitman: 43:31

Sure. It's interesting. I will say, I like, got home from a flight the other day, and I didn't like, immediately go into the shower, but I, within a reasonable time of getting home, took a shower.

Kate Fagan: 43:43

Yeah. I will say, I usually don't get home from flights too early, but I don't think it's like I need to shower immediately, but I will not get into bed without after a flight without showering just way. No. How?

Jason Blitman: 43:54

no. No. This is contextual for the book, if you could tell young Kate Fagan one piece of advice, what would it be?

Kate Fagan: 44:04

I really, I'm not sure anything would help young Kate, But probably probably the biggest thing I feel like affects young version of me is enjoyment of life is just like a distinct lack of patience about for everything, Like always needing to be where they're not. Obviously I still deal with that just from, on a day to day basis, I'm always like, I'm not the person who, when they stay over at a friend's house, if they're leaving the next day, I'm not like, lingering, I'm not like, we're not like, doing eggs and hanging out, we're not like, gonna take a walk, it's Oh no, I have a transition I'm going through today to go home it's happening immediately. Um, And I feel like that is so, so young me like, and I've gotten a lot better at it trying to be, like, actually present for the in between moments, but I would definitely tell young Kate to get a head start on that. Cause it's It's not the best asset. It's not an asset At all.

Jason Blitman: 45:00

And again, that is a question that gets asked in the

Kate Fagan: 45:03

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And somehow relates to me.

Jason Blitman: 45:06

and finally, I have to know, what are if there are other lives that Kate Fagan lives. Yeah

Kate Fagan: 45:20

I guess I will say that I think one thing that comes out in the book, but I didn't intend to do this, is that you really see Kate Kay's lives through, and they happen to be decades. You really get to see her friendship with Amanda growing up, and then the relationship she falls into for a period of time in that next chunk of her life, and then you get to see her as she, at least from a society perspective, succeeds. And I think I look back on my life and I'm like sometimes I'm like, what have I even done with my life? And then I'm like when I was 30, I was living in, Philadelphia and I was working for this newspaper. And I'm like, a lot has happened in this 10 years. Or then I go back to when I was 20. And so I, it's, I feel like there's a whole part of my life where I was like a basketball player. And that's all I cared about. And I don't even know who that person is anymore. Think even though the plot points are a lot less dramatic than in Kate K's life, I very much relate to the concept of there being versions of me and I truly cannot understand what they were feeling and thinking and how they like lived that certain way, whether it was like a person they were dating or just like loving a thing that I no longer love. But

Jason Blitman: 46:36

The multiple lives that Kate K lives. So much of them are about self preservation and protection. And I think it had me thinking about just the lives that we can live. and how it's okay that we all live multiple lives, whether they're for protection or not. And we could just go through our time in this cosmic bigness space as all of the things that come our way. I've said many times my background is in theater. I was a theater kid my whole life and now I'm a book person, and the theater life feels so far away. And it's okay that we evolve and grow and change. And I think I think it's okay for Kate Kay to evolve and grow and change too.

Kate Fagan: 47:21

I hope so. I really hope that readers leave. It's been a surprise to me that not everybody loves her, which is so strange considering some of her choices. And but I always thought she was pretty lovable. And I do. That is the hope I have for readers is that they see this book as filled with love and not just like messiness, because I, those two things seem pretty intertwined to me.

Jason Blitman: 47:47

Yeah. She does say in her first chapter that she's worried people are going to be mad at her or aren't going to like her for the things she has to say. So I can see why people might be frustrated with her.

Kate Fagan: 47:59

It's possible.

Jason Blitman: 48:01

Or disappointed, or, and it's interesting because I feel like to have such strong feelings toward a fictional character, you almost have to like them to some degree to care that

Kate Fagan: 48:12

Yeah. You have to relate to them on some level. If you're not invested in they're the things that they say and do. So that's good.

Jason Blitman: 48:21

Oh my god. Well, Kate Fagan, congratulations. The three lives of Kate K. I couldn't put it down, and yet wanted to put it down, but simply because I didn't want it to end.

Kate Fagan: 48:32

I love it. I love it. Thanks Jason.

Kathryn Budig: 48:34

Okay.

Jason Blitman: 48:35

Because, as I'm sure You have

Kathryn Budig: 48:38

is the best content right here. This is the good stuff.

Jason Blitman: 48:41

This is the good stuff. How you doing today?

Kathryn Budig: 48:45

I'm really stressed out, if we're being completely honest. I have shoulder surgery on Monday. Yeah, this is about everything. I like my bursa, my rotator cuff. I have two tears. They have to reattach my bicep tendon. It's going to be like a deli shop. It's going to be bad.

Jason Blitman: 49:03

I'm so sorry.

Kathryn Budig: 49:05

It's okay. You know, a A step towards healing instead of just being in pain. At least it's like the step towards healing.

Jason Blitman: 49:11

I was actually going to say at least there is. something to be done

Kathryn Budig: 49:15

yes. So it's going to be good. It's going to suck and then it'll be good. It has to get worse before it gets better or something like that. I don't know.

Jason Blitman: 49:24

Do you have your TBR pile

Kathryn Budig: 49:27

Oh my god, yes, and I'm a little concerned because am I gonna be like, how do I hold a book with one hand? So I don't know maybe I'm gonna have to put stuff on my kindle But I only have 10 million books that I need to read so i'm gonna

Jason Blitman: 49:41

of course.

Kathryn Budig: 49:41

to take this opportunity to finally catch up. Not how you thought we'd start this podcast, was it?

Jason Blitman: 49:48

I never know how I'm going to start the podcast. So this is like both exactly how I thought and at the same time.

Kathryn Budig: 49:57

You're

Jason Blitman: 49:58

I'm excited for you. Everything is going to be totally fine. Oh, I'm a glass half full optimistic person, which is maybe a bad thing,

Kathryn Budig: 50:06

No, I need that I actually could use that because everyone I've spoken to who's had the surgery, they're like, Oh my God, it sucks. It's so bad.

Jason Blitman: 50:13

It probably does suck. And it probably is so bad. But I like have tendonitis in my knee, I have tendonitis in my thumb, I get gout, and there are only so many things that can help with those things, so if I knew that I had to have like terrible surgery that I had to get through in order to never have those pains again, I would do it. So I'm like very much on board, everything's gonna be great, but like in a year, and then it'll be behind you, it's going to really suck, but

Kathryn Budig: 50:42

When you get a

Jason Blitman: 50:43

we are here for you.

Kathryn Budig: 50:44

from your new BFF, aka me, being like, tell me optimistic things again. Although it would be with one hand, I'll be punching it.

Jason Blitman: 50:53

Or talk to type. That's what talk to type is for. Yes. Oh my God. As Kate is like slowly reading books to you.

Kathryn Budig: 51:02

I know. Slow down.

Jason Blitman: 51:05

I don't understand the words you're saying. Okay. Kathryn, thank you for being my guest gay reader today. Welcome to Gays Reading.

Kathryn Budig: 51:13

so honored.

Jason Blitman: 51:14

this happens all the time where I like start kibitzing and then forget to introduce the person. This is one of those moments. You're all over the place. I'm obsessed with you. You have inspired me greatly. And I say that like within the last 24 hours of me consuming your content. I say this because you are a yogi with a huge platform championing body positivity and not health but but mental health in relation to who you are as a human. You have this fabulous platform called House of Phoenix that is this poo poo platter of all the things that one might, need to consume in their lives that has also transformed into Inky Phoenix, which is your book imprint. You are a writer, but I think my favorite thing about you is that you are at your core, in your heart and soul, A musical theater girly.

Kathryn Budig: 52:16

Oh yes, yes, while you dug deep, I'm here for it.

Jason Blitman: 52:20

Yes. That is also my background is in theater. So

Kathryn Budig: 52:25

What was your signature roll? What was, come on, what was

Jason Blitman: 52:30

I, okay. So I've transformed into. producer and director. But for my whole life and still to this day, if somebody offered me this role, I would say, get me back on stage yesterday. And that is Captain Hook and Peter

Kathryn Budig: 52:47

Oh my god, yes, I did not see that coming, and I love that.

Jason Blitman: 52:52

A hundred percent. Get me on the stage, cut off my hand.

Kathryn Budig: 52:57

Yes, have a little crocodile following you around all the time, feeling stressed out. Oh, love

Jason Blitman: 53:03

What about you? What was your role? What was the thing?

Kathryn Budig: 53:06

Sally Bowles, baby. That was like the pinnacle. Getting to play Sally was, oh, just like I finally got to my inner hot mess became my outer hot mess. And it was a highlight. It was an absolute highlight.

Jason Blitman: 53:21

That's amazing. What are, so you've played Sally Bowles. Do you have a dream role? Again, you're not in musical theater anymore, but if someone said, Kathryn, want you to play this role, what would you do? What would you do?

Kathryn Budig: 53:33

Okay, I was of the era when Rent was just the show. I was obsessed I'm a little white girl, so I can't play Mimi, but oh my God, Mimi, I just love that character so

Jason Blitman: 53:47

like, really giving Maureen.

Kathryn Budig: 53:49

I, okay, that's where I was going next. And like being the gay bee that I am, I feel like I could really lean into that and give my heart and soul. I don't know. Just any, honestly, any role in Rent would have just been a dream come true. I can't ever get that out of my soul. I love that.

Jason Blitman: 54:08

Okay. I love this for you. I'm very much on this journey for you. Things that you didn't know you were going to talk about

Kathryn Budig: 54:12

no, I love it. It's like past, past life conversations.

Jason Blitman: 54:16

So before we talk about other things and more things that you're doing, because you are my guest gay reader, Kathryn, I have to ask, what are you reading?

Kathryn Budig: 54:23

I am currently reading Sister Snake, is what I'm reading. And it's by Amanda Lee

Jason Blitman: 54:31

Co. Yeah.

Kathryn Budig: 54:32

and it's this reimagining about this famous myth of the white snake and these two women who find a way to transform themselves. Two snakes that find a way to transform themselves into women. And I love a mythological reimagining. That is my absolute favorite. Cersei, Madeline Miller is at the top of my pantheon. Anyone who can take A story that everyone knows and give it that fresh spin. And I am just devouring this. Amanda is such a great writer. It's queer and modern and a little uneasy and sexy and I, it's fantastic and probably going to be the next Inky Phoenix pic. You heard it here first.

Jason Blitman: 55:16

For your book club.

Kathryn Budig: 55:17

Yeah, reading. And then I'm reading so many manuscripts. That's the problem because I have an imprint now. And the end of the year where you collect your little pile of all the books you read, and everyone's I read more than you. I've read so many books, but no one else has read them because they're manuscripts. I'm just not reading published books as much as I want to. I'm absolutely loving that. You I am super, super pumped about V. E. Schwab's lesbian toxic lesbian vampire

Jason Blitman: 55:44

Vampires!

Kathryn Budig: 55:45

oh my god, all of my buzzwords!

Jason Blitman: 55:47

I'm so

Kathryn Budig: 55:48

and I have an ARC upstairs, and it is like a thick boy. So that one I'm saving, cause I don't think that comes out until June. But I love Victoria, she's a phenomenal human. Speak of someone who like does it all she's oh, I read 30 books and wrote a hundred thousand words And it's only like wednesday

Jason Blitman: 56:07

I know.

Kathryn Budig: 56:08

And then I just picked up this one. Have you read this one yet?

Jason Blitman: 56:11

No, a dark and drowning tide. Tell me more.

Kathryn Budig: 56:14

This was recommended. I did a roundup at the end of the year for Inky Phoenix, and Ava Reed recommended this one, author of Lady Macbeth, and also Susan J. Morris, my author for Strange Beast, recommends this. And it's just, let's see, a sharp tongued folklorist must pair up with her academic rival to solve their mentor's murder in this lush and enthralling sapphic fantasy romance from the New York Times bestseller. So it's just, Look, you say sapphic, I'm like, give it to me. Put it on

Jason Blitman: 56:47

Did you read The Safe Keep by Yael Van Der Wouden?

Kathryn Budig: 56:50

No, why don't I know this?

Jason Blitman: 56:52

Okay, you like, honestly, go to the store, buy it right now, and read it before surgery. It's short. It is called The Safe Keep by Yael Van Der Wouden. I have been calling it, Sapphic, Call Me By Your Name.

Kathryn Budig: 57:05

Okay oh, yes,

Jason Blitman: 57:06

It's literary and slightly gothic and slightly mysterious. And, honestly, as I said this to her when she was on Gay's Reading, I was like, I questioned my sexuality when I was reading some of these sex scenes, because I was like, this is

Kathryn Budig: 57:21

Wow.

Jason Blitman: 57:23

I know.

Kathryn Budig: 57:23

Wow,

Jason Blitman: 57:25

my gift to you.

Kathryn Budig: 57:27

Thank

Jason Blitman: 57:27

healing.

Kathryn Budig: 57:29

I'm gonna be like hurt and horny. laughing

Jason Blitman: 57:34

what I call Tuesday. Okay, wait, what was this journey to your imprint and then imprint to

Kathryn Budig: 57:41

Yes, my baby.

Jason Blitman: 57:42

strange bees? Yes. Tell us.

Kathryn Budig: 57:44

I'd always it's similar to my wife, Kate Fagan. I have led a very ambitious life and I'm trying to dissect exactly what ambition means and does it make us happy? But I think. And you relate to this, I'm sure. I think if you are a creator and you are a creative person, it's impossible to not have ambitions because you just, you have so much inside of you that you want to give to the world that you want to put out. And so there's always in the back of my head, I've always wanted to be a novelist, but I've told myself, the typical story, like you can't do that. Like those are for the gods. Only the touched, can actually write novels. Cause to me, it's just the most amazing thing in the world when someone can. Capture the magic of a story with beautiful words and put it on paper and change people's lives It's just wow. Wow. Wow. Wow and to think that I could do that. Oh no So i've told myself that story my entire life and i've only unraveled that in the past couple years. Started the book club in 2020, like right before the world shut down

Jason Blitman: 58:49

Wow.

Kathryn Budig: 58:50

and I loved it so much that I, and I was leading, I was doing the podcast with Kate, we had free cookies and we were interviewing all these amazing authors and just really immersing ourselves in the literary world. And so I started to think Oh, it would be. Amazing to publish books like me. I don't know if I have what it takes to write them But what if I could publish them and then matt k who's the founder of bindery books? He sent me, like on my info email and the first one I didn't even get it and he emailed me again And I finally was like okay. And we started this conversation and he came from Patreon and he had the background of okay, community. And when we pull community together and he saw what was happening on book talk and the power of these bookish folk being able to bump sales, he's what if we create. This community and publishing model where we take community, the power of community and the power of the people who are not interested in trends. They are interested in the stories that are hot and elevating stories that need to be heard. And we create something out of that. And I was like, yes! And a year later, I became an acquiring editor and I have my own imprint. And it's crazy! It is crazy! And I just thought this was going to be like a side gig. And now I'm full blown running two different businesses. And sometimes I'm like, what have I done to myself? But it is so rewarding and publishing Strange Beasts. I've got my next one is coming out in October. Another one in November. And it's just they keep on coming now. And it is so amazing to highlight these debut authors the submission process, it is not easy. There is such a small percentage of people who can even get an agent, and then get read, and then acquired. And it just feels so good to know that I can somehow have a little piece of getting these beautiful voices into the world. It's Thrilling.

Jason Blitman: 1:00:46

That's so cool. And so Strange Beasts by Susan J. Morris. I have heard. is Arthur Conan Doyle meets Dracula?

Kathryn Budig: 1:00:58

Yes, so Sherlock Holmes and Dracula are two main characters. We have Hel, Helena Moriarty, so she's the daughter of the famed Moriarty. And then we have Samantha Harker, who's the daughter of Jonathan and Mina Harker from Dracula. And it's sapphic, oh yes, but it's slow burn. Think of your classic sapphic movies where, you know, they just like stare at each other for a long time, and then their pinkies touch, like total lesbian stuff, that's what we do. It's, set in turn of the century, Paris and they monster hunt. And so they get sent to Paris to solve these beast murders, where there's this almost like werewolf tearing apart men, only men, in Paris. And they have to go, go through the catacombs and all of the nooks and crannies of Paris to find the murderer. And meanwhile, there's this slow burn romance happening through it all. It's fabulous. It's so good.

Jason Blitman: 1:01:53

Speaking of fabulous queer books, we have not yet started. said that you may or may not be married to Kate Fagan, this episode's featured author and her new book, The Three Lives of Kate K.

Kathryn Budig: 1:02:07

It's wild!

Jason Blitman: 1:02:09

it's wild.

Kathryn Budig: 1:02:10

good, and the success that she's experiencing, y'all, I just, being this close to the dream, like just watching it happen right in front of me. Wow. She's Reese's Pick, she's Book of the Month, she's

Jason Blitman: 1:02:23

of the month. Stupid. Come on.

Kathryn Budig: 1:02:26

Oh my god, Jason, when we went into the airport, we're starting tour, we're in Charleston, we go into our Hudson News, and BAM, it's right there, and we're like, oh my god, and then we get to the next airport, literally every airport, it's just there, it's everywhere. It's just, how does this happen? It's, I'm so proud of her. I am so proud of her. And it's also, what I said earlier, we're trying to renegotiate our relationship to success. And it's honestly what her book is about to her book is about success. Her book is about ambition and the price that you pay and getting to see this happen to her in real life. We were. Finishing up after the fifth event or whatever it was and we got back to the hotel. I was like, so How's success feel and she's honestly, I just want to be home with you and Ragnar. That's our dog We don't have a tiny Viking at home. I'm just a dog and

Jason Blitman: 1:03:17

Listen, if you did, no judgments.

Kathryn Budig: 1:03:19

Right. All of a sudden it's like half naked guy runs by me like

Jason Blitman: 1:03:22

I was like, were those horns? What's going on?

Kathryn Budig: 1:03:25

My battleaxe Yeah, so it's just it's been fascinating. And I, I think with authors, a lot of, and you interview them all the time, and my experience too is so many of them are reclusive because they don't, Want this, they literally have chosen this career so they can stay behind the computer instead of being in front of the camera and how you can build a successful career without needing to be on the road and

Jason Blitman: 1:03:54

Yeah,

Kathryn Budig: 1:03:54

Oh, wow, it's just it's been unbelievable. Everybody. You have to read the book. It's so good. My wife is so talented I'm, so proud of her

Jason Blitman: 1:04:01

Because you are a reader, is there any, do you have any grievances you have to get off your chest right now? And

Kathryn Budig: 1:04:07

Oh, is the library open?

Jason Blitman: 1:04:09

the library is, listen, this is just a safe space. If anyone has to this, this is your time.

Kathryn Budig: 1:04:16

Okay. I think the thing that really ruffles my feathers is when you see book influencers being like, these were the top five books that I hated, and they just, and I know that kind of like the library is open and that's the whole point. Look, do you know how hard it is to write a book? These people, even if it totally sucks, and look, yeah, some of them, I get it, they do, or it's not your cup of tea, but to just trash someone's work, I can't, and then they tag the people? What are you doing? I, it makes me so mad. But even the ranking system on Goodreads, I'm like, we need more specificity. You are only allowed to give below three stars if you write a corresponding review to specifically say why you feel this way. I just, I think it's cruel and unusual.

Jason Blitman: 1:05:06

I have my issues with the website that you order things from that shall not be named. However, I will say it is great that they, that it like tells you that there's a verified purchase. This person actually has

Kathryn Budig: 1:05:21

hater.

Jason Blitman: 1:05:23

Yeah. No, I feel this. And also It just isn't for you. Somebody read it and it got published. So clearly people like it,

Kathryn Budig: 1:05:33

Oh my god, I have to read you something and I'm gonna try to find it really fast because it's a meme That I was sent to me the other day. Okay ready? All right One reason why you very rarely see me complaining that the actions of a fictional character don't make sense Is because every single day I look back at my own choices in life and realize i'm just not qualified to judge that and I like that's been an insecurity for my wife because people keep saying that the characters in her book are messy. And she jokes, and maybe she talked to you about this, she's I didn't think they were messy when I was writing them. She's I'm just Writing people making real decisions, which are often not smart. And, as a real person, you just don't put it out into the world. And so some of the reviews have been like, I don't like these characters, they are like, doing horrible things those are real people.

Jason Blitman: 1:06:25

Yeah. And it's not Kate's job to, to judge her characters either.

Kathryn Budig: 1:06:30

Yes. And so that's another thing where people complain about that. I'm like, okay, it's just not for you. Doesn't mean it's a bad book. It's just not for you.

Jason Blitman: 1:06:38

And also it's fiction.

Kathryn Budig: 1:06:41

I know. Well, Do we want to read a book about someone who made really good decisions and is a great person who like donates and flosses? Boring

Jason Blitman: 1:06:49

let's also say it's important to floss but you're right. Who does it every single day?

Kathryn Budig: 1:06:54

Every day.

Jason Blitman: 1:06:54

Literally no one. Come on. No, but absolutely. And because if somebody read that, they would say, That's not real life. No one's that perfect. So you can't make everybody happy, but I think you're absolutely right. Somebody read it. It was for somebody. It got published, period. You could just say it's not for you. And that is, oh,

Kathryn Budig: 1:07:14

And you know who it is for? Reese motherfuckin Witherspoon, OKAY? Heh heh. Bend, and snap. Oh.

Jason Blitman: 1:07:22

and the gajillions of Target shoppers around the world. So

Kathryn Budig: 1:07:27

God bless

Jason Blitman: 1:07:28

on everybody else.

Kathryn Budig: 1:07:29

I know, right? Wow.

Jason Blitman: 1:07:31

Katherine, this has been so much fun.

Kathryn Budig: 1:07:34

I'm so glad I'm connected with you. Okay we're gonna make a dinner happen and you're not gonna combust. I, and I'm like really short in real life, so you'll be like, where is she? Oh, she's down there. Okay, that takes her down a little bit.

Jason Blitman: 1:07:46

Okay. I'm six two, so that'll make me, I will feel,

Kathryn Budig: 1:07:49

fit into your armpit. It'll be perfect.

Jason Blitman: 1:07:52

oh, good. I wear deodorant, so

Kathryn Budig: 1:07:54

That was my next question. Natural or the hardcore kind?

Jason Blitman: 1:07:58

Not the hardcore kind because like those, the aluminums are real. No, mine

Kathryn Budig: 1:08:04

activated charcoal one. Same. Same.

Jason Blitman: 1:08:08

I am, I'm not sponsored by Schmitz, but I should be because I'm a very huge supporter of them.

Kathryn Budig: 1:08:14

I love

Jason Blitman: 1:08:15

you're, anyone from Schmitz, if you're listening,

Kathryn Budig: 1:08:17

want to help out this podcast,

Jason Blitman: 1:08:19

I know, I make zero dollars, Schmitz. I will happily take any amount of money from you. Thank you for joining me on Gay's Reading. Kathryn Budig. It is Budig, right?

Kathryn Budig: 1:08:30

Yes, you said it no one says it right. Wow. Bravo.

Jason Blitman: 1:08:33

Great. Everyone go check out Strange Beasts, which is her baby, the book that she's published in her imprint. And also, where can the people find you and your house of things?

Kathryn Budig: 1:08:44

Yes. The easiest is just to go to katherinebutig. com because that'll connect you to everything. And then there's the House of Phoenix. It's H A U S because, we fancy like that. And then the Inky

Jason Blitman: 1:08:55

like going to a shop. S-H-O-P-P-E.

Kathryn Budig: 1:08:58

Yes, you get it. Yes.

Jason Blitman: 1:09:02

Where did you buy the House of Phoenix book? At the bookshop.

Kathryn Budig: 1:09:06

Get the job back!

Jason Blitman: 1:09:07

AmazinKathrynine beauty.com. It'll be in the show notes. Everyone go check it out. And obviously the three lives of Kate K.

Kathryn Budig: 1:09:18

Get it. Dude, do the right thing, it's gonna make you happy. And if you don't like it, don't talk about it on the reviews, okay?

1:09:24

Thanks, Catherine Thanks Kate everyone again. Thank you so much for joining me today. Sending good vibes to everybody. Links to all of the things are in the show notes, take care of yourselves, have a great rest of your day. And I will see you next week. Bye.