0:04

Gaze reading, where the greats drop by. Trendy authors tell us all the who, what, and why. Anyone can listen, cause we're spoiler free. Gaze reading. From poets and stars, to book club picks. Where the curious minds can get their fix. So you say you're not gay, well that's okay. There's something for everyone. Gaze reading. Mhm. Hello, and welcome to Gays Reading. I'm your host, Jason Blitman, and on today's episode I have Ira Madison III talking to me about his essay collection, Pure Innocent Fun, and I have Todd Almond talking to me about his book, Slow Train Coming, which tells the story of his experience opening Girl from the North Country City. The Broadway musical just days before COVID. Their bios are in the show notes. Hilariously, Ira and I talk about the musical, The Color Purple, and I mentioned seeing Jeanette Bayardell as Celie in the Chicago production. And Jeanette was in Girl from the North Country with Todd. And I happened to cut out an entire chunk of the conversation with Todd, where he and I gush about how talented she is and what an amazing person she is. Uh, so just so funny to me that these. Two people happen to be on the same episode. you can watch this conversation over on YouTube, the link to that channel, as well as the other social medias. Uh, you can find in the link tree on our Instagram, as well as in the show notes. We're on Instagram at GaysReading. And now over on Blue Sky as well. You can like and subscribe to Gay Is Reading wherever you get your podcasts. Not only does that help with the algorithm, but you will also be the first to know when a new episode drops. spoiler alert, I anticipate a handful of bonus episodes as I will be in conversation with some folks coming up this weekend at the Palm Springs Readers Festival. Lots of new books coming out today, in addition to Pure Innocent Fun, so many others to mention. There's, Isola by Allegra Goodman, Mutual Interest by Olivia Wolfgang Smith, The Lamb by Lucy Rose, Cleavage by Jennifer Finney Boylan. Spoiler alert! So many spoiler alerts on this, uh, little pre episode announcement. Uh, Jenny Boylan is the guest on next week's episode of Gays Reading, and she is terrific. Also coming out today, it is the paperback release of The Many Lives of Mama Love by Laura Love Harden. Laura was on Gays Reading in the past. I moderated her event in person back when her book came out, and she's also been a recent Oprah's book club pick. We love Lara Love Harden and The Many Lives of Mama Love was one of my favorite books last year. Highly recommend if you have not yet checked that out. Also out today, big day for books, uh, is Christina Clancy's The Snowbirds and I will be in conversation with Christy on February 19th at Warwick's in San Diego. if you've been listening, if you listened to the Nnedi Okorafor episode, you heard me hint, hint, hint that. Death of the author was gonna be an aardvark book club pic. Surprise surprise. It is. And you can get that book or any other book that you want from Aardvark Book Club for your first order, uh, for only$4 if you use the code Gays reading.'cause I'm partnering with Aardvark Book Club. So if you go to aardvark book club.com, use the code Gays reading at checkout. If you are a new member, then you will get the book for$4 and free shipping. It's such a good deal. and all of that said, I am so happy that you're here. Thank you for being here. And without further ado, please welcome Irene Madison III and Todd Almond.

Jason Blitman: 3:50

Ira Madison III, which I can't wait for people to read about where that name comes from in your book. Pure Innocent Fun. Thank you for being here. Welcome to Gay's Reading.

Ira Madison III: 4:03

Thank you for having me. I can't believe I put that in there too, because I'm just like, I was like, I should have maintained the mystery, but whatever.

Jason Blitman: 4:10

No, it is too good of a story. Thank you for putting it in there. And I suddenly was like, I should see how many Jason Blitmans are in the world and then see where I come in that order and then call myself Jason Blitman the seventh.

Ira Madison III: 4:25

I also feel like there is some other I wrote that, so I found an old photo in my grandparents house once, and it's definitely giving 1800s, it's giving it's definitely giving post emancipation pre gym, and it's it says Ira on it. And so I'm like, how many Iris have there been? Or maybe the name Ira was gotten from him. I don't know.

Jason Blitman: 4:52

huh.

Ira Madison III: 4:53

They're dead. So can't ask.

Jason Blitman: 4:55

So we've lost count, really, is what you're saying. Eh, three! Three. Ha!

Ira Madison III: 5:00

are dead, so One's enough

Jason Blitman: 5:03

you are the for, so stupid for the listeners.

Ira Madison III: 5:09

Listen,

Jason Blitman: 5:09

hard to do an elevator pitch for personal essays, but,

Ira Madison III: 5:16

I'm enjoying this early cycle of interviews, actually. I think I had my first interview a few days ago, and I've been doing a couple now, and just hearing people who I haven't met talk about it, hearing friends who I do know on their podcast talking about it, I'm in my head formulating just what to tell people now, and I feel like that is a beautiful trick to learn. Bye!

Jason Blitman: 5:41

Have you come up with anything so far? This is a safe space.

Ira Madison III: 5:47

Yeah,

Jason Blitman: 5:48

I'm very gentle.

Ira Madison III: 5:49

yeah, no, I feel like it's a conversation with a friend, it is a pop culture conversation with a rigorous pop culture conversation with a friend at a party.

Jason Blitman: 6:00

Yes.

Ira Madison III: 6:01

And you're learning about their life. And you're also talking about a topic and you have to say party because it's like, That gives you the energy of topics will be here and then you'll jump back to this and someone else might join in with something else, you're getting to the end point of what the story was at some point. but, it's it's the journey. It's Homeward Bound.

Jason Blitman: 6:23

Homeward Bound. Talk about nostalgia.

Ira Madison III: 6:26

Yeah. I could have come up with a literature reference for something. It's the Odyssey.

Jason Blitman: 6:31

Bound was a book first.

Ira Madison III: 6:32

Yeah. Oh, it was. Okay. Great. I should read that,

Jason Blitman: 6:36

can use it forever.

Ira Madison III: 6:37

Okay, great. Homeward Bound.

Jason Blitman: 6:39

it's called like The Incredible Journey or something. But

Ira Madison III: 6:41

Yes. Oh, that's right. Because I'm so I'm looking it up now. We love research, which is the secret. We sometimes we do research on like the podcast on keep it like sometimes I'm like

Jason Blitman: 6:52

yeah.

Ira Madison III: 6:53

It's not always all up in our brains, but 80 percent of is the incredible journey. I forget was the full title of Homeward Bound.

Jason Blitman: 7:00

Homeward

Ira Madison III: 7:00

Bound. The incredible journey.

Jason Blitman: 7:02

I was just talking about this with my husband and a friend the other day. We were talking about this movie, and I just have this picture of the cat and then one of the dogs like, coming over the mountain. And then, like Five minutes later, Shadow comes hobbling along.

Ira Madison III: 7:17

It's did they die because they left Shadow in the pit?

Jason Blitman: 7:20

I think the book, I think the book ends differently. I would guess that the book ends differently.

Ira Madison III: 7:24

yeah, they killed animals in books, and then do you recall Homeward Bound 2 lost in San Francisco?

Jason Blitman: 7:30

I don't, I do not think I watched that. I do not think I watched that. But Ira, we, you are two years older than me. We both went to school in Chicago. And we both lived in New York for a long time, and we both choose NSYNC. I was like, we're

Ira Madison III: 7:52

Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 7:52

the same. I was like, I felt like I was reading my own book. Not actually, obviously. But you like, sent me down memory lane, and also taught me so many things. I went down so many rabbit holes, which we'll talk about in a bit. Something that you addressed pretty early on is that a formative time for you was sitting in the cafe at Barnes Noble flipping through for the umpteenth time Entertainment Weekly.

Ira Madison III: 8:19

Yeah, the Bible.

Jason Blitman: 8:20

The Bible. I was also a subscriber. What is that for you today? What is your sitting in the Barnes Noble cafe flipping through Entertainment Weekly?

Ira Madison III: 8:29

Wow. Honestly, because I am no longer on Twitter, and I am, I mean, Instagram? I feel like my, I feel like now, Entertainment Weekly, I feel like my bullpen is now group chats. You find like minded people who all grew up being those same people, and now I get my, I feel like we all get our news, you get the breaking news by someone dropping it in the group chat, right?

Jason Blitman: 8:58

That's

Ira Madison III: 8:58

they drop a good article to read. It's like this. It's yeah, that's, it's just what you do all day.

Jason Blitman: 9:03

Yes. Oh, that is so real and so depressing. I was just texting with Eric Williams of That's a Gay Ass Podcast

Ira Madison III: 9:13

had a great time on

Jason Blitman: 9:15

you were also on. He's also been on this show. But I get a lot of my pop culture from him because I'm like not a pop culture girly at all. So I'm very grateful to feel like I'm getting educated.

Ira Madison III: 9:27

Yeah, no, I feel like it just comes to me now. Like I've collected enough people who want to update me on things. And so I just feel like I just, I don't have to, because what do you search it out on anymore? I'm like, what do I read? I read The Cut. I read Vulture. Vendee Fair, but like I read those articles like I don't go to the website every day and look through it You know

Jason Blitman: 9:47

What's the meme version? Right. I just subscribed to New York Magazine. And so I like have the app on my phone. And I was scrolling through reading a couple things the other day and

Ira Madison III: 9:57

They have an app love

Jason Blitman: 9:59

so retro. Yes, they have an app! So this is a book of essays.

Ira Madison III: 10:03

It is.

Jason Blitman: 10:03

Once upon a time, Iron Madison III had a column in the high school paper.

Ira Madison III: 10:10

Yes. I wish I remembered the name of it. And I could not find a single old copy of this paper. I could not, which is crazy. And so I'm annoyed that the title is not in there because I could not find it. And at one point. My grandmother had it like we had an old copy of it and then it was lost I think in a flood in the basement I do not have a copy of

Jason Blitman: 10:32

No. Oh, that's so devastating. So many of that, so many things about that is devastating. I have become a margin writer now

Ira Madison III: 10:42

Mm hmm. I love that.

Jason Blitman: 10:43

these interviews. But I think I was like, I think when this came up in the book, I was like, I need to know more.

Ira Madison III: 10:50

Yeah

Jason Blitman: 10:51

Why were these articles terrible? What were you writing about? Was the school play that bad that you wrote a scathing review? I just need, I was like, I need to read the, not even Blogspot. What did we have back then? Live

Ira Madison III: 11:04

Live journals. Yes. So My column first of all was the creation of it I feel was petty because there was initially someone who had a column at the paper and they called it The Man, at the Flam Bow, the Marquette Flam Bow. And I believe it was called like the Man, the Myth. And we used to make fun of the title all the time.'cause it was,

Jason Blitman: 11:25

It was just called The Man, The Myth.

Ira Madison III: 11:26

it, yeah, because no one was sitting around a campfire telling those stories,

Jason Blitman: 11:30

you came in, yours was The Legend.

Ira Madison III: 11:31

Yeah I had a column, and really it was just me writing about movies, writing about TV, and sometimes writing about the school play, and obviously I do write that, I was maybe a little shady towards the plays because I wasn't in them, my journalistic ethics were out the window in high school, but also, some of them weren't great, and I feel like it formed my initial criticism bone, it it helped me form, my tastes what I know is good and what I know is bad, because I would be watching it, and I'd be like it's not great, the, why is everyone wearing brownface? And West Side Story. Let's say that.

Jason Blitman: 12:09

yeah. Helped you develop your taste, but also and sharing it with an audience. Which I think is,

Ira Madison III: 12:18

That was fun. That was before, before the internet, obviously there was around that time we had our live journals and like friends would follow you or whatever. You had AIM, Away Message, etc. But I feel like the column was the first thing where I remember, when it came out, seeing people reading it, seeing people at school actually reading it and having people respond to you about it and that was fun

Jason Blitman: 12:43

Now it's on a big scale!

Ira Madison III: 12:44

yes yeah so i love that

Jason Blitman: 12:46

And now people are paying for it.

Ira Madison III: 12:48

yes hopefully

Jason Blitman: 12:51

I think so, so much of me reading this book was me asking questions and being so curious about your response. Like, why were all of us gay boys obsessed with the pink Power Ranger?

Ira Madison III: 13:08

yeah

Jason Blitman: 13:09

Do you know what I mean? Like, why? That

Ira Madison III: 13:11

just like pink i mean my cover's pink

Jason Blitman: 13:14

know the car is pink. She was very like, the sort of girl next door,

Ira Madison III: 13:20

she was sassy

Jason Blitman: 13:21

was like an easy crush to have.

Ira Madison III: 13:23

she was sassy i mean i think you were like you remember the movie With Ivan Ooze, she was the funniest, she's fighting the the putties in the beginnings, she's see you next fall have a nice flight she was the funny one, throwing out quips like she was Spider Man or something, and Trini was fun too, but she was more of the older sister vibes, she was serious.

Jason Blitman: 13:44

We weren't here for that.

Ira Madison III: 13:45

Yeah, which was maybe a little racist because she was Asian, it was also like she, I feel like she was always the one like, doing the meditation, like very serious, a Power Ranger. It's I don't have time for the kids on the team.

Jason Blitman: 13:58

Interesting. I wonder what that I'm curious to do a poll.

Ira Madison III: 14:02

Of who's, just who's

Jason Blitman: 14:03

who was your fave? Yeah. All right. We're going to, this is going to be a very professional

Ira Madison III: 14:09

probably like the Red Ranger. And there was that urban legend that he went on to do gay porn, but it was not him. It was like a lookalike. There was a little urban legend like during the 2000s, I remember people would always be like online saying, Oh, he went off to do porn and it's but it wasn't him.

Jason Blitman: 14:24

Yeah. Speaking of urgent urban legends and searching things, the amount of people from your past that I would, I want to be Googling.

Ira Madison III: 14:33

Ha!

Jason Blitman: 14:34

I'm, like, devastated that there's that one person in particular that you could not find online. Is that still true? Do we still not know where he is?

Ira Madison III: 14:45

I still do not know where Stephen is. And also!

Jason Blitman: 14:48

my god. I

Ira Madison III: 14:50

yeah, I used his real name, actually, because I want to find him, but a lot of the people's names aren't real,

Jason Blitman: 14:56

figured that was true. Which, that's why I didn't say the name, because I, but, I know, I was, like, devastated that you couldn't find Steven on social media.

Ira Madison III: 15:04

yeah, I know, and when I tell you, I've tried to find Steven since high school, it's it has not been possible since post high school, so I've never found him, even in the early days of all of us joining Facebook,

Jason Blitman: 15:19

like we were all

Ira Madison III: 15:19

Never found him. I hope he's not dead. That'd be devastating.

Jason Blitman: 15:24

wonder if there's like a way to get to him. One of my favorite things to do is have a glass of wine and open up my high school yearbook and just start searching. Just who's gay? Who's got, who got ugly? Who got hot? Tell me more. I'm curious. Who's married? Who has all the children? I probably could guess. But it's one of my favorite things to do. I did go to your Instagram and I was like, Is he following a Steven? Is that?

Ira Madison III: 15:53

I will say the nemesis that I mentioned in bring it The essay bring it he I changed his name, but he is a friend In real life. I did give him a copy of the book for Christmas. He does, he is a gay that lives in New York.

Jason Blitman: 16:10

So funny. You did say in the book that you have since become friends. So I'm glad to hear that is true. That there's no water under the bridge, or that it is all water under the bridge. If he was your nemesis, then do you have a nemesis now as someone who's notorious with, for nemeses?

Ira Madison III: 16:29

No,

Jason Blitman: 16:30

You're nemesis less?

Ira Madison III: 16:31

I feel like I'm nemesis less. At least, because I feel like it has to be two ways, I feel like, I don't know, I've Not to be all namaste, but I've been on like Prozac for months, and

Jason Blitman: 16:41

I know, bless.

Ira Madison III: 16:43

I've been on Prozac for months and, I like everything with the book. I'm just like, it's, it is been very peaceful in my life. For once Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 16:51

Yes. Also a rivalry or a nemesis doesn't have to be, like, life

Ira Madison III: 16:56

To the death, like kill bill.

Jason Blitman: 16:59

if there was like a playful rivalry something going on.

Ira Madison III: 17:04

I'm I'm sure something I would love for something to be born out of the book, like a creative rivalry. That'd be fun.

Jason Blitman: 17:09

Interesting. Oh, someone will write like a response book. I

Ira Madison III: 17:18

this shit,

Jason Blitman: 17:18

chuck!

Ira Madison III: 17:19

He'll be like,

Jason Blitman: 17:19

Coldplay!

Ira Madison III: 17:20

a essay about me? Yeah,

Jason Blitman: 17:24

Eek! I know, I was just talking to my therapist this morning, because I've been on my SSRI for a while now, and I was like, things just don't bother me like they used to. SSRIRA!

Ira Madison III: 17:39

who I am now,

Jason Blitman: 17:41

yes, oh my god. Okay, but you did have me google the David Silvera pic.

Ira Madison III: 17:46

Oh. And, come on,

Jason Blitman: 17:50

Come on.

Ira Madison III: 17:52

the man was hot!

Jason Blitman: 17:54

That was very hot and the way you describe it as like a paint me like one of your French girls moments, that's exactly what it looks

Ira Madison III: 18:02

He is like, laying. Um. But on top of that car, it's a he's laying in the dirt and then he's like in, and then there's one where he's like in the hood of a car I'm like doodling it now, I'm looking at it, I kid you not, I like, I used to look at that every day,

Jason Blitman: 18:19

good for you.

Ira Madison III: 18:20

Yeah, and also, can I say,

Jason Blitman: 18:22

say whatever you

Ira Madison III: 18:23

I had written I had written a form of an essay about that once that I wanted to publish when I was at like, BuzzFeed back in the day. And a version of the Fresh Prince one, too, and the editor at the time did not like them and did not respond to my emails. But now they're in my book, I'm glad they weren't at BuzzFeed because BuzzFeed would own them, probably. But,

Jason Blitman: 18:44

that's what I was gonna say.

Ira Madison III: 18:46

or actually, I don't know, I feel like they deleted half the shit on their website anyway, so I probably own it at this point.

Jason Blitman: 18:52

Yeah, I feel like I haven't seen a quiz in a while. A

Ira Madison III: 18:56

You missed us!

Jason Blitman: 18:58

little bit. Huh.

Ira Madison III: 19:01

making the quizzes at BuzzFeed, okay, because That was top tier quizzery. Okay like we were that was quiz nation at the time and you remember what BuzzFeed had the quizzes and then every other sort of low vibrational, like D list website had quizzes that all the time. And then you're just like, and then quizzes just pop up everywhere online, but none of them were ever as. fun as BuzzFeed and also each, I feel like other websites was always like, here's an ad between each quiz question.

Jason Blitman: 19:31

No, then you were done. But I think those quizzes taught me so much about myself and the listicles taught me so much about the world.

Ira Madison III: 19:42

yeah. And honestly,

Jason Blitman: 19:43

Those are gone

Ira Madison III: 19:44

cyclical. It's cyclical though, because if you recall, when we were kids, when we were younger People who would have been our age when we were kids were, devouring like the Cosmo sex quiz and and all magazines, like the listicle thing, like all magazines used to have those. It was always like the, yeah, five sexy things you need to be doing to your man or, like things like that. And so it's cyclical. Like it comes around all the time.

Jason Blitman: 20:11

You should create a quiz to go with your book. Write that down. You're welcome. No! Let's get someone else to write a quiz

Ira Madison III: 20:22

Yeah, someone else might pick the quiz. Yeah

Jason Blitman: 20:24

okay, talking about that photo, that sexy photo. Also, again, me and my rabbit holes of thinking and like these questions. Why was it so easy for us to find the Playboys?

Ira Madison III: 20:36

I know, funny. Obviously I found the essay about how easy it was for my grandmother to find the gay porn DVD. So maybe I'm like, maybe I have no leg to stand on, but Yeah, the Playboys, like the dads of someone would have, it's, they were always in a very easy spot, and it's is this just where instinctively men would put their things? Like the Playboys in the recliner. And I wasn't thinking about it now, but I am thinking about it then, and I'm just, and it's just Does that mean your dads were just like masturbating in the leather and the in the reclining chair when no one's home? That is Horrifying to think

Jason Blitman: 21:15

literally what it is. Hundred percent. Call your publisher, you're putting it gotta put a, an insert in.

Ira Madison III: 21:28

Ah.

Jason Blitman: 21:29

first, everyone, this is the revelation. But seriously, I read that in the book about how easy it was for you to find, and I was like, I literally pulled my dad's shirts in his closet over and it was just like a stack of them

Ira Madison III: 21:40

Mhmm.

Jason Blitman: 21:41

I was like, why? Why?

Ira Madison III: 21:42

They were not hiding things from us at all. Very well.

Jason Blitman: 21:45

no. And yet there were, there was this weird like gatekeeping for me. We couldn't watch the Simpsons. We couldn't watch South Park, we couldn't watch Ren and Stimpy, and I was just like,

Ira Madison III: 21:56

I was allowed to watch Ren and Stimpy. I don't think, I don't think anyone, I don't think, I don't think anyone knew what Ren and Stimpy was.

Jason Blitman: 22:02

Sure. But

Ira Madison III: 22:03

Because it was on Nickelodeon, so they were like, sure, that's fine.

Jason Blitman: 22:08

But I was like, what are you policing?

Ira Madison III: 22:10

Yeah,

Jason Blitman: 22:11

So weird. I was like, meanwhile, you won't let me watch South Park, but I'm like downloading the most random shit on LimeWire, like who knows what viruses I'm giving the computer.

Ira Madison III: 22:24

Also, what is being talked about at school? Among teenage boys.

Jason Blitman: 22:29

God bless LimeWire though, seriously.

Ira Madison III: 22:33

LineWire is, LineWire was great.

Jason Blitman: 22:36

I I was saying a friend of mine who you're connected with on Instagram was dear friends with them in high school and in middle school and I had LimeWire and they weren't allowed to have it on their computer. I don't think my parents knew what it was.

Ira Madison III: 22:51

I'm pretty sure my parents never had any idea that that LineWire was on the computer. It's what is that?

Jason Blitman: 22:57

If I said LimeWire to my parents right now, they'd be like, I don't know what you're talking about. But because I was quote unquote allowed to have it, they gave me a list of songs to make them like a mixtape

Ira Madison III: 23:08

I love that. What was on it? Do you remember anything?

Jason Blitman: 23:14

one of the things I remember is Jennifer Hudson's big song, Post American Idol.

Ira Madison III: 23:22

Oh Spotlight.

Jason Blitman: 23:23

Was

Ira Madison III: 23:23

I don't like living under your spotlight.

Jason Blitman: 23:26

Maybe. What was the one she sang at the end of American Idol?

Ira Madison III: 23:30

Oh, that was hold on, that, probably a horrible song,

Jason Blitman: 23:34

I probably know.

Ira Madison III: 23:34

Were any of those ever good?

Jason Blitman: 23:40

Some people wait a lifetime for a moment like this.

Ira Madison III: 23:43

That's the only good one. Wow, I'm trying to remember Jennifer Hudson's, okay, I gotta look this

Jason Blitman: 23:48

For some reason that doesn't sound familiar to me.

Ira Madison III: 23:51

wait, she didn't win.

Jason Blitman: 23:53

No, but what did she come out with right after or it was like the song that she sang as her exit or something like that. It was, I think it was that.

Ira Madison III: 24:01

Okay.

Jason Blitman: 24:01

wrong. It doesn't matter. But I remember that was like one of the first times I'd heard of Jennifer Hudson because I stopped watching American Idol after Clay Aiken lost.

Ira Madison III: 24:10

Oh,

Jason Blitman: 24:12

So

Ira Madison III: 24:13

anti, you're an anti Rubin

Jason Blitman: 24:15

I wasn't anti Rubin. I was just very gay.

Ira Madison III: 24:19

He was sorry for that. And all of 2004, actually. So

Jason Blitman: 24:23

I

Ira Madison III: 24:24

you remember that song of his. Oh,

Jason Blitman: 24:30

But yeah, what else was on the mixtape? All this random stuff. And weirdly enough, I found my copy. I'm moving, and so I'm doing a lot of packing and going through a lot of stuff. And I found my copy of the mix CD, because I kept it. So I need to find some, I have nothing to play it on.

Ira Madison III: 24:49

does it play in your car? Does it cost to have a CD player?

Jason Blitman: 24:51

My car is like a 2021 or whatever! So I need to find a CD player, and

Ira Madison III: 24:57

People still have them in movies, by the way. So like every time there's a character in a movie they're still, they have a CD player car.

Jason Blitman: 25:05

Who makes them?

Ira Madison III: 25:07

I don't know. Mavis had it in young adult.

Jason Blitman: 25:10

Oh, interesting.

Ira Madison III: 25:12

Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 25:13

Some there has to be I'm sure Oh, you know what? My husband has a Playstation, which plays DVDs, and

Ira Madison III: 25:19

yes, it does. It does play CDs. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 25:23

Every once in a while, he says, Can we please get rid of these DVDs? Cause I have

Ira Madison III: 25:27

No, you can't. I have DVDs because I'm like, first of all, physical media. You have to save it. There's truly movies that you can't even find.

Jason Blitman: 25:37

So

Ira Madison III: 25:37

you have the DVD.

Jason Blitman: 25:39

So literally, a friend was over a couple weeks ago. He had never seen First Wives Club. We couldn't find it anywhere streaming. And I was like, we have the DVD. We didn't want to pay 4 for it. But I was like, we have the DVD! So we put it on.

Ira Madison III: 25:54

I love that.

Jason Blitman: 25:55

amazing. You also go on a bit of a tangent? No, let's call it a love letter Disney VHS tapes.

Ira Madison III: 26:04

I do. I do. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 26:07

I am obsessed. I love to VHS. Again, you were saying, this is, I feel like this whole conversation is really just me understanding my childhood more, and appreciating that I wasn't alone. Because you say that we played with the boxes as much as we watched the VHSs.

Ira Madison III: 26:27

Mm hmm.

Jason Blitman: 26:27

I used to

Ira Madison III: 26:30

They were fun! They were squishy!

Jason Blitman: 26:31

Yes, but I would go as far as take out the images, cut out the characters, and use them as puppets.

Ira Madison III: 26:41

Okay. You beat me.

Jason Blitman: 26:43

Because I was a baby homosexual.

Ira Madison III: 26:48

You were building Eureka's castle over there.

Jason Blitman: 26:51

Eureka's Castle!

Ira Madison III: 26:52

Yeah, no, I love those things. And honestly, you saying, too the finding that you weren't alone, I feel like that's also one of the aims of the book. I feel like

Jason Blitman: 27:01

Not to be confused with AOL Instant Messenger.

Ira Madison III: 27:05

All the time online, there are conversations where, or like viral threads, right? Where someone says, What's a show that you remember that, no one else has ever seen? When people are always retweeting that, etc., and listing a show, and it's, it might seem like you were the only person who like watched something, right? But you also have to remember that In monoculture, niche things in the era of monoculture are technically monoculture now, cause like niche things now it's maybe 10, 000 people watch it or listen to it, but a small TV show that you're sure no one else watched in the 90s, 12 million people probably watched it every week.

Jason Blitman: 27:48

You literally just said Eureka's Castle. When's the last time I've ever talked about Eureka's Castle, but I also just sang the words in my head,

Ira Madison III: 27:56

it

Jason Blitman: 27:56

right?

Ira Madison III: 27:57

week,

Jason Blitman: 27:57

Yeah, absolutely. There was also Dumbo's Circus was something I loved as a kid. That whole big head, not puppets, but creature y sort of TV shows. That was a very late 80s, early 90s situation and it's to say things like kids these days don't understand how easy they have it, but there is something very interesting about how sort of inaccessible things were for us, and how we like needed to create these worlds for ourselves.

Ira Madison III: 28:27

yeah, things were inextricable, we created them for ourselves, but also we were exposed to a lot more, I honestly feel like there's more, not gatekeeping now, but there's more with streaming, for instance, it is, you pick what you want to watch, you pick what you want to listen to, the thing about MTV or VH1 was, or even the radio it's, you want to hear your favorite song, you want to see your favorite video, you have to sit through a bunch of other videos Or listen to a bunch of other songs to get to it. And so we consumed a lot of music that we didn't necessarily like or older songs that we didn't know. And I feel like for TV, you would watch

Jason Blitman: 29:07

The

Ira Madison III: 29:07

Eureka's Castle. You watch,

Jason Blitman: 29:09

thing you wanted to watch.

Ira Madison III: 29:10

Yeah, you watch the last 20 minutes of something or you leave the, or I think I mentioned it in the book even, that's how TV shows used to create hits, you would air a show after the biggest show on TV, which is just hoping that people didn't turn, change the channel. After friends,

Jason Blitman: 29:29

Oh my god, that's so funny. I

Ira Madison III: 29:31

but now you just, now you just pull up friends on Hulu, so you're never going to see like the thing after it.

Jason Blitman: 29:36

Yeah. And it's a bummer because, my husband will complain all the time that like, He'll listen to something on Spotify, and then the algorithm that it chooses to keep going with is either always the same or so similar and doesn't actually share new things and Yeah, you're right, because it's like we weren't, you bring up Freak on the Leash in the book, and I'm like, I don't know a single Korn song except that

Ira Madison III: 30:02

Because it was on TRL

Jason Blitman: 30:03

was on TRL, the music video is incredible And it was like, okay,

Ira Madison III: 30:09

bullet.

Jason Blitman: 30:10

The Flying Bullet, yes, the animation is actually really stunning, but then you have, but because we are sitting there saying, who's going to win this week. Is it going to be Britney Spears? Is it going to be NSYNC? Is it going to be Korn? And so we're sitting there watching through all of these things and exposing ourselves to that. Which is

Ira Madison III: 30:31

And there's just no exposure to the unfamiliar these days, to new things that people might be interested in, and I think that, I feel like, um, there's just no way to get someone into something without. Them, like putting it in front of their face, I think for instance even advertisements, I was saying this with a friend this week. I love the movie. One of them days with Kiki Palmer and SZA. Yes, I was clocking with a friend. They had not heard of the movie, but they had seen it. Kiki Palmer interview where she called Cynthia Erivo's Defying Gravity performance a slave hand, right? They were like, oh my God, that was so funny, and Issa Rae was laughing with her, but then it, there wasn't the extra step of why are these two in an interview together? And it's, you see the clip online, and, that was from working in media, was the figure I was thinking about, right? The clip's out online somewhere, and everyone's laughing at it. But that doesn't translate to people knowing that she's in a movie that Issa Rae produced that is currently in theaters and you can go see it.

Jason Blitman: 31:41

Yeah. Yeah, I mean it makes me think about, you talk about Tom Cruise in the book, and getting You, you feel like you're allowed to love him because of the co sign from Oprah. And I felt like I was allowed to love him because of the co sign from Rosie O'Donnell. But it made, cause I was a Rosie kid, and I would

Ira Madison III: 31:57

Yes.

Jason Blitman: 31:58

every single day. But what you're describing, at the end of every conversation she had, she would go, Alright everyone, catch Iron Madison III in his book! She'd hold the thing at the edge of her desk.

Ira Madison III: 32:12

on TV shows where like when someone comes on TRL, it is to promote their new video or debut it. And all these conversations, interviews that we used to see with people were. It would, it was for a purpose. It was promotion. People weren't just hanging out at TRL on sets for no reason. But now, we do just see interviews with people. And you don't know what they're promoting. And then also, we're also just at an age where sometimes people are just doing interviews for no reason. Because they just want people to know who they are

Jason Blitman: 32:45

Have them in the zeitgeist or whatever. And also I think we are so over consumed that even if there is A ticker or a tag at the bottom of the screen that says what they're talking about or says, buy the book or whatever. We're not even seeing that. We're so desensitized to the other information because our brain is doing a hundred things at one time.

Ira Madison III: 33:11

and yet do you remember in the, I think it's specifically Fox used to do this shit when you'd watch a show and especially when you watch old clips of something online or you watch old VHS tapes, like Fox used to have the the chyron on the bottom that would tell you about a new show that was airing soon or something, but they'd be like animated graphics. Like you'd be watching another show and the dancing baby from Ally McBeal in the corner. Yeah. Yeah,

Jason Blitman: 33:38

So it's okay, you're half paying attention but also look at this.

Ira Madison III: 33:41

yeah. I don't know, this is just me begging people to find some way to come back to, random content, random content, so that, your generations learn new things,

Jason Blitman: 33:52

and there's also, I think one would hope, and frankly this is some of what I love so much about this podcast is, whether they're a fan of yours or a fan of random author number 12, that they'll listen and be excited about the person and be intrigued by the person and then want to consume more content of theirs. So it's a bit disappointing for me to hear that. There wasn't the Google of Kiki Palmer's name to be like, What's she up to now?

Ira Madison III: 34:21

Yeah. Well, That friend's an idiot. So

Jason Blitman: 34:27

Okay, fair. Fair. Let's call her

Ira Madison III: 34:29

because, Because honestly, that is honestly, that is me. I feel like maybe it's for people who are obsessed with pop culture, but I feel like your thing is you have a conversation with a friend and you bring up, bring up Keanu Reeves. And I will be like, maybe it's my AD, but I would be like on my phone, like looking up Keanu Reeves and be like, what's he up

Jason Blitman: 34:51

What's he up to? How tall is he?

Ira Madison III: 34:54

Especially when someone brings up a celebrity like you haven't thought of in forever. It's sort of like, wow where is she?

Jason Blitman: 34:59

Has Keanu finally aged a little bit? What's going on here? Yeah, no, that's true. Alright, so maybe it's touch and go. Depends on who you are. I have two important musical theater questions to ask you. Thing

Ira Madison III: 35:10

Go ahead.

Jason Blitman: 35:11

on That's a Gay Ass Podcast, you say your jam is a sad musical theater song. What is your go to?

Ira Madison III: 35:19

Okay. So my favorite musical is Thoroughly Modern Millie.

Jason Blitman: 35:27

Was not expecting that.

Ira Madison III: 35:29

Really?

Jason Blitman: 35:30

No.

Ira Madison III: 35:31

is, it's really every other day I'm listening to Thoroughly Modern Millie. And I love I love Jimmy. I love Jimmy. I love Yeah, that's just let me see what else is like my sad musical theater

Jason Blitman: 35:46

When I think sad musical theater song, I immediately think I'm Here from the Color Purple. That's my sad, inspire, uplift that's my go to when I

Ira Madison III: 35:57

Who?

Jason Blitman: 35:57

an emotional moment.

Ira Madison III: 35:58

Who did you see in Color Purple? Have you seen Color Purple live?

Jason Blitman: 36:01

Have I seen, who have I seen? I've seen all of them.

Ira Madison III: 36:04

Okay, I saw it with Fantasia.

Jason Blitman: 36:06

Okay, I didn't see Fantasia. But I will say, my favorite was Jeanette Bayardelle, who opened the tour in Chicago. And if you have not seen her perform, I'm here. She's, you have to see her do it. Anyway. LaFantasia, she's so good too.

Ira Madison III: 36:23

yes. I'm like, what else? I like I Still Believe from Miss Saigon.

Jason Blitman: 36:30

oh, huh.

Ira Madison III: 36:31

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, and I'm like sad musical theater songs. My favorite, one of my other favorites is Phantom of the Opera. So I'm just like constantly listening to that. And wishing you were somehow here again. The amount of times, the amount of times that I'm like You know that meme of like, what's someone listening to in their headphones? The amount of times I'm like, just walking around New York City, blaring, wishing you were somehow here again. That is a perfect walking through New York cast recording, by the way.

Jason Blitman: 37:00

Interesting. It's like a, it's like a soundtrack for your life.

Ira Madison III: 37:03

cold, it's it's wintry, it's, yeah, you feel cloaked, like you're running through a cemetery.

Jason Blitman: 37:09

I was just gonna say you're in a graveyard. You're going to the cloisters. You're, in an abandoned building.

Ira Madison III: 37:15

yeah. Also, theater lore for me one of my first jobs when I first moved to New York was I worked concessions at I was a bartender at the Phantom of the Opera. I was at the Majestic

Jason Blitman: 37:28

Oh, how funny. I sold merchandise at the Lion King.

Ira Madison III: 37:31

Okay. Yeah. I did the Majestic and then I did a couple fill ins at Chicago and a chorus line once, and then after Phantom of the Opera, I moved for previews before I quit, I was there for all the previews through opening of August Osage County.

Jason Blitman: 37:48

Oh! Saw

Ira Madison III: 37:52

of times.

Jason Blitman: 37:54

that play Steppenwolf when it first premiered, and then saw Felicia Rashad do it on Broadway and was incredible.

Ira Madison III: 38:01

Yeah. I've had.

Jason Blitman: 38:03

look at you, bopping around all over the place.

Ira Madison III: 38:05

of course, like sometimes I'll just wake up in the middle of the night and I'll hear, Hill Raid! Hahahaha!

Jason Blitman: 38:14

Oh my god, wait, what's the big thing? Wait. So Amy Morton

Ira Madison III: 38:19

Yes. Also that set was gorgeous.

Jason Blitman: 38:22

Set was gorgeous. Wait, but this is so

Ira Madison III: 38:24

of California, but I feel like I everyone describes that as a huge set that's almost similar to

Jason Blitman: 38:29

yes. Hills of California just

Ira Madison III: 38:31

set. It

Jason Blitman: 38:32

it, you're, yeah, but

Ira Madison III: 38:34

I missed it.

Jason Blitman: 38:35

I know it was good. But it was it could have been an August S. H. County set. But they just announced today that Amy Morton is going to do some new play in Chicago.

Ira Madison III: 38:45

okay.

Jason Blitman: 38:47

And, I read the headline and it said, Amy Morton stars in Chicago production of such and such. And I was like, Amy Morton is going into Chicago. The musical. How

Ira Madison III: 38:59

Matron mama is like the only thing she can play, I feel

Jason Blitman: 39:04

weird. I know. Okay. The other musical theater thing. That's a hot take that you

Ira Madison III: 39:08

I'm sorry. I'm also still depressed that I've missed Hills of California. That's a, no, it's okay. That was, you know how it is when you're here too. It's it's one of those things where you're always like, that's on my list. I got to go see it. Got to make sure I see it. And then. It closes and then you

Jason Blitman: 39:21

My husband is a born and raised New Yorker and never saw Phantom of the Opera.

Ira Madison III: 39:27

That was running forever.

Jason Blitman: 39:29

Literally his entire life.

Ira Madison III: 39:31

But I also feel like if you're born and raised, you're like Phantom of the Opera and Cats are like Statue of Liberty. It's are we really going?

Jason Blitman: 39:37

Yeah, that's exactly, I think, how he felt and why he never saw it. And he was a, he is a big theater person,

Ira Madison III: 39:42

Yeah, but you see those commercials on, I've seen the commercials on YouTube, like you'd see them on TV, you're probably just I'm not seeing that shit. But,

Jason Blitman: 39:48

Yeah, it's like Chicago now. Who's going to see it, really? Though it depends on who's starring in it. It's

Ira Madison III: 39:53

that's fair. I went to see Jinxed Monster and I saw my friend I'm friends with Ariana Matic, so I went to see her in it. And I was actually like, this show was fun and lively. I prefer the movie, obviously. But, yeah.

Jason Blitman: 40:06

my friend Natasha goes in a lot to play Mama Morton, and she's, I've gone to see her, and that's, it's always really fun when you like see it, cause you know someone but she's about to go into Wicked as Madame Morrible, and that is what's gonna get me back to Wicked on Broadway. Okay, the other hot take, and again, I'm sorry about Hills of California, that was, I didn't mean to be the bearer of bad news,

Ira Madison III: 40:26

it's fun, you know what? It's

Jason Blitman: 40:28

You say in the book, Little Shop of Horrors is the best musical in existence, not written by Stephen Sondheim.

Ira Madison III: 40:36

That also, I feel like I've gone back and forth on if Little Shop or Thoroughly Modern Billy is my favorite musical. Currently, post writing the book, it has bested Little Shop, but I have seen damn near Every per every person who's come in to play Seymour for current Little Shoppe.

Jason Blitman: 40:56

Oh. The fabulous Cherie Renee Scott is in it right now. Did you see her do it?

Ira Madison III: 41:02

I have seen her do it. She's fantastic. I saw her back in in um, Watch that man right out of my hair. What is the show?

Jason Blitman: 41:09

South Pacific?

Ira Madison III: 41:09

South Pacific? Yes, it's on South Pacific.

Jason Blitman: 41:12

What did she do in South Pacific? When did, where did she do South Pacific?

Ira Madison III: 41:15

She did South Pacific at Lincoln Center. I feel like 2008?

Jason Blitman: 41:17

Not Cherie Renee Scott!

Ira Madison III: 41:19

Wait, was that Kelly?

Jason Blitman: 41:20

Yeah.

Ira Madison III: 41:21

Oh, it was Kelly. It was Kelly. When I see Cheryl Rene Scott. Oh, Little Mermaid.

Jason Blitman: 41:26

Yes, oh my god, I saw Sherry Renee Scott's The Little Mermaid too.

Ira Madison III: 41:29

I am embarrassing myself with this, but that yeah, okay. I forgot that I'm not in confusing. Renee Scott.

Jason Blitman: 41:38

What I'm obsessed with is that my brain went to what company in Milwaukee did Sherry Renee Scott do South Pacific. And I was like, gotta go search LimeWire for the Sherri Renee Scott bootleg.

Ira Madison III: 41:55

Yes, but you have thoughts on little shop of horrors.

Jason Blitman: 41:58

No, my question really was a, just like a super bold statement, but also what are, what's your favorite Sondheim musical? If clearly you're saying best musical in existence is written by Stephen Sondheim.

Ira Madison III: 42:10

my favorite song, high musical is into the woods and on Off day, it can be Sweeney Todd, but I just saw a beautiful production of Into the Woods, obviously, the one that was here, and I saw a production of Sweeney Todd.

Jason Blitman: 42:26

I just directed a production of Sweeney Todd

Ira Madison III: 42:28

Did you?

Jason Blitman: 42:29

San Diego and I won't, not to pat myself on the back, but one of the reviews did say that the critics saw it in both New York and San Diego, and this little production was better

Ira Madison III: 42:39

it is hard to do Sweeney. It's hard. I think, Sweeney is usually will end up Into the Woods for me, but it's it's, you have, it's hard to do because it is so easy to do that show bad. We did it at Loyola Chicago when I was there.

Jason Blitman: 42:53

know!

Ira Madison III: 42:53

Yes.

Jason Blitman: 42:54

I I was working at the Public when Into the Woods was in the park. And that was very special. I don't know if you got a chance to see

Ira Madison III: 43:03

I did not.

Jason Blitman: 43:04

Okay, so seeing Into the Woods at the Delacorte Theatre in Central Park was really special. I'm a big fan of both of those musicals. You passed, there wasn't a test to pass, but those are great

Ira Madison III: 43:14

I'm sorry. You know what my favorite public thing my favorite Shakespeare in the park is, I saw Anne Hathaway in Twelfth

Jason Blitman: 43:23

McDonald in Twelfth Night.

Ira Madison III: 43:24

Yeah, I was at the performance where it ranked and they kept going.

Jason Blitman: 43:28

That production. I just got the chills. I bought the CD for that production. It was Gorgeous. Truly one of the best theatrical experiences of my life, and I don't love Shakespeare, and that was really terrific.

Ira Madison III: 43:42

Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 43:43

I know.

Ira Madison III: 43:43

Love to do like some essence of something of like my theater my theater adventures. My, another favorite production I've been at is, I think I mentioned this when we interviewed Patti LuPone on Keep It, but I was at, if you Google Patti LuPone Gypsy, ceiling fall. I was at the production where part of the ceiling fell in the mezzanine and hit a woman. I was not at the turn off your phone incident, but I was at the ceiling falling on a woman.

Jason Blitman: 44:14

my God, how crazy. I saw that show and then the next day her understudy went on. So I like, saw her when she was sick and then had to call out the next day. Oh my God. It is. I it's time to let you go. But Ira, something that we haven't talked about. That I didn't even tell you is that one of the biggest rabbit holes I fell down, I've never seen the OC.

Ira Madison III: 44:38

Oh. Wow.

Jason Blitman: 44:40

and watched the pilot of the OC after reading your book because I had to know more. I was so intrigued. I was like, why are we all in love with a misunderstood bad boy? I was like, this is terrible that this in one of the lines in the pilot is that social security is supposed to run out by 2025. Which. Shocked me. There are so many gay No, shocked me that it was as prophetic as it was. And I was like, the O. C.? Telling us the future like this? And then I told My husband was sitting there, he's seen the whole thing. And he then, he was like, okay, let me tell you what happened so that you can know. And I was like, okay, some of this is giving Season 2 Friday Night Lights. And then, to see the Season 2 Friday Night Lights story mentioned in your book, I was like Anyway, you got me to watch The Pilot of the O. C.

Ira Madison III: 45:32

That's a great pilot.

Jason Blitman: 45:34

It was a good pilot! It like could have been a movie. It was like a movie, it was it's own little thing.

Ira Madison III: 45:39

Yeah. Obviously not mentioned in the book, but it's like that was that felt like the 90210 formula of the pilot, the OC debuted in the summer. And really it was gripping week to week. And you come back to high school and the straight jocks at school are talking about the OC.

Jason Blitman: 45:57

everyone was watching it. Except for me.

Ira Madison III: 46:00

Yeah. So for you,

Jason Blitman: 46:01

I know, so I need to like, get, I need to watch a couple more episodes here and there. Cause I was

Ira Madison III: 46:05

so funny. It's so it's really good. It's really good. The best seasons are season one and season four, the final season.

Jason Blitman: 46:12

Okay, good to

Ira Madison III: 46:14

Yeah. The C the four Cs the four season. It just turns into a straight like farce. So

Jason Blitman: 46:21

Amazing. Pure innocent fun. Congratulations, Ira. Ira Madison III. Find out why he's the third reading the book. I cannot wait to read your essay collection about your theater shenanigans. I cannot wait to see a play that you write one day, because you should. And then

Ira Madison III: 46:37

Thank you. I have, I've written some bad ones, but it's time to write a new one. I have my master's from NYU in playwriting, yeah,

Jason Blitman: 46:46

Cozy soup and burger we didn't talk about. There are too many things, Ira. We're gonna have to have you on again. Congratulations. What?

Ira Madison III: 46:56

Thank you. I'm going to leave you with one thing because I brought up Sherry Renee Scott and the Little Mermaid. Do you remember? I always quote this. Do you remember the opening line from Ben Brantley's review?

Jason Blitman: 47:12

No.

Ira Madison III: 47:13

Loved the shoes, loathed the show, because remember they had the,

Jason Blitman: 47:18

The Heelys.

Ira Madison III: 47:19

shoe, the

Jason Blitman: 47:20

Yes!

Ira Madison III: 47:22

That's how he opened his review of The Little Mermaid on Broadway.

Jason Blitman: 47:26

man. I saw it twice because I had to go back and see Faith Prince play

Ira Madison III: 47:32

Yeah,

Jason Blitman: 47:33

I also saw Tarzan on Broadway twice, because obviously.

Ira Madison III: 47:37

When I come back, I will produce it and show you. It's wild that I'm I'm friends with Gideon Quicknow, and I told him I've seen this because I still have my playbill from seeing Spider Man Turn of the Dark three times.

Jason Blitman: 47:48

Oh, I only saw it twice. I saw version one and version two.

Ira Madison III: 47:51

I saw three different versions of that

Jason Blitman: 47:53

Oh my god, so funny. I know, the lore. There's a

Ira Madison III: 47:58

Yeah, I showed him the paper one said I was, he was like, wow.

Jason Blitman: 48:04

So funny. It's really funny to go back into old Playbills and see who was an understudy or who you saw in a show that is now someone that's important or, important, that has become more famous. So funny. Very happy to have you here. Congratulations on the book. This episode comes out on Pub Day, so everybody go

Ira Madison III: 48:22

love that. I love that.

Jason Blitman: 48:23

My fantastic guest gay reader for the day. You might know him from stumbling upon multiple albums of his on Spotify. You might know him from multiple Public Works original musicals at the Delacorte Theater in Central Park or from his book that just came out. Slow train coming about his experience in the musicale on the Broadway girl from the North country, Todd Almond. Welcome to Gay's Reading!

Todd Almond: 48:53

thank you. Gay's reading my two favorite things in the world.

Jason Blitman: 48:57

So I was saying, I'm, it's funny that we're both quote unquote here right now because I was never really a reader and I'm shocked that now I host a book podcast. My background is very much in theater and you, you know, composer to, to being featured in a Broadway show to now author, right? This has been, what a journey that you've been on.

Todd Almond: 49:21

It's been fascinating so many times in my career Which is a funny thing to talk about career. I put quotes around that word, and when I say it about myself, because of that very fact sometimes I'm a writer, sometimes I'm a singer, sometimes I'm an actor, sometimes I'm a playwright, sometimes I'm a composer, sometimes I'm an orchestrator, or a music director. So the word career has always struck me as not applicable to myself because I'm always doing a hundred things, but people always ask me which one do you like best? And I genuinely Like the one that I'm doing the best and I've never, it was, it's been a problem and I think now I see it as who I am my whole career, even in college, like I got in trouble with certain teachers because they were like, you're not focusing hard enough on this thing. And I was like, I know, because today I'm focusing on that thing. And so it's something I've fought against and I'm learning to embrace. So today. I'm an author of a book.

Jason Blitman: 50:14

which I can't wait to hear about and I want to talk about in a second, but I have to ask because you are today's guest gay reader, Todd Almond, what are you reading?

Todd Almond: 50:21

Okay I read a lot. I have my apartment is wall to wall books. It's been my dream in life and my husband is the same way, so we are, every corner of our apartment is a shelf of books and people think we're crazy and that's all right. But so I'm always reading something new. And then reading something old and rereading something simultaneously. Somebody borrowed something that exactly, I'm always a bride. I'm always So the thing I'm reading that's new is, do you know this Hungarian author? This sounds so like highbrow and it is, but I love this guy. His name is Laszlo Krajnorkai, and forgive me if I'm pronouncing that incorrectly, but he has this book that has a really weird title. It's called Hirscht 07769, but I promise it is so funny and so relevant to the moment. It's like a satire of Neo Nazis in Germany and somehow it's very funny and upsetting and I highly recommend it. It's it's written in that style. I don't know if you've noticed that there have been several novels that are written as one long run on sentence. And so it's, 500 pages of one sentence that just keeps, the person just keeps spilling forward, and then this, and then that person, and that person, and so you get, you feel, every time I open it I feel like I jump into these rushing waters. And that's what I'm reading that's new. The old thing that I'm reading right now is I'm trying to, I'm trying to catch up on my George Eliot because I feel woefully uneducated in George Eliot. So sometimes I'll read in a book or hear someone mention a novel and the novel The Mill on the Floss has come up a couple of times, so I was like, I guess I'm reading The Mill on the Floss. That's how I always find books to read. It's like somebody mentions it in another book or a character talks about it or, anyway, and then I'm rereading. I have three authors that I can read and reread and reread the same books over and over. And and those authors are Joyce Carol Oates, have you read me?

Jason Blitman: 52:26

I have not.

Todd Almond: 52:28

She's the

Jason Blitman: 52:29

I know.

Todd Almond: 52:30

This British author that I love named Scarlett Thomas,

Jason Blitman: 52:34

Oh,

Todd Almond: 52:35

who you must read. And then, did you ever read the Mark Danielewski novel called House of Leaves? It's this book that kind of was really popular in, in circles in 2000 and, like 25 years ago, and it's come back. People are rediscovering it. So I'm, I just reread that and I'm now I'm rereading some Joyce Carol Oates, but there's like a, there's like a Joyce Carol Oates novel called The Mysteries of Winterthern that I will read. Like once a year until I die. I don't know why I don't know why I it's like comforting to me And I learn from it and every time I forget what's going to happen Even though I know if I really think about it what's going to

Jason Blitman: 53:24

Huh.

Todd Almond: 53:24

but I get pulled into it every time So that's what i'm reading. I don't know. I take books so seriously. You have no idea. I take them so seriously

Jason Blitman: 53:33

I love that. And it's so funny because the more when I started reading really back in 2019. And I was talking about it as though I've discovered this new thing called reading. But I would talk to friends about books. And all of a sudden, they started talking about what they're reading and I was like, wait a minute, we're all reading books, but no one is talking about the fact that we're reading books. So it really has become this thing. Yeah.

Todd Almond: 54:00

And then, I feel like that keeps happening as a reader. You keep okay, now I'm reading, and then you'll discover a writer. And that whole, you get that sensation all over again. It's wait, there's this kind of novel? And then you'll discover that person has written many, or there's a school of that kind of writing, and it's exciting all over again. You just Yeah, incredible.

Jason Blitman: 54:20

Texting Mandy this morning she was saying that her daughter is reading Bel Canto right now. And I just interviewed Ann Patchett and then they, she said they all as a family read Tom Lake last summer. And I was like, that's so a very fun, but also like, how come we're not all in a massive book club around the world? You know what

Todd Almond: 54:40

We are! We're here right now. We're

Jason Blitman: 54:42

Yes, exactly. We're here right now. Rereading is not intimidating to me, but I feel like there are so many books on my shelves that I, the idea of rereading, I feel like I'm then neglecting other books. But I would imagine that because you've read it before, you can move through it a little bit more swiftly and you're like picking up things that you certainly didn't your first go around. Really?

Todd Almond: 55:04

I, yes, I definitely pick up things that I miss the first time, but I find the second time through I read slower, because I'm the kind of reader who's like the first time through, I'm like I'm like shoveling it in, like I'm eating my meal too quickly. And then the second time through. Even if it's, 10 years later or whatever, I slow down and I just let the author go at the pace that author wants to go. And sometimes I'll even read it out loud to myself because I find if I'm the second time through, if I'm reading it out loud, I'll slow down or I'll listen to the audible version. And maybe even read along. Because I do feel like great authors bury things in their writing. And I don't notice them the first time. It's why I could never be a book critic. Because I think I could not speak with authority on what an author's intent was if I have read the book one time. I couldn't. I couldn't. I have to read it over and over to really Because great authors, they're, working on so many levels. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 56:11

because now that I'm doing the podcast, I read with a pencil in my hand. And I like, was never really an annotator or anything, but now, not only am I annotating, but I'm like, writing questions in the margins that literally can get asked, right? Or, if a character is asked a question of them, it inspires me to ask that question of the author, right? So it's. You can dig in a little bit, contextually, while you're reading, right? So if I wasn't interviewing an author, I might read differently, but knowing that I am.

Todd Almond: 56:49

interesting. I have a version

Jason Blitman: 56:51

I try to go into every book as though I'm going to interview the author, because I feel like I'm a better reader that way.

Todd Almond: 56:58

I have a version of that, which is, I do, I write in books too. I underline and I read, and, but lately, maybe for the last five years or something, I just earmark certain pages. And one day I asked myself what am I doing? It's not a placeholder. And I realized, oh, I find myself earmarking pages that feel like they're the, somehow connected to what the book is trying to tell me. Or that's like what this book is about. And. And so it'll be, like nothing even interesting could happen on that page, but somehow, like what you're saying, I feel like, oh, the author I'm like in direct communication with the author right here for some reason. And I've never actually ever gone back to any of those books and looked at the pages that I've earmarked, but maybe someday that'll be a project.

Jason Blitman: 57:43

Those could be fun books to re read.

Todd Almond: 57:45

Yeah. On my list. It's

Jason Blitman: 57:48

Do you have a genre of choice? Everything you

Todd Almond: 57:52

I feel like, have you ever seen, you've seen Passion, of course, the music, the Stephen Sondheim music,

Jason Blitman: 57:58

Oh yeah.

Todd Almond: 57:58

You remember when the the captain is talking about Fosca, his sister, and he's oh, she'll read anything. She'll read military manuals, and I'm like, I feel you, Fosca, I feel you.

Jason Blitman: 58:11

Have you ever read a military manual?

Todd Almond: 58:13

There's this amazing book called Le It's

Jason Blitman: 58:17

The way your eyes lit up?

Todd Almond: 58:21

It's called Letters from a Portuguese Nun. And it's all these letters that a nun is writing with a soldier, and it's incredible

Jason Blitman: 58:30

Speaking

Todd Almond: 58:31

And it reads like a military manual because it's all like super military talk. I dunno.

Jason Blitman: 58:35

that's so funny. Oh, I'll have to look into that. There's a book called 84 Charring Cross Road. Are you familiar?

Todd Almond: 58:41

No.

Jason Blitman: 58:42

Okay. It is like a slip of a book. And it is these letters back and forth between a woman and a bookseller in London. And that's the whole book. And it's, they're real letters. And it's beautiful. I'll send you, I'll send it to you.

Todd Almond: 58:59

Books of letters are so great. There's an incredible book of letters between Thornton Wilder and Gertrude Stein because they were friends. I don't know. I'm into that stuff. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 59:09

Interesting, I know, yeah, me

Todd Almond: 59:10

Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 59:10

Okay you'll read anything,

Todd Almond: 59:13

As long as it's good. I don't care what the plot or the genre is. I read, I just read the Thorn Birds. Have you ever heard of the Thorn Birds? It's this 1970s Australian. It was like in every grocery store. If you were grocery shopping in the 70s and they sold books, you could buy the Thorn Birds. I was like, I've never read the Thorn Birds. I'm curious. And so I read that. you don't have to read it. It was okay. But

Jason Blitman: 59:33

I literally just wrote it down and I'm I just crossed it off.

Todd Almond: 59:37

watch the, there's a mini series of Barbara Stanwyck, watch that. But

Jason Blitman: 59:41

So you'll read anything but you, you wrote nonfiction. How did, tell us how this book came to be.

Todd Almond: 59:47

So every year. I was in the musical Girl from the North Country, as you said, and we opened just days before the pandemic. And so our show just had a very strange trajectory. We had run at the public, then an entire year passed before we opened on Broadway, and then right after we opened, the world shut down, then we came back, and we opened and closed and opened and closed and opened and closed. And It was a very emotional and like life changing experience for me and at the very, near the very end of it, in June of 2022, we were participating in this there's this big breakfast event that happens before the Tonys every year. It's like all of the producers from around the country who aren't New York City producers. They come to New York for the Tonys and there's like a big breakfast. And one show, one Broadway show performs for them. And we were the show that year. So it's an early morning breakfast and, on a Tuesday or something. And we performed and as we were walking out into the day. I was with my castmate, Kimber Sprawl, and I was like, Oh my God, can you even believe everything we've been through in the last four years? And I said, somebody has, somebody should write a book about this, because it, we're all going to forget. And then I thought, wait, we should all write a book about this. We should write a collection of essays and I'll edit it. But then Kimber and I talked and I was like, no, maybe I'll just write a book and I'll interview everybody. So I immediately called the book agent that I knew and I said, Hey, I have this idea. And he was very excited about it. And then, it took us a while to figure out, to find the publisher, but I knew exactly what I wanted to be. And so I interviewed, everybody involved with the production because I think it's a fascinating piece of writing. But then I also had an intensely personal experience that I won't spoil for the listeners. Hopefully you'll read the book. But I tie those two things together and then the third thing being the what happened to the world and to our community which started to feel like what was happening in the play because the play is set during the Great Depression. The daily struggle of these characters suddenly felt eerily similar to the daily struggles of the cast. Yeah, all those things tie together.

Jason Blitman: 1:01:51

So it's a chronicling of the musical and a little bit of memoir.

Todd Almond: 1:01:56

Yeah, exactly. It's kind of memoir and oral history. And then, it's so subjective. I'm not a reporter. But I do try my hardest to figure out what happened to the community, the entire Broadway community, during COVID and how we came out of it. So I interview people like Tom Schumacher from Disney and, get His take, because he was right at the center of all that decision making. So there's also, for the curious reader, like that information is in the book. Again, I'm not a journalist, so it's all from my very subjective point of view, but in the words of the people who were making it all happen.

Jason Blitman: 1:02:29

Yeah. Listen, I find that to be super interesting too, as again, a person who's not a journalist and doing this journalistic sort of medium, I totally get it.

Todd Almond: 1:02:39

Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 1:02:40

Okay, before I let you go, because this is Gay's Reading,

Todd Almond: 1:02:44

We can't be done.

Jason Blitman: 1:02:45

I have to know, do you have any grievances? Are you reading anything? This is your time to let anything off of your chest if you need to.

Todd Almond: 1:02:52

Okay. I do have something. Do you know what needs to be done? You know what I have a problem with? I realize so much art and so many books and so many stories are about like a straight couple where one is cheating on the other one. And I'm like, can we have a different story? Can we have a story that is not about the anxiety of controlling another person? I'm so much more interested. Have you read the Our Share of Night? That's an amazing book because I feel like it's super queer and super it's a horror genre but it's got this

Jason Blitman: 1:03:30

It's also this big.

Todd Almond: 1:03:32

also that big, you'll tear through it, it's so entertaining, but also what I like about it and books like it is this new world of can we not just talk about like getting our hearts broken by the person who's our friend. Boyfriend or girlfriend, or they cheated on us, or I just like, every great work of fiction is secretly about that and I'm like You guys

Jason Blitman: 1:03:56

Todd, An author now.

Todd Almond: 1:03:58

knock it off everyone, knock it off. We got to talk about other

Jason Blitman: 1:04:02

is now. It is yours. There's a gap in the

Todd Almond: 1:04:07

talk about other things, right? I don't know I'm sick of people fighting. I'm sick of people fighting. I'm ready for people to hold each other up and to find more interesting things to talk about. That's My read.

Jason Blitman: 1:04:19

This is what we're bringing to 2025. We will, we are going to uplift,

Todd Almond: 1:04:24

Right?

Jason Blitman: 1:04:26

Yeah, I'm totally into it. Todd, I'll let you get back to rehearsal. You're a very important person. You have a lot going on.

Todd Almond: 1:04:33

I'm just trying to move forward.

Jason Blitman: 1:04:36

Everyone go check out Slow Train Coming. It is out now. I say now for when this is coming out. It is out now. Wherever books are sold, go get it. Are you, did you do an audio book? Are you going to do an audio book?

Todd Almond: 1:04:49

There's no plan as yet, but my husband is determined to make that happen. But I, I have something coming out on Audible. I guess it's already out. It's a a show that I wrote for Audible. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'll call, I should call. We call Audible. Let me get on that.

Jason Blitman: 1:05:02

Call your people. Yeah. Wait, what's that? Tell the people what to, what is on Audible? What can

Todd Almond: 1:05:07

Oh, so I wrote this show called I'm Almost There, which was a commission from Audible. So it's basically me at the piano and two musician friends of mine and it's me telling this not true story, it's fiction, but it's this kind of wild adaptation of the Odyssey about a man who's just trying to get to the front door. And it's about love. It's about fear of love. It's about falling in love. And yeah. It's called I'm Almost There. It's on Audible. You can listen to it. Now, David Cromer directed it. And it's really fun.

Jason Blitman: 1:05:37

Love David Cromer.

Todd Almond: 1:05:38

Oh, the best.

Jason Blitman: 1:05:40

I want to hear more about what you're reading moving forward. We'll

Todd Almond: 1:05:44

I do too. Let's have, send me an email of the things you're reading because I rudely didn't ask you what you were reading, but tell me because I'm curious. I rely solely on, I'm, I rely solely on recommendations. So

Jason Blitman: 1:05:55

Be careful what you wish for. I am chock full of them.

Todd Almond: 1:05:59

Take it. I'll take it.

1:06:00

Ira, Todd, thank you both so much for being here today. Happy Pub Day to everyone whose fantastic books are coming out today. Make sure to check out ourdarkbookclub. com. Use the code GAYSREADING to get your book for 4. Highly recommend Death of the Author by Nnedi Okorafor. And then tune in to the GAYSREADING episode if you have not listened already. If you're on the fence, you can listen to the episode because it's spoiler free. And get inspired and get excited. Uh, thank you all for being here. Have a great rest of your day. See you next week. Bye.