0:04

Gaze reading, where the greats drop by. Trendy authors tell us all the who, what, and why. Anyone can listen, cause we're spoiler free. Gaze reading. From poets and stars, to book club picks. Where the curious minds can get their fix. So you say you're not gay, well that's okay. There's something for everyone. Gaze reading. Hello, and welcome to Gay's Reading, I'm your host, Jason Blitman, and I may not be the most Hallmark holiday person myself, but I do love love, and so I wanted to do a special Valentine's Day episode, and I am so excited to be in conversation with Jessica Sofer, the author of This is a Love Story, this month's Read with Jenna book club pick. You know what makes a very great Valentine's Day gift? An Aardvark Book Club subscription. And as you probably know, I'm partnering with Aardvark Book Club to offer an exclusive deal for first time members. You can get your first book for 4 if you use the code GAYSREADING when you check out at aardvarkbookclub. com. First book. Four dollars. Such a good deal. Happy Valentine's Day. You can watch this over on YouTube. The link to that is in the show notes, and also you can find the link in the link tree on our Instagram at GaysReading. We're also over on Blue Sky. And yeah, I hope you're doing something super fun. Or not fun to celebrate Valentine's Day. You can do whatever your heart desires because that's what it's all about. I cannot wait for you to hear this conversation. Enjoy!

Jason Blitman: 1:47

how are you doing? Congratulations on all of the things!

Jessica Soffer: 1:51

Yeah. A lot of things.

Jason Blitman: 1:52

weeks for

Jessica Soffer: 1:53

It's wild. I mean, It's so different than my normal life. I think that's why it feels so dissonant because my normal life, I write in a hole for a million years. And especially like this book, On and Off, took me a long time. My first book came out 12 years ago. So this is a wild time.

Jason Blitman: 2:12

So when this one came out, it was, it's almost, it's obviously not a debut, but 12 years ago, things have changed.

Jessica Soffer: 2:19

have changed. There was definitely none of the did I do a podcast? I don't think I did. And Instagram was not a thing. We did, I did an event the other night with bookstagrammers. These people have all just, I don't, they've also been born in the last 12 years. They're all so young,

Jason Blitman: 2:37

I

Jessica Soffer: 2:38

but it's wild. It's amazing. I mean, It really gives me a lot of hope. That people are focusing on books of all the things.

Jason Blitman: 2:47

it's a good moment, I think, for books, for authors. And so when my finished copy of This is a Love Story came in, it came in without the sticker. Capital T, capital S. And on one hand, I'm like thrilled for you, obviously. for being a Read with Jenna pick, but a non sticker copy of any book club book is a rarity, so I feel like I have a precious gem in my hands.

Jessica Soffer: 3:14

There's also, there's the Barnes and Noble edition has their sticker and their, they have end papers that are really beautiful, actually. I love the Barnes and Noble edition, but yeah, they, there are stickers. I signed some books at McNally Jackson the other day, I don't even know what day it was. And they put in, they had a, we recommend sticker on it. There was the Geneseal and then the signed sticker. It looked like a sticker book in the best way.

Jason Blitman: 3:37

And then if it wins an award, it'll have an award sticker. Just cover it up.

Jessica Soffer: 3:40

We're not banking on awards.

Jason Blitman: 3:42

title of the book? Who knows what the title is anyway? It's just

Jessica Soffer: 3:44

it's a sticker book.

Jason Blitman: 3:45

It's a sticker book. So awesome. Oh my god. Happy Valentine's

Jessica Soffer: 3:50

Happy Valentine's Day. I wore red, you wore red.

Jason Blitman: 3:52

I know, I've clocked that. I love it. I feel like there are so many things I want to talk to you about because you're a New Yorker and of, Central Park, and I want to gush about Julie Bearer because I'm obsessed with her. We could just sit here all day. Okay, let's, you've done the elevator pitch for your book, This is a Love Story, a hundred million times. For the sake of let's say it and then move on, give us, give, what is your elevator pitch for This is a Love Story?

Jessica Soffer: 4:22

That's a lot of build up. I hope I have my elevator pitch. This is a

Jason Blitman: 4:25

Honestly, I've listened to you on so much content, I could probably

Jessica Soffer: 4:28

have? Oh, please. This is a love story. tells the story of two people, an artist and a writer, from the time that they meet until the end of their relationship 50 years later. It has each of their perspectives, the woman's name is Jane, his name is Abe, and then the perspective of their son, Max, who struggles with love, has a complicated relationship with love. A woman named Alice, who's a young writing student, who comes between them, be between the relationship of Jane and Abe, and then there's the perspective of Central Park, which really is a full perspective in the book and sections from Central Park's perspective contain hundreds of anecdotes of things that go on in the park, people that come in and out of the park and various moments of their lives and various ages. There's the dogs who fall in love in the park. There are the unhomed people in the park there. Everybody coming in and out of the park at all moments of life.

Jason Blitman: 5:21

Do you know, I happen to have it right here accidentally do you know Todd Doty's Little Pieces of Hope? It is basically a book of lists of things that bring you joy.

Jessica Soffer: 5:33

Oh.

Jason Blitman: 5:35

Making Things in a Difficult World is the subtitle. And it truly, it just literally lists. fact that the melting of the Wicked Witch of the West is never explained yet quickly accepted. It just, tons of things like that. And when I was reading the Central Park moments of the book, I was like, I could read A 250 page book of just these like micro moments in Central Park. And so that you should do like a little mini companion piece.

Jessica Soffer: 6:00

You know, It's so interesting you say that because one, I've spent a lot of time in the park recently. I don't live in the city anymore, but I spend I've spent a lot of time there recently and just it never gets old. The content never dries up. And I feel like I would like to write another book from the perspective of Central Park. But also I wonder what my next. Weird perspective will be. I haven't found it yet. I'm working on another book and I know the main characters and I know the sort of arc of the story, but I keep wondering for a little while. I thought it was going to be the school gym but it's a little bit narrow. It's a little more narrow than I can work with. So we'll see, but there might another weird perspective book might come up.

Jason Blitman: 6:41

Love. This is Valentine's Day. Very romantic. I feel like I need to tell you about my love story that happened this morning. I don't buy Kaiser rolls because who buys kaiser rolls just to do you know what I mean? They're just not something you have in your home. But I just so happened to last night buy a thing of four kaiser rolls. I was feeling nostalgic or something. And this morning, I was inspired to make a bodega egg sandwich.

Jessica Soffer: 7:11

I love that.

Jason Blitman: 7:12

And I have to say It brought so much joy, it brought so many memories back, it tasted exactly what you want the bodega egg sandwich to be. And I also don't buy American cheese, but at the store last night, they didn't have the pre sliced cheddar, which is what I usually get, and I got American, because my husband prefers that. And so it's literally egg, American cheese, and a kaiser roll, and I was like, this is the taste of New York City, and I'm in love.

Jessica Soffer: 7:40

I love that. I it's so interesting you say that because the other night I was talking to a Bookstagrammer, who has this account where she creates, I can't remember the name of her account right now, but I'll find it and post it, but she takes the covers of books and cooks based on the cover of a book, but sometimes thematically also. And she was saying, she asked me what I thought would be the best thing to cook from this book. And we talked about all the takeout, which is a real theme in the book. I am a foodie, like my first book was a food book. I wrote, I was a food writer for years. I had a column. So it's. It's sometimes strange to me that this book isn't more heavily foodie than it is, but I think there's enough New York food is so particular, and we all, I feel like we have, there's a human experience, a New York City food human experience that feels unilateral and mutual and part of that is certainly the egg sandwich. And also lo mein is part of it. The smell of those hot dogs, I haven't smelled those hot dogs in years and when I was walking through the park the other day, so distinct.

Jason Blitman: 8:38

I was talking recently about expectations set by smells. And then when you're like. intensely disappointed when you taste the thing. And my very first example that always comes to mind is the nuts on the streets of New York. They smell so good. And then you taste them and you're like, this is not as good as it smelled at all.

Jessica Soffer: 8:59

Totally. What even are they?

Jason Blitman: 9:01

What even are they? I, when I poured my coffee this morning, I was so upset that yesterday I used my Zabar's mug and it was dirty. Because I wanted to have my, I should have had my, saved my Zamora's mug for today.

Jessica Soffer: 9:14

Yeah, the book is full of Zabars. The Upper West Side is even more particular in terms of food, and I feel like that is my, the Upper West Side is my food haven.

Jason Blitman: 9:23

Yes.

Jessica Soffer: 9:24

I don't think fairway has a role in the book. Fairway has had a role in my life, but I'm not sure fairway even makes its way into the book.

Jason Blitman: 9:30

Yeah, no, I don't know. I don't think so. But, oh, I would just buy pre made chicken salad from Fairway and a box of spinach and eat them. It's so ridiculous.

Jessica Soffer: 9:40

say, where we live now, there's no good takeout. There's Very limited takeout. Very limited food situation, in part because this, it's a town that kind of closes down in the off season, but how I would yearn for chicken salad and spinach.

Jason Blitman: 9:55

Yeah. It's funny because as I'm, like, thinking about talking to you about love stories and romance this morning, I was like, I have this list sitting next to me of these fantastic rom coms and, movies and the idea that so many of them are blank and blank was just something that was funny to me. And yet, when I really think about my love stories, it's food. I was like, I really think I just want to talk to Jessica about our love of food, because this is queer.

Jessica Soffer: 10:26

But I, when I was pulling together a list recently that didn't end up getting published. I had to take a sharp left and write about something else. But I wanted to write a list of love stories for which the recipient of love was untraditional.

Jason Blitman: 10:40

Mmm.

Jessica Soffer: 10:41

Was into that idea. Do we call it a novel? We call it a novella. Bluettes by Maggie Nelson, where the relationship is with the color blue itself. It's so beautiful. It's one of my favorite books. That's one that I love. A Friend by Sigrid Nunez, where the dog is the, is the love the main love in the book. And then I was thinking what would be the food version of that? I don't know if I feel like there's a. There's that Nora Ephron book, Heartburn, where food plays a big role and heartbreak plays a

Jason Blitman: 11:10

that's not what the book is about,

Jessica Soffer: 11:11

that's not what the book is about. You're right. Yeah. Do you have a food, a relationship with food book that you love?

Jason Blitman: 11:19

I don't think so.

Jessica Soffer: 11:22

I'll write you one. No

Jason Blitman: 11:23

Yes, please! Thank you! Wait, so in this article, what were some of the, what were some of the things that were coming to mind that compelled you to even think about writing it?

Jessica Soffer: 11:32

In the end, the article, which is on Lit Hub is about love stories that aren't too sweet. So not, I wouldn't say they're realistic love stories, but they're love stories where you have to go through the tragic to get to the glory and not even that the end is glory. It's more like the they're just quite realistic. And there's an element of the bittersweet and the disappointment that is just I feel like inherent to any love story at all. And certainly in my, I feel like this is a love story is not a sanguine love story at all. There's a lot of, yeah. Hopefully it's an authentic. Representation of what a long term love is about.

Jason Blitman: 12:06

And it's interesting too because it got me thinking about the difference between a love story and a romance.

Jessica Soffer: 12:13

Totally.

Jason Blitman: 12:14

And I was like annoyed with myself when I had this little lightbulb moment because I was like that's such low hanging fruit Jason Why did that not come to you sooner? Because love stories and like my sandwich story. That's a love story, right? I didn't have a romance with my sandwich, but I felt deep love for it this morning

Jessica Soffer: 12:31

And it's interesting you say that because I also think that the the title has been a little bit of a hot topic. I think a lot of people have been not a lot, I shouldn't say that but some people have been initially concerned that the book would be more of a romance than a love story. Even though it's called This is a Love Story, I think people hear love story and they think romance, which is not what it is. And the novel is a love story, but I think it's also like a loss story, a friendship story, an art story, a New York story. It's like all the things which I think is contained in the idea of love, not contained in the idea of romance. And I'm not even sure, I don't think this book is romantic, except I think that long term love, like the kind of Compassionate don't know what the other word would be, like companionary, that's probably not a word, love, to me is, there is romance in that, like there is romance in getting old with someone, there is romance in taking care of someone when they're ill, which is what happens in the book so I think the romance is maybe untraditional. But it's,

Jason Blitman: 13:34

There's also something about, can you, can something be romantic without it being romance? And I think the answer is yes, right? Central Park in the fall is romantic.

Jessica Soffer: 13:47

Yeah. And meanwhile, the character of Max, who's the Abe and Jane's son, is he's a real jerk and he's probably very handsome. And he's the character that we would assume to be the most he would be the romance character in the book. And yet he flips the whole thing on his head, on its head, because he's so upside down. His relationship with love is so upside down. So I think in a way, the romantic part is not the romance part in this book.

Jason Blitman: 14:13

Are you a romantic?

Jessica Soffer: 14:16

I'm a realist. I think that maybe that's the distinction I've been with my husband. We've been together, not married for 20 years. And I love our relationship deeply, but I, there's not that much like throwing back of our heads and kind of, you know, we've been through a lot and we've seen a lot of stuff together. We've grown up together. And there's more love in, I think. In what we have than I could ever have imagined getting, but would I say that I see it romance and I don't know, I think I feel a little old for romance

Jason Blitman: 14:49

Interesting. Why do you think that is?

Jessica Soffer: 14:51

because I think it requires like some kind of naivete that I think I'm maybe,

Jason Blitman: 14:57

Huh.

Jessica Soffer: 14:59

I don't know, I've crossed the threshold.

Jason Blitman: 15:05

That's interesting to me because as a New Yorker, there are so many things that, there are magical moments that can happen in New York City that I think remind me that I'm a romantic in ways that I forget. So I don't know. I would challenge what you say next time you spend an

Jessica Soffer: 15:29

It might be a semantics thing. I find the world profoundly magical. I find Central Park magical. Like I am brought to tears all the time by the meaning of things. My cat, my daughter, my dog, Central Park, the snow, like these things make me weep all the time. But I don't know if I think of that as being particularly romantic. I think that's like Romance, for me, is maybe aligned with like escaping the world a little bit, whereas I feel that those sorts of things are the most the most essential life things and remind me of the sadness of life and so therefore the utter beauty of life.

Jason Blitman: 16:09

I hear you. And I hear what you're saying too about semantics, I'm just like putting together a scenario in my mind where like, there's a light snow and you're walking around Central Park yourself and you have you're looking in one direction and there's A musician playing something that's so beautiful, and you look to the other direction and there's a an 80 year old couple sitting on a park bench holding hands, and you look another direction and there's a proposal happening down the steps near Bethesda Fountain. Like that to me, I like, I imagine, and I could be wrong, that your first instinct would not be those poor kids, they're gonna get divorced because there's a 50 percent divorce rate, right? That's, but that's realist.

Jessica Soffer: 16:47

Yes.

Jason Blitman: 16:48

That's, I think that's why I said I would challenge you saying that not, I don't want to say that you're wrong.

Jessica Soffer: 16:54

You can

Jason Blitman: 16:54

That's very white man of me.

Jessica Soffer: 16:56

But if that scenario, if you see that scenario as romantic and maybe it is, then I am a hundred percent a romantic, but to me that feel like

Jason Blitman: 17:03

That's magical. I hear what you're saying too. Yeah, Okay. And I guess I find magic to be romantic. But, and, yeah, I am. Okay,

Jessica Soffer: 17:10

it's so interesting that I'm figuring out that I'm a romantic now after having written a book about love, but

Jason Blitman: 17:17

I know, but as we just decided, that doesn't, it's not a romance.

Jessica Soffer: 17:20

exactly. It's about love.

Jason Blitman: 17:22

It's about love. So much of the book, which when I learned that you had a background in poetry, I was like dots connected in a way that made the book make A, more sense, and B like just unlocked so many things cause I was like, this is like a giant poem and this is amazing. And I was thinking that. And so when I knew that you, when I had more context, I was like, Oh, this makes, this is perfect.

Jessica Soffer: 17:46

Can I tell you something about that though? So the other day, I'm not, I don't look at my Amazon reviews or my Goodreads reviews. Once in a while there will be a moment of weakness.

Jason Blitman: 17:56

There was a pause, and then a personal eye roll.

Jessica Soffer: 18:00

Yeah. I'm trying to decide how honest I want to be about how it's hot. It's very hard. Anyway,

Jason Blitman: 18:06

Lots of authors do

Jessica Soffer: 18:08

I don't, I want to be the person that doesn't look because it is gutting. There's no good scenario, even if there are, go ahead. A thousand.

Jason Blitman: 18:16

was just gonna say I know exactly what you're gonna say, because that's what everyone says. They think of the one thing that someone said, even though there are a thousand reviews that are positive.

Jessica Soffer: 18:24

So there was this

Jason Blitman: 18:25

Okay, so you were looking at your

Jessica Soffer: 18:26

I was looking at my reviews, and there was this one review that's, of course, full of vitriol and a one star. But the main thrust of what this reviewer was saying was that, How dare I write a book of poetry? offended, not, this is not offensive, nor does this seem Reflective of a one star review. I think there's a way in which sometimes book club picks are meant to be one way. People think that they're going to be one way. There's an expectation. And this book is maybe untraditional and craft a little bit and style a little bit And I think some people maybe have felt a little bit misled. I don't know why, I love the full breadth of craft in what I read, and I think a lot of us do. But I found that really interesting, that the most hateful thing that they could come up with was that this was a book of poetry. I was like, bless you, bring it!

Jason Blitman: 19:19

That's the nice compliment. Thank you so much. Please change your star rating. Cause you're lowering my average. In the book, throughout the book, there's a lot of remembering the beginning of a love story. What do you remember from the beginning of your love story?

Jessica Soffer: 19:37

You know what's very amazing and has only come to me recently? My parents were together for a long time, not An endlessly long time. They met when my mother was in her thirties. My father was in his fifties and their relationship started with letters. And my husband and I met in college. We were both in a creative writing not a creative writing class, an English lit class. And we started emailing. And that was the beginning of our relationship was with these long emails. And I don't, I think that they're probably on some like college server somewhere that is dead. But I remember that. I remember I remember also, interestingly, not feeling like I thought I was going to feel. Like I just really loved him and I thought that he was so wonderful, but I didn't feel like I lost my head in the whole thing, which, I had, I have felt before and those things, at least for me, haven't been sustainable and haven't been the most supportive necessarily and compassionate necessarily. So I remember the beginning feeling like very gentle and very sweet and earnest. And we had that typical college romance where he would, he was an art student and he would work late nights in the art studio and I lived across the green and I remember when the lights would go off in the art studio, he would walk across the green. I knew that he was coming over because the lights would go off. Yeah, it's been amazing. And then it was, we had, there was a lot of toughness. My father was sick for a lot in the beginning of our relationship. There was a lot of, we experienced a lot of death together and complicated family stuff. We've got, we've gone through it. It's been remarkable.

Jason Blitman: 21:16

So this is very interesting, simply because of what you were, how you identified being a romantic, talking about the naivete of it all, like literally you were describing the beginning of your relationship as being sweet and earnest, right? And those are things that are very naive, I think, at the beginning of a relationship. However, it's so funny the way that perspectives are just so different. I hear you tell me the story of the way your parents relationship started and the way your relationship started with the letters, and the parallel of that for me is so romantic. And that stays forever. Do you know what I mean? Like the earnestness perhaps goes away, but the way that it started doesn't. And that, that for me is very romantic. Anyway. I love,

Jessica Soffer: 22:03

much for having

Jason Blitman: 22:05

Okay, Happy Valentine's Day. We have to talk about your favorite love stories in celebration. What are some? What are you recommending? What's a, is it a novel? Is it a rom com? I have a long list of my own.

Jessica Soffer: 22:19

Okay, I mine aren't, are maybe a little untraditional because they do have an element of darkness to them. So for example,

Jason Blitman: 22:27

Bring it on!

Jessica Soffer: 22:28

love Ocean Vuong's novel, I can't stop talking about it, Unearthed, We're Briefly Gorgeous. I, so dark and so complex. And in fact, there's a sex scene in that book that was the hardest sex scene I've ever read before. It was almost. Unpalatable because it was there was so much hurt and fear and complexity to it, but I just find like the longing in that book so palpable and longing for love, which to me, like that's a love story. So that book, I just can't get enough of call me by your name. I think it's like the most obvious, maybe is that the most obvious one?

Jason Blitman: 23:04

It's so funny, I was thinking the same, literally I was in the shower last night and I was like thinking through some of my favorites, and it's just so good.

Jessica Soffer: 23:12

It's just so

Jason Blitman: 23:13

So you have to mention it. But you're right. It's like a little cliche, however, it's worth the cliche because it's so good. And the book is so much better than the movie.

Jessica Soffer: 23:22

book is so much better than the movie. And I think also I love when the atmosphere, the landscape is a character. And for that book, it's really true. It's like stealing beauty. Did you ever see Stealing Beauty with Liv Tyler? Oh my gosh, it's they're, I think they're in Italy, they're in in Tuscany. And it's just full of

Jason Blitman: 23:41

Say

Jessica Soffer: 23:42

and, yeah, exactly. sex, all the things.

Jason Blitman: 23:45

Oh my god. The book The Safe Keep by Yael Van Der Wouden, I have been pushing and pushing to anyone that would listen to me, but it is sapphic, call me by your name.

Jessica Soffer: 23:57

Oh. I'm all in.

Jason Blitman: 23:59

It's like a little twisty, it's a little mysterious, it's very atmospheric, lots of lesbian sex, and I am obsessed with it, it was so good.

Jessica Soffer: 24:08

Speaking of lesbian sex that not what you expected to

Jason Blitman: 24:11

Not what I was expecting, but I'm here for it.

Jessica Soffer: 24:15

I read All Fours recently and adored it and remembered having read a Miranda Julys story that I cannot find. it came out, it must have been a million years ago, probably like 20 years ago now, and it's about these two young women. They're quite young, they're probably like 18 or 19, and they are hired by this older woman for sex because they're desperate for money. And they're repulsed by her age and I remember that her age was probably 40, which is why it's so interesting to me that she wrote all fours because now she is the, and she's negotiating that in all fours what it's like to be the sort of older ish woman. But that story was one of my favorite love stories. It was tragic and weird and excellent.

Jason Blitman: 25:03

And we don't even know, we don't know what it's called. We don't know if it exists. We don't even, for all you know, you imagined it.

Jessica Soffer: 25:08

Maybe I imagined it. If it wasn't Miranda July, I would say I imagined it. But it's that feels so Miranda July to me. So yeah,

Jason Blitman: 25:15

yeah. Oh,

Jessica Soffer: 25:16

will know it. I also love, there are a lot of short stories that I love that are love stories. Do you remember your first favorite love story? Like the first one that really felt special to you?

Jason Blitman: 25:29

It's so funny because I think realizing the difference between love story and romance shattered that for me. I don't know that I could pinpoint a love story That was important to me, though it's, the very first thing that just popped into my head was the movie Matilda. And the love between books and the love between Miss Honey and Matilda, like that for me is a love story, right? But like when I think rom com, I can never get enough You've Got Mail.

Jessica Soffer: 26:00

Oh, that really speaks to me for obvious reasons. In fact, I was meant to be in that movie because I walked by and they were sitting at that cafe on,

Jason Blitman: 26:09

Lalo!

Jessica Soffer: 26:10

it was a Cafe Lalo on 77th and Columbus.

Jason Blitman: 26:13

Yes!

Jessica Soffer: 26:14

I thought I was going to be in that movie. I was probably in high school. I don't know. But

Jason Blitman: 26:19

Oh my god, that's so funny.

Jessica Soffer: 26:20

Yeah, that one was so good. And she was so cute then.

Jason Blitman: 26:25

Yeah,

Jessica Soffer: 26:25

Meg Ryan then.

Jason Blitman: 26:26

she looked like herself

Jessica Soffer: 26:27

looked like Meg Ryan.

Jason Blitman: 26:28

I know, those were the days.

Jessica Soffer: 26:31

she had a bookstore. That bookstore, why doesn't it exist on the Upper West Side? I, we talk about this all the time. I had my launch at the Barnes and Noble on the Upper West Side, which is a place that's very dear to me. I used to cut class in order to go to that bookstore. But in terms of other bookstores on the Upper West Side it's tricky.

Jason Blitman: 26:47

it was, I believe, inspired by

Jessica Soffer: 26:51

Shakespeare and co? Oh, book

Jason Blitman: 26:53

Shakespeare and Co. And the Giant Barnes and

Jessica Soffer: 27:02

which is still there.

Jason Blitman: 27:03

Yeah.

Jessica Soffer: 27:04

Bless them. What would we be without Barnes Noble?

Jason Blitman: 27:07

I know, and they're, they have become the indie, which is weird.

Jessica Soffer: 27:13

And they're

Jason Blitman: 27:13

obviously they're not indie, but

Jessica Soffer: 27:16

Their booksellers are so great. They really know what they're talking about. It is so interesting. There's Amazon and then there's the indie that is Barnes Noble now.

Jason Blitman: 27:24

I know it's, that's what's interesting when that giant thing can become, it's all about perspective.

Jessica Soffer: 27:31

All of that perspective.

Jason Blitman: 27:32

I recently was in the market for a part time job, applied to a part time job at a Barnes and Noble, and did not get an interview.

Jessica Soffer: 27:40

But why? Don't they know what they're missing?

Jason Blitman: 27:43

I know, I was like, excuse me?

Jessica Soffer: 27:44

You know too much.

Jason Blitman: 27:46

I know, it's true, I know too much. What about movies? What are some, are there romantic or love story movies that you love?

Jessica Soffer: 27:52

This is gonna sound really messed up, but I'm watching Bad Sisters right now.

Jason Blitman: 27:56

Oh, I have not watched it, but it's I've seen it all over the place and I want

Jessica Soffer: 28:00

It's the anti love story, and it's so great. It's so dark. And it's a, it is a love story between sisters, and it's the love story of a place, wherever they are in the world. Ireland, Wales, it's so beautiful and but it's really dark and it's like a cautionary tale, I think, a little bit about one, messing with sisters and two, falling in love with the wrong person. It's excellent.

Jason Blitman: 28:22

Mmhmm. Okay. I have to check it out. I just watched Oh my god, of course the name is escaping me, but the series with Kristen Bell and

Jessica Soffer: 28:33

Adam Brody, yeah, I knew you were going to say that.

Jason Blitman: 28:35

So good. I knew you knew I was going to say that.

Jessica Soffer: 28:37

So good.

Jason Blitman: 28:38

In, in doing some Googling just so that my brain wasn't mush this morning, all of these romances. Romeo and Juliet, Tristan and Isolde, Antony and Cleopatra, Pride and Prejudice, Bonnie and Clyde, Frankie and Johnny, Music and Lyrics, Kate and Leopold. I was like,

Jessica Soffer: 28:56

You must write a paper on this.

Jason Blitman: 28:58

I know. There's a there.

Jessica Soffer: 29:01

Is there a trifecta love story that you can think of that? I don't, I can't think of one, but how interesting would it be if there was that? There was that, oh, there was that Gwyneth Paltrow series that was very pulpy. I can't think of what it is, and there's a trio in it. Oh, never mind.

Jason Blitman: 29:19

In this book festival that I just did, in a conversation with an author, Gwyneth Paltrow came up shockingly. So Gwyneth Paltrow has come up more times in my life in the last Five days, then, in the

Jessica Soffer: 29:33

talking? Maybe it's because everyone's talking about skin care, because no one wants to talk about anything else, so we all just talk about like jade eggs and skin care.

Jason Blitman: 29:40

Oh my god, that's so right. I

Jessica Soffer: 29:43

feels better.

Jason Blitman: 29:45

fight with my beard trimmer yesterday, and that's all I'm talking about this morning. I'm left with a mustache. That's it.

Jessica Soffer: 29:52

Do you not normally just have a mustache?

Jason Blitman: 29:54

No, I typically sport a little scruff.

Jessica Soffer: 29:57

Wow. What a thing it is to have facial, I was gonna say facial hair but men can change their face the daily. It's

Jason Blitman: 30:04

I know it's weird. And the glasses too.

Jessica Soffer: 30:07

I'm new to glasses, but I would have, I'd die without them now. I cannot function without them and,

Jason Blitman: 30:11

Me too. Both literally seeing, but also they are so much a part of me. I love yours.

Jessica Soffer: 30:18

thank you. I love them too. I cannot drive without them. It's really, they're essential now. We've we're the old characters in Miranda July.

Jason Blitman: 30:26

Oh my god. Womp. Are there underrepresented love stories that you want to shout out about? No.

Jessica Soffer: 30:35

Minot? She wrote that book. She, oh gosh, she was amazing. She wrote something in the 80s called Monkeys. It was a short story collection that was so marvelous. And I feel like she was really important for a while. I think everyone thought she was going to be huge. And then she wrote, she might have written Stealing Beauty, come to think of it, that's really wild, but then she wrote a book about a very long oral sex, like it, the entire book is Felatio. It's wild. I can't remember what it's called, but I think people found it problematic and so her career

Jason Blitman: 31:09

How come?

Jessica Soffer: 31:11

I can't imagine, especially on Valentine's Day, but her career took a turn I think and but she wrote a book and I can't remember, she wrote a short story. I don't think it was in monkeys, but it was called Lust.

Jason Blitman: 31:23

Yeah.

Jessica Soffer: 31:24

it sequenced every relationship this woman had from the time she was very young until the time she was an adult. All of them problematic, not all of them problematic, most of them problematic because she herself In, dealt with some issues, but it was phenomenal. Like in terms of structure, in terms of content, the style, she's so good. She is really, she is so good. Underrepresented. That is a love story.

Jason Blitman: 31:51

I can't wait. I'm gonna check that out. I also, I'm gonna, we're gonna put out a PSA about this Miranda July article. We have to

Jessica Soffer: 31:58

find it. We're going to find it.

Jason Blitman: 32:00

Have we asked her? Has anyone reached out to her?

Jessica Soffer: 32:02

but she's so

Jason Blitman: 32:04

Everyone's scared of her.

Jessica Soffer: 32:05

So glad that she exists, that her brain exists in the world. Simultaneously, I'm so grateful not to be her because I think she carries a heavy load, like in terms of being as creative as she is, I think trying to be a functioning human being in the world and being that creative. I think it's, I think it's a lot to be Miranda July,

Jason Blitman: 32:25

I'm sure you're right. I know. She's amazing.

Jessica Soffer: 32:29

also just thought of this Lori Moore. Do you know Lori Moore? She's a short story writer. Oh, she's

Jason Blitman: 32:34

I'm not a short story person usually, but I like want to get more into them.

Jessica Soffer: 32:38

They're so satisfying.

Jason Blitman: 32:40

I recently became a New York Magazine subscriber mostly to practice longer form, shorter, longer form, what, I don't know what to write, because it's like longer form writing, but it's not a novel that's my goal, is to get into shorter stories.

Jessica Soffer: 32:56

There, there's so many good ones. There's so many good ones. And I think that the beauty of short stories, at least for me, like when I, when my, when I first started learning to write was there, they feel at least. Imitable. Imitatable. So you feel like you can replicate them in some way. And of course you can't because they are, you can't replicate a John Cheever story, but there's a way in which you feel like you can. And I think that's actually a really important moment in, in learning, but there's a Lori Moore story and she is so incredible on the craft level and it's called how to be the other woman. And it's in the second person perspective, which I love. Some people have a hard time with it, but I love it. And she basically just offers up all the ways to be the other woman. And it's so fantastic, wholly tragic because this woman, of course, it's a singular woman, though it feels universal, is really struggling with that, that positioning in her life, but it's beautiful.

Jason Blitman: 33:56

My list is so long, I have so many things to

Jessica Soffer: 33:58

I know.

Jason Blitman: 33:59

But I'm obsessed. And it's a short story, so it'll go by

Jessica Soffer: 34:02

Yes. You can probably find that one somewhere. A PDF.

Jason Blitman: 34:06

I started this conversation by telling you my love story from this morning with my not bodega sandwich. What would your food love story be right now?

Jessica Soffer: 34:18

Right now right now it's winter and it's awfully cold so some kind of really spicy curried veggie soup situation. I have a friend who's a professional chef and she makes this coconut curry vegetable stew with jasmine rice. That is my dream meal.

Jason Blitman: 34:37

That sounds so good.

Jessica Soffer: 34:38

So good. But it does change seasonally. I'm really like a seasonal eater.

Jason Blitman: 34:43

Yeah, I, though, could eat soup year I'm such a soup person. There, a perk of This, not job, is getting books from publicists and like even reaching out if I see something that I might want. But I clocked that there was a cookbook called Soup Season and I asked the publicist for it and I'm obsessed. The best part about this book is not only is it soup recipes, it also tells you like what you can cook when you're over it. So it's you made this tomato soup, okay, now here's a great pasta recipe that you could use the tomato soup for and I'm like, oh, this is genius.

Jessica Soffer: 35:26

that's genius because leftovers just die. Yes. Yes. They died, and it's so tragic. I also, another love story book that I could write would be Everything Bagel Toasted with Scallion Cream Cheese and Really Good Locks. That's I know.

Jason Blitman: 35:41

mouth literally just started watering.

Jessica Soffer: 35:42

know. Sam. There's nothing better. In the world.

Jason Blitman: 35:48

What is your Upper West Side place of choice. I mentioned Barney Greengrass to someone the other day and they like, wagged their finger at me and they were like no, it's Murray's. And then they said something and I was like, oh, this is interesting. There's like a turf war.

Jessica Soffer: 36:03

Yeah. I imagine there is a tour for, Barney Greengrass, I love, especially because of the atmosphere. Like the people who work there have been there since 1902 and have been cutting the same fillet of salmon since then, which I, there's something to be said about that. My parents did this thing many years ago where they used to try the gefilte fish at one of five places every year to see which had the best gefilte fish, which is probably like grotesque to a

Jason Blitman: 36:28

Spoiler alert. It was no one because that's disgusting.

Jessica Soffer: 36:32

But it was like a really kind of loving tradition, and so I had no interest in the gefilte fish, so I would always get the alternative, which in many cases was the bagel and cream cheese. And spoiler alert, and like maybe very disappointing to some, Russ and Daughters is my holy grail.

Jason Blitman: 36:48

Oh! No. Disappointing would be if you were like, it was Einstein's.

Jessica Soffer: 36:53

Oh no. No, but I mean it's not an Upper West. I don't know why they're not on the Upper West Side. It feels like they're like missing their holy land, but Lower East Side. But their locks is singular.

Jason Blitman: 37:05

Isn't I think there's a Russ and Daughters in a museum on the Upper West Side

Jessica Soffer: 37:09

No on, is it in the Whitney and, or in the Guggenheim? It's somewhere, yes. But Upper East.

Jason Blitman: 37:16

Oh, I'm confusing my Upper Sides. Jessica, I could sit here and talk to you all

Jessica Soffer: 37:22

The best. So fun. Thank you.

Jason Blitman: 37:24

Thank you so much for being here. Happy Valentine's

Jessica Soffer: 37:27

Valentine's Day. Do you have Valentine's Day plans?

Jason Blitman: 37:30

We are not very, it's so funny as romantic as I am. I like, I love I love a spontaneous romance, right? Write me a, I don't like gifts. Write me a card. I don't need the pomp and circumstance. I just want you to like, do a little nice, kind gesture. That's my brand. Um, Yeah, I know, I should get like a good manzanole soup and warm my insides. What about you? Do you have Valentine's Day plans?

Jessica Soffer: 38:00

Somebody gave us a gift certificate to Joe's Stone Crabs, so we ordered them from Gold Belly, and we're going to have Joe's Stone Crabs, which seems amazing.

Jason Blitman: 38:09

How fun!

Jessica Soffer: 38:10

The concern that has all of a sudden come about that my husband and I are really concerned about is whether or not we get the sauce, because if we don't take the stone crabs, I don't need them.

Jason Blitman: 38:20

I bet you could look

Jessica Soffer: 38:22

Otherwise what would we do?

Jason Blitman: 38:24

what would you do?

Jessica Soffer: 38:26

We've tried making it.

Jason Blitman: 38:28

Should we like, get them on the line right now?

Jessica Soffer: 38:31

Can we phone a friend?

Jason Blitman: 38:33

I know, oh my god, that's, that would be tragic. That would ruin

Jessica Soffer: 38:36

It would, he would be fine. I would not. I don't want the stone crabs without the mustard

Jason Blitman: 38:40

Oh my god. Do you two still write letters to each other? No, probably not. Your email

Jessica Soffer: 38:45

do. Actually, we do. Like when

Jason Blitman: 38:46

Pick up the kid. Don't forget.

Jessica Soffer: 38:49

we write each other cards, they're like lengthy and full of heart. And my daughter writes us notes all the time. She just is learning to read and write and she's a good little writer and she writes us notes every day, all day long. It's her. It's her love language.

Jason Blitman: 39:05

Her love language, that's so cute.

Jessica Soffer: 39:08

Happy Valentine's Day. I hope you find a good soup.

Jason Blitman: 39:10

Thank you. my god, I hope the sauce comes.

Jessica Soffer: 39:12

Me too. I'll keep you posted.

39:14

Happy Valentine's Day, everybody. I promise I have an ask out to her to see whether or not the sauce arrived. This is very important. I'm losing sleep over it. And if any of you have even heard of that Miranda July story, please, DM me, shoot me an email, hello, at GaysReading. com. We need to know what it is. So, thanks for your help in advance. Happy Valentine's Day, everyone. Bye!