Jason Blitman: 0:06

This is a very special, using the word bonus sounds so strange to me, but I don't really know another way to say it, but let's call it a an auxiliary episode, an additional episode of Gay's Reading with my very special guest, Logan Lochner, who came to my attention one of my dear friends and a wonderful listener of Gay's Reading texted me a New York Magazine article that I would argue is awkwardly titled What They Grabbed, and it shared stories of folks about what they took when they were fleeing the fires in L. A. And Logan's story was a part of it. And he, I will let him speak to what, what it is he took but that is how he came to my attention. And Ashley said, you should have him on as a guest gay reader. And I was like, I don't want him as a guest gay reader. This is so much more important than that. So I am here in this special episode with Logan to really talk about the power of books. So Logan, welcome to Yeah,

Logan Lockner: 1:18

Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Yeah, it's been a wild week and a half or whatever. It feels much longer than just Um,

Jason Blitman: 1:29

imagine. How are you doing?

Logan Lockner: 1:31

I'm doing, all things considered, I'm doing really well. And I do want to say, just for the record I am fine in the large scheme of things. My husband and I evacuated last week for around 24 hours, which is when I grabbed what I grabbed. But we came back to our apartment in East Hollywood. within 24 hours and have been here armed with air purifiers ever since. So by no means am I speaking as a representative of the most extreme devastation that has happened, and I just want to be clear about that. I think part of what I really, part of what was really compelling about Adrian's article to me, the one that you mentioned in New York, or in Curb, New York Magazine is that kind of it's about, That moment when you don't know whether or not your home is going to survive and you're in that dilemma of choosing what to take. And to me, that's like the heart of the story. It's not really about whether or not things get, because a certain number of people have had their homes destroyed, but an even larger number of people have been in that crisis moment of deciding what's important. And I think that's what the story was really about. Just to I don't know, I just wanted to give that focus, and even talking to her for the article, I was just like, this all feels so small, to be like, I love Virginia Woolf, and this is why I grabbed this book, compared to all the suffering and loss that's happened, but I appreciate the opportunity to, there's something just really human, and it's a moment to reflect on the things in the ways in which our things, like the, our possessions are more than objects, and I think Many of us are aware of a sort of self conscious critique of like consumer culture or whatever, commercialism. But our stuff does matter to us. And it was like a moment to reflect on that, that I appreciated.

Jason Blitman: 3:26

For me, I was really just being disparaging about the title. I think that,

Logan Lockner: 3:29

yeah. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 3:31

the article, I think is very special, and I think we, we, as people, are, I think often will think about. What would we grab? What is that thing? If we could only leave our home with our two hands, what, what would we grab? I guess, so maybe what we grab, what, what they grabbed is a good title.

Logan Lockner: 3:53

Oh, yeah, I wasn't even, yeah, I think, that's just internet journalism, maybe, just

Jason Blitman: 3:57

So, you, but you happened to grab a book.

Logan Lockner: 4:02

yeah. And I actually, I actually grabbed several books, only one, or a few, a handful. And then one made it in the article, but the book that I talked about with Adrian for the article was my copy of Virginia Woolf's to the lighthouse. Which I, as I said in the article, I think I first read this book the summer after I graduated from high school, if I'm not mistaken.

Jason Blitman: 4:27

You say, the summer after you graduated high school and you said it happened accidentally.

Logan Lockner: 4:31

So what I think, yeah, this was a little unclear maybe in the in the article, but It was also just funny I have worked pretty extensively as a writer and editor, so it was just very weird being on the other side of the interview being the person, even this experience, I'm like, I'm used to being on the other end of things so it's a little it feels like new territory. Anyways but what was unintentional was the fact that I read it at the beach uh, I knew that it took place at the beach, it was a book that I wanted to read, and I was just like, I'm just gonna take this with me but then it ended up, I think part of my point when I was talking about that in the article was like, or in the interview was like, this is the same copy that has probably, like particles of sand from the beach when I read it that first time, I think that was part of my point and also just a jokey irony of To the lighthouse as a beach read because it is literally a beach read in the sense that it takes place That if like at a vacation home, but it's not a beach read in the conventional sense at all

Jason Blitman: 5:33

Sure.

Logan Lockner: 5:35

but yeah, and so It had a really big impact on me then thinking back. I mean in a lot of this I hadn't really even thought about super consciously in a long time Thinking back. I do think it's the first wolf novel that I read, probably like the first large, more than an essay or whatever of hers that I had read. And then she went on to become like a super important figure for me, and especially when I was an undergrad studying English. Like most of my, I was pretty focused on her. So it was a book that, because of that, it was a book that I read like multiple times again for school. At least two or three more times, and so like with this particular copy, and this was This is the sentimental value to me but with each successive reading, I would keep making notes or underlining or adding marginalia. So it has this to me it has this quality of layers, like strata

Jason Blitman: 6:29

hmm. It's almost like the equivalent of an old house where the kids are, check their heights as they grow, right? Your marginalia changes as you get older and I imagine you see pieces of your former self in the margin.

Logan Lockner: 6:46

yeah, well and also uh, see, see those former selves but then also don't recognize, like sometimes I'll see a note and I'm like, I have no idea what I was talking about here. Which is also funny. And yeah it just became a really wolf overall, but then specifically to the lighthouse, became really important to me, and I there isn't much in terms of plot, but essentially, it's the story of a family the Ramses, And then a series of houseguests of theirs as they stay at their vacation home on the Isle of Skye. Which is loosely based on some experiences Wolf had growing up vacationing. And in this family, it's like the mother and the father and the children. And then their houseguests include Lily Briscoe, who's It's an artist the father in the family is a philosopher, so there are other philosophers around. And the novel is divided into three sections. The first section takes place, I believe, like all in one day, one afternoon and evening. The second section is called time passes and like 20 years pass. And then the third section also just takes place on one afternoon. And It's both very intimate and very vast in scope. It's and that kind of play between scale is like part of point, but beyond that, there is not a lot of plot. There's a dinner party in the first section. A lot of the things that we would consider like traditional plot moments occur in that time passes section and are glossed over. And really, it's, it is, it's extremely it's definitely part of that modernist lineage, and does have a lot of stream of consciousness narration I think it's a lot more, to me at least, it's a lot more accessible and readable than Ulysses, or,

Jason Blitman: 8:41

Hmm.

Logan Lockner: 8:42

know it's it's a version of stream of consciousness that feels more lyrical, than deliberately esoteric or difficult. And it's a, in many ways, it's a novel about perception and like the tiny moments of perception in interpersonal relationships. Yeah, I don't know if I should say more than that or if that made sense, but

Jason Blitman: 9:04

it does. I think I'm curious to know what is it that brings you back to the book again and again.

Logan Lockner: 9:09

Yeah maybe to offer, and this was part of the reason I took

Jason Blitman: 9:14

I was just gonna say, here's actually, maybe let's start on a macro level. You could have taken anything in your apartment, but you, you took books with you. And so I guess maybe a good place to start is why books? What, what is it about just sort of books in general that was your instinct?

Logan Lockner: 9:34

Yeah, I don't know. That's, it's a funny question because to me, it's if any, like anyone who has known me, most of my entire, it would just be entirely obvious. I've been like an avid reader since, since I was like, seven as long as I could read independently, it's been like a big thing for me. And collecting books, like, I collected books as a kid, and then I went through that phase in maybe like late middle school, early high school, where you decide everything you read before was childish. Everything you liked before was childish and juvenile and embarrassing. But the great thing about used bookstores is that you can take all the things you're embarrassed about having on your shelves and then trade it for things that make you feel more educated or worldly as a 14 year old or whatever. It's not the same books that I've had since then, but I've been building a collection of, my personal library, which I'm sure like everyone listening to this podcast understands. And then this is like a little tangential, but it's pretty central to like my personal experience of all of this. But I only moved to LA from Atlanta like two years ago and not even two years ago at this point. And moving my books was like a big thing. Part of a big stressor there because even now, like most of my books, like 90 percent are still in storage. So the number of my books that I have with me, even in my apartment to grab is like incredibly limited.

Jason Blitman: 11:09

Dare I ask what the others were that you grabbed?

Logan Lockner: 11:12

yes. Uh, Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 11:15

Now I'm so curious.

Logan Lockner: 11:17

so one Of them was Rachel Kushner's Creation Lake. Which was my, maybe my favorite book I read last

Jason Blitman: 11:24

Huh.

Logan Lockner: 11:25

But it's a signed first edition That was like another, I also just love her. I love the flamethrowers her 20, I think 13 or 14 book Is also one of my favorites and had a really big impact on my life And what I chose to write about but she lives in LA also I love this book. The night that it was, or like the same, the day that it came out on its release date, she did a talk with, where she was like joined on stage by Kim Gordon and they're like actual friends, which was amazing. And they talked about the book and then she signed it. So again, that felt like it had a sentimental value. And then what else? And then the other book in my bag was a library book from school. I'm in grad school right now. And it's Dick Hebdige's subculture. So Dick Hebdige is a British cultural theorist. He was actually also, for a long time before I was there, was on faculty at CalArts, which is where I'm in grad school. That's not why I'm drawing on him for my work, but Yeah, so that's a book related to my

Jason Blitman: 12:35

That was so you didn't get the late fee.

Logan Lockner: 12:37

Partially, yeah

Jason Blitman: 12:39

I'm kidding,

Logan Lockner: 12:40

There was that element in my mind, but I also just, it's also just small. That's the other thing that like becomes really pressing in that moment where you're deciding is it's just what actually fits in a bag? So I don't know, but funnily enough, I thought some listeners to the show might appreciate this, but Dekevdige is the same person. Like Chris Krause's, I love Dick. He is the he's the real life dick from,

Jason Blitman: 13:08

Oh, funny. So it's just, it was those three.

Logan Lockner: 13:12

Yeah, it was those three we strange selection,

Jason Blitman: 13:14

Yeah, and the other books on your shelf.

Logan Lockner: 13:17

I was thinking about that when I was getting ready for this, but, so I also have a copy, my college copy also with like margin stuff of Virginia Wol Orlando, which is like another one of my favorite books. So I was thinking about that, like why did I grab. versus Orlando because both have been really important to me. Like the whole idea of picking a favorite seems reductive, but

Jason Blitman: 13:41

So what do you think it was?

Logan Lockner: 13:42

I think to the light like to the lighthouse, similar to what I was saying about it earlier, in a certain way, it's a book that feels like it contains the whole world, like in a way that only novels can do. Orlando, I also love and Obviously, Orlando, I think, has a readership and a kind of reputation much more related to queer identity and queer history. It's also a comedy in many ways, and when this was, was also part of what I wanted to say, but Wolf wrote Orlando immediately after To the Lighthouse somewhat intentionally to give herself a break from the philosophical seriousness and have a kind of. romp. Although, but at the same time, Orlando is also very philosophical in its own ways. But I guess if I were cut off from all of my life as I previously knew it and I only had one of the two to the lighthouse feels like it might have more to offer in that situation. I don't know why necessarily, but Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 14:54

Yeah, I have not read either book, but in my brief research, interesting to see that a major theme into the lighthouse is about coping with grief. So there's something very interesting too about just like having it as a source of comfort.

Logan Lockner: 15:11

Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 15:12

So you said you've been reading since you were a child and you just said Rachel Kushner's book was your fave of last year. What do you think it is about books that It's so meaningful to you.

Logan Lockner: 15:26

I think um, wow. I'm like, how uh, deeply like, therapy do we go here? Uh, I mean, I think when I was young, I was just an incredibly curious child and just the sheer fact that like books could answer my questions without me having to bother someone or having, I think crucially being able to ask questions without having to ask permission of whether or not they were permissible questions. was an important part of it. I think there's something really special about reading, and I've my appreciation for this has grown as I've gotten older, but there's this really paradoxical quality to reading where you're by yourself, you're in solitude generally, but you feel a kind of deep intimacy with another person. Specifically the author in a certain sense, but also a kind of intimacy or, like web of connection with everyone who's ever read this book, so there's something about that is to me like one of the most rewarding parts of being alive, like as a human being. Like I don't know, that sounds hyperbolic, but it's true I guess.

Jason Blitman: 17:01

Yeah.

Logan Lockner: 17:01

also I don't know, like I guess part of what I was trying to get at with the what questions are permissible or not. I think specifically like for this show, like as a queer kid in a growing up in an environment that, was not always receptive to questions about those topics, or open discussion of those topics. Reading was something that it was praised by teachers and parents, and in terms of the hobbies and interests I could have had as a child, it was, like, I could do whatever I want, as long as I had my nose in a book, they were like, okay, Logan's good. But then I could get away with a lot, Like I could read things that I was like way too young to read and have my worldview. I guess I haven't said this, but I grew up in a very homogenous, relatively culturally isolated rural community. And yeah. Maybe got the internet around like the age of 11 or 12 but books were my opportunity to imagine a life beyond what I immediately saw around me. Yeah, and I'm in hindsight, I'm super, I can't imagine like growing up with access to social media at. seven or eight or nine years old because I would not have developed the habits as a reader. I wouldn't have had the, and that's not a value judgment, like I just, it's not about, because it's not about necessarily personal will, it's just it blows my mind that things have changed so drastically in 30 years that I don't know if there's even the kind of opportunity for boredom that would compel people to become readers in the first place.

Jason Blitman: 18:49

Well, it's funny that you say that because I, I am a late in life reader. I only started reading six or seven years ago. And part of it, and I've shared this before is the, I always felt like I was behind in terms of what books were out, and I never felt like I could engage in a, in a meaningful conversation with books from 20 years ago or even five years ago at this point. And then I started reading advanced reader copies for a job that I had, and I was able to talk about a book in the moment. And so the more I was able to really see reading as this communal experience, even though it is also this very solitary experience, is when I started to think, Oh, wow, this is special.

Logan Lockner: 19:37

Totally.

Jason Blitman: 19:52

an adult.

Logan Lockner: 19:53

Yeah, and I guess I, there's so much conversation about this, but I think the, if I could distill it down to one point, it just, and it's not necessarily even, it is true of course that like, proverbially like representation matters and it was important for me to see books about queer characters, but I think just in the most simple, in the most basic sense. Books showed me that other ways of thinking were possible, and that there wasn't a single way of thinking or being in the world that was the right way, but that part of what made life beautiful and interesting and mysterious was that there are all these different ways of living, all these different ways of being in and interacting with the world and even just the fact of books All these different stories, all these different characters, all these different perspectives Seemed to me to be evidence of that In a kind of irrefutable way So that the kind of dogmatic or Traditional sort of worldview that I was being taught In my community, I was like Able to see that this was just one of many options In a way that I'm like super great I would not be the same person otherwise

Jason Blitman: 21:24

You're like the poster child of what people in publishing and authors hope, hope books do for people. That's really great. Okay, so you are a reader. I have to ask you, what are you reading now?

Logan Lockner: 21:38

Yeah, like I said, I am in grad school. So a lot of, and I'm graduating in May, so I'm working on my thesis. So I'm like actually having to buckle down on reading things for my thesis which the De Keptige book is. So a lot of things for that, which are more like. cultural studies, philosophy. So that might not be so interesting. I have also been reading Jorge Luis Borges, the Argentine writer. My thesis advisor is like a Borges scholar, so I've been revisiting some of those stories, which are I wanted to mention maybe just because they are precisely about what we've been talking about, this idea of being a reader and a writer And the sort of world of literature and what it can mean and what it can be, that's like what Warhouse is all about. Something else, so I, part of and the Rachel Kushner book, like part of the reason I really enjoyed that was that I was able to read it alongside doing schoolwork. The book is, it has a kind of spy thriller, like caper element, so that makes it really fun. It's written in these really short sections that are like just a few pages at a time, so that makes it really easy to read. But I'd say in general, my reading habits, I to do that, where maybe I'm reading something that Takes a little more brainpower and is a little more demanding and then I like to off and not that's not to say like The Rachel Kushner book was light next to my thesis. It was just more fun, I guess And then so along those lines another thing that I often do Especially like at the end of the semester when I'm just burnt out is I will read a bunch of comic books Which I'm always reading a comic book, but I did want to recommend in particular There's a book called The Deviant that came out, let's see. It's, I believe the last issue is being published this month or next month. But it's a gay horror Christmas comic. Written by James Tinian IV, who's a really big name in comics right now. He wrote Batman recently. He's, he got his name as a horror comics writer. And the art is by Joshua Hickson, I thought I would mention. But, I just wanted to mention this because As a queer person, I can't really remember the last time, actually, I saw the TV Glow really hit me, but this comic is in many ways about growing up as a queer person, as a gay boy in particular and learning seeing that the images were the, uh, representations of queerness that you see are always attached to deviancy or evil or violence and coming to terms with that as you get older. Yeah I don't want to spoil too much, but it's basically, yeah, it's basically like a serial killer dressed as Santa Claus who 30 years ago went on this killing spree and killed a bunch of gay men in this town. And now this writer who was a boy when that happened is like trying to figure out what went down. But yeah, I feel like I'm not describing it or selling it as well, but I'm just like, you would just have to read the first issue to get what I'm talking about, but it's,

Jason Blitman: 25:17

Let's see. The Deviant, Volume 1, Hannibal meets Silent Knight, Deadly Knight, in this pitch black holiday horror story that cuts right through our most taboo notions. That's the, the logline.

Logan Lockner: 25:31

it's pretty good.

Jason Blitman: 25:32

Cool. I'm very happy to know about this. This seems so not something that I would typically read, but I, that's part of why I love doing because new things get put on my radar. I am so grateful to hear your story and why you chose books and, and as, as, as something that you grabbed, quote, unquote, I like that's such a weird word. And I think for me, it showcases this power that books have that I'm only. as I just said, recently coming to learn. Once upon a time, I don't know that I even would have thought about grabbing a book from my shelf. And now there are absolutely things that I feel I would be really sad to part with for a lot of reasons. And so as a queer person, as a person with a clear reverence for books experiencing something that a lot of folks in this country have not experienced. In their actual life. I'm grateful that you were willing to share your story with me.

Logan Lockner: 26:41

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.

Jason Blitman: 26:44

Is there something that you feel like is worth sharing or noting or something to those of us who want to be supportive?

Logan Lockner: 26:52

One thing that I did want to mention that I was thinking about a lot, and this was all, this has already been a big part of my experience, like since moving to LA and being cut off from my own books is I, can I don't know if I may, I was going to be like, can I swear on this podcast, but I don't need to drop an F bomb.

Jason Blitman: 27:10

also can if you want to, but,

Logan Lockner: 27:12

was gonna say, I fucking love the L. A. Public Library It's been such an important part of my experience moving to L. A. It sounds, again, like I'm just being a poster child for this institution, but I really I had a hard time transitioning here and was just like really overwhelmed and stressed out for the first few months I was here. And it wasn't until I got my library card and was like able to go to a place that felt accessible, not expensive familiar that I really felt like, oh, there is like a place for me in this city. And Just knowing that, even as I was making, even as I was grabbing what I grabbed, just, I think even more than my own personal books, I was like, those books belong to all of us. I hope those are being taken care of, and even if I lose certain copies of my books, I appreciate knowing that there's always, I'm never going to not have access to books because of the library. And then I think this has gotten relatively widespread on social media, but they also, all LA Public Library locations have N95 masks now it really is I think the system really does go above and beyond in terms of not just being an excellent library, but serving the city in really thoughtful and impactful ways.

Jason Blitman: 28:37

yeah. I love that. So, I mean, everybody should be supporting their local library. It's, and if you don't know what's happening at your local library, it's worth doing some research, because I know my local library as well does incredible things. And also, you know, in the, in the two or three days following the fires, I think it was all I saw on social media. And now. at the time of recording, they're not 100 percent contained, and I'm not seeing it on social media in the way that I was immediately following. So part of this conversation, too, is sort of like keeping awareness in the air. There will be more resources in the show notes for folks to go to to see where they can put their resources, where they can help. And yeah, thank you again, Logan, for being here. I appreciate it.

Logan Lockner: 29:25

Yeah, of course, thanks for having me.