Gaze reading, where the greats drop by. Trendy authors tell us all the who, what, and why. Anyone can listen, cause we're spoiler free. Gaze reading. From poets and stars, to book club picks. Where the curious minds can get their fix. So you say you're not gay, well that's okay. There's something for everyone. Gaze reading. You Hello and welcome to Gaze Reading. I'm your host, Jason Litman, and today we have a special bonus episode with Claire Leslie Hall talking to me about her book Broken Country. we sort of allude to it in this episode. Claire was recently announced as this month's Reese's Book Club pick, as well as the Barnes and Noble Book Club pick. So super exciting stuff going on for Claire. Make sure to check out the book so you could be a part of the conversation. Before we dive in, if you like what you're hearing, please share us with your friends. Follow us on social media. We are at Gaze Reading on Instagram or on Blue Sky. You could watch over on YouTube. And we have one day left of a super exciting giveaway over on Instagram. Check that out. Otherwise, sit back, relax, and enjoy this bonus conversation with Claire Leslie Hall.

You know, we're suddenly best friends. I'm so excited. I'm so, I'm so excited. I'm crazy for your podcast, so. And I'm crazy for you and your book! Also, the fact that this is your US debut is, um, both wonderful but also devastating. I'm like, A, thrilled that we get to know you now, but B, where the hell can we buy your books? We have to go buy your back catalogue, so. I can't wait. The really exciting thing is that my U. S. publisher, Simon Schuster, they're putting out the old books with new, um, titles and beautiful new covers with the Claire Leslie Hall name. So, isn't that cool? Fantastic! I, Just for context, my, my March schedule has been sort of booked for a minute now and my therapist said just read books for fun that are not People that you're gonna have on your show and I was like, okay, you're right. I want to remember the joy I mean, I love reading. I, I, every book that I, every author I have on the podcast I look forward to reading their book. I want to read their book But always read with a pen in my hand because I know I'm gonna talk to them So it's, I'm not just reading for enjoyment. I'm reading And I'm sort of thinking, I'm using many parts of my brain. So this was my first book where I said to my therapist, I'm just reading this because I want to and it's bringing me joy and I don't have a pencil in my hand. And of course I finish it and I'm sobbing and I'm like, I have to talk to Claire! Oh, Jason, I love that. That is so great. I so know what you mean as well because of the reading arcs. I love it. It's a real privilege. Also, sometimes you just want to go into a bookstore, buy a book, and read it. I know. But needless to say, I was like, well, I'm going to find something to talk to Claire about because I, I have to. I need to talk to this human. And I have been telling every single human that I know, they have to read it. So, really, this whole episode is just gonna be me telling you how amazing you are and how much I love your book. Perfect. It's so much easier. Um, okay, so let's, for, for the, for the listener who has not yet picked up Broken Country, the fantastic U. S. debut by Claire Leslie Hall, what is your elevator pitch for the book? Broken Country is about a very passionate love triangle that takes place in a small English village in the 1960s and culminates with a big murder trial in London. It's really the story of Beth, a young woman who's completely torn between two very different men and two very different lifestyles and what happens when Gabriel, her first love, returns to the village and turns her life upside down. And it's not a spoiler to tell you that from the opening sentence, you know, a man dies and there's a question mark over who killed him. So it's kind of a love story and a courtroom drama all at the same time. Yes, and that is what I decided I wanted to talk to you about, as you know, because the mixing of genre is relatively uncommon. I think there are often, you know, books with a hint of this or books with a hint of that. But I know, even from talking to so many authors, that their agents, their editors, their publisher wants them to sort of stay in a lane. And in fact, I was just talking to, or I just produced a book festival, and one of the authors there typically writes, Crime fiction, and she, her book was, was Romanticy. Crime fiction is very go, go, go, you want short chapters, you want to get to the resolution quickly, and Romanticy, you don't. So she was writing Romanticy in the style of crime fiction, where it was go, go, go, and her, her editor was like, no, no, no, no, no. We need. We need 30, 000 more words from you. And so even, there are even expectations of genre as well. So I know that you have a really terrific, sort of magical moment of how this story first came to you. Would you mind sharing that? Oh yeah, absolutely. So we live in a very old farmhouse. Um, a very old thatch farmhouse. It's surrounded by fields. And One, and we have, I've got three children and my youngest son, we bought him a puppy and one day my husband was out running in the fields with our youngest son, Felix's puppy. And it was lambing season and he strayed into a field of lambs and the farmer threatened to shoot him. So it was a real moment of horror and it didn't happen luckily. Um, but this very vivid sort of scene popped into my head. I could picture the farmer and his wife in their field of sheep and a young boy and his father running towards them looking for their, um, lost dog and for some reason I had the thought that the boy would remind the couple of the son they'd recently lost. And then I could also thought that maybe there's going to be a really powerful sort of physical attraction between the boy's father and the farmer's wife. So it was like I got this love triangle, um, just pop into my head and it doesn't ever happen like that. I was just going to say, has that ever happened to you? I'm waiting. I'm needing another. Nowhere. How long had it been since your last book? I was actually Probably, people talk about the shiny new idea. I was, I was struggling through book two, trying to get to the end. And sure enough, this idea came and I think that does happen, although it hasn't really happened this time around. But I think when you're, you're, you're struggling with something, you think, Oh, if only I could write that idea. So, um, I couldn't actually get to Broken Country for about six months. So all that time it was kind of like brewing in my head, but I'm gonna say the reality of writing It was nowhere near as easy as I thought it was gonna be. I mean cut to four years later 20 drafts Moving agents just like a lot of despair some rejection and then it finally kind of fell into place and it's funny because Sometimes I think it's really hard to know when you should give up and when you should keep going. And I did actually give up Breaking the Country a couple of times, but only for a little, like, a few weeks, because I love the characters so much. And I'm really glad that I stuck with it. I think everyone is going to be very glad that you stuck with it. I feel like that's a very universal story. And the things that are really meant to be, are the hardest to work through. Yeah, I think I agree with you. And I, you know, I was like, I wish I knew when you should give up, but I think the only answer I can give to that question is. If it's in your heart, you just have to keep bludgeoning your way through, and you'll get there in the end. Yeah. Well, that's true with everything, isn't it? I think we all need a sign on our desk that says, Keep bludgeoning your way through. I was going to say, bludgeon. You know, I can't find the nicer, prettier word. I was going to say, that sounds very bloody. I mean, which is sort of a It's so strangely interesting that that's how you describe it, because it's juxtaposed with you and with, with a love story, right? You don't think of the term bludgeon your way through when you're writing a sweeping romance. And I think that is such a wonderful example of how multilayered the book is. Um, it's astonishing when you look at The, the comp titles for the book. I mean, one of them, of course, is Where the Crawdads Sang, by Delia Owens. And another is Tom Lake, by former Gay's Reading guest, Ann Patchett. Like, who would have ever thought those two books could even be talked about in the same sentence? So you're like, how are these, how are we comparing these two? And yet, here we are with Broken Country. Well, I, the few, I was like thinking about some of the things the book is about. Young Love, Sweeping Romance, Murder Mystery, Murder Trial, Imperfect Family, Love Triangle, right? These are all of, they're, they're, for lack of a better term, tropes that you'd find in different genres. You talked about the complications of the journey. You talked about changing agents. You talked about the years that it took. Did that have anything to do with it? The sort of. uh, giant highway that you were on in terms of, of genre? I think, I mean, a couple of things. I think that I, my first two books were positioned in the UK as thrillers. And I would have said they were dark love stories crossed with mystery and suspense. And so I think I kind of I'm drawn to write emotional dramas that have a Really dark, quick, um, short chapters, suspenseful. That's just kind of what I like reading and writing. So, but I think eight years ago, whenever it was, I got my first book deal. I think you really had to stay in your lane. And I think it was very hard to position my book. And I think it was probably wrongly positioned as a thriller. Um, and now I think things have changed because my agent, my new agent, it was interesting when she put this book on submission, um, I saw her Email sort of heading and she said a love story with the pulse of a thriller So it's like she made a virtue out of it, but it's a ray. That's what I like to read That's why I like to write. Yeah And I also think you know the books that I adore my all time favorite something like The Great Gatsby or The Secret History, you know, there are stories with So that's kind of my vibe but I think I started off, and it was mainly a love triangle with, but a man always died, and it was probably two years in, and I remember saying to my partner, If I could write a murder trial, I think it would really take this book in a new direction. But I just didn't know if I could, because I'd never written courtroom drama before. And I went to the Old Bailey, which is this incredible old court, and you can actually sit in the public, I don't know if you can do this in the States, but you can sit in the public gallery and you can watch a murder trial. And I watched this, and it's just really, it's nuts. It's nuts that you can do it. And you're there and so it's kind of like, you know, it's like watching a play and you see these barristers, you see the prosecution in the front, they've got their wigs and their gowns and the judge is up on his sort of throne and it's so theatrical and inspiring. And then I came home and I wrote my version of a courtroom drama and I think that that is what really kind of, um, gave it its form in a way. So that came quite late. I think it came in layers. What was the trial that you were watching? It was about, um, I got so caught up in it and it was about a young guy who was like 31. It was a manslaughter slash murder trial. And he basically, he'd never done anything wrong ever. He was a guy with two young children. And one day, just before Christmas, it was the end of lockdown, um, he went out with his friends and basically got paralytically drunk. To cut a long story short, his friend went into this club, which he said, you know, there were girls in there and this guy had a partner. He wasn't interested. He said, I'm just going to wait for you here. Um, and anyway, a sort of guy, another man came out and he decided that he had his phone, that he'd mugged his friend and got his phone. So he, um, punched him. And the guy, um, not got knocked out on the pavement and, and died. Oh my god. Oh my god. And honestly, it's weird because, you know, there's this guy is a, who is a victim, you know, who's basically murdered, really. And I felt so sorry for the other guy and it was so interesting because When I was listening to the defense I was completely on his side and then when I was listening to the prosecutor I was like, right, you know, you've got to go down for this Oh my god I kept coming home to my husband and I was so emotional Wow For this poor young guy who ruined his life by basically getting drunk Wow It was an amazing thing to watch. No, what a, what a enlightening thing to experience because it's not, it wasn't fiction. Yeah. Right, you weren't watching a movie, you weren't reading a play. It was, it was a real thing that you were seeing play out. Um, these characters are so richly drawn. Are you, have you written a play before? No, I haven't. Can you? Will you? Oh, do you think I should? I'm asking, would you please write a play? Because I want to see it. Oh, Jason, I'm gonna do it for you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, I'm sure you're not busy at all. Not at all. I am writing a lot. My eldest son is 25 and we started writing a TV pilot. in lockdown. And anyway, we're going back to it. So I guess, Oh, how fun. Yeah, absolutely. This is the first thing he's written, and it's just very fun, um, writing together. That's so cute. Yeah. That's kind of like a play. Yeah. Oh, I love that. Right, because these characters, you, you fall in love with all of them. You talk about in your letter at the beginning of the galley, how you had these three characters in your heart for such a long time. Can you share a little bit about the journey of sort of bringing them to life but then letting them go once you move on? I know lots of authors have sort of different rituals when they're done writing a book or, you know, sometimes have a hard time letting go, sometimes are thrilled to let them go. Oh yeah, actually I have got something. So, um, I've never done this for another book, but, um, the three characters are Frank, Beth, and Gabriel. They're all very different. And I, um, I, I remember I started listening to a, a track, um, by Oliver Arnolds. It's called Happiness Does Not Wait. And, for some reason, it just put, um, Beth and Gabriel into my head. And I could see them by the lake. And so I listened to that song again and again. And then I put together a whole playlist of sort of What my son says is incredibly depressing music, but basically I used to pick him up from the school and he'd be like, oh, not this. But, um, lots of sort of strings and kind of very emotional, heartfelt music. And I guess I had about 10 tracks and I listened to it for two years, every school run, every supermarket trip, every dog walk. And. I think what it helped me do was just stay with the sort of emotion of the characters, if that makes sense. Um, and now, like, this is a bit sad, but, um, when I'm really, if I miss them, I just put the playlist on in the car. And then I'm like, oh, there they are. Yeah. One song, um, I did a Breaking Country playlist, and it's Elvis Presley, Can't Help Falling in Love. And there's a scene in the wedding when, um, Jimmy and Nina and Frank and Beth are dancing and Gabriel's watching, so I, I like to play that song and then I, I kind of, I can picture them. Uh, that's heartbreaking. It's hard, it's really hard letting them go. I remember like when you get your edit back, you're like, Oh, phew, here we are. We're back together again, guys. I know it sounds crazy, but that is how it feels. And then suddenly it's gone. But it is absolutely amazing talking to people like you who've read the book. So it, you know, that's almost I'm bringing them back for you. It's so interesting the concept of sense memory, right, like, it's, I'm sure, you know, you smell something that was cooking when you were at your desk writing and that brings you back. You hear the music and that brings you back. I think we all have that experience at different pieces of our lives, of our lives where we experience something and we, and we're brought immediately back to a moment. So that's cool that you get to do that with the music. Yeah, it's, it's brilliant. I mean, I probably need to move on from that very much. You know, but, yeah. Well, it's refreshing to know that it's always there. So move on, but, you know, when you're feeling really a certain way. You also, I think, you have a few weeks ahead of you of, this is all you're going to be talking about. That's true, yeah. Something, uh, So exciting. You need to find new things to get excited about. Okay, the friend who I told you was obsessed with the book, I texted her this morning, and I said, her name is Lauren. She's a big fan of gaze reading. Hi, Lauren. Um, Hi, Lauren. She, she, I said, if you have any questions for Claire, this is your moment. And she said, she said, this might be invasive, but she's curious if you have that first love that you wish you had a second chance with. Obviously we don't wanna spoil anything, but there is this, that's part of the love story or that's part of the love triangle, right? It's just the idea of someone from your past coming back there was once Love there. Yeah. You, they were sort of moving beyond that. Um, does that, was that drawn from anything in your life? Do you have. It's funny though because, um, Lauren is not the first person to ask me that question. Um, and I think I'm going to get asked it quite a lot. Yeah. I mean, you know, look, I had some sort of very passionate love affairs at the beginning, but I'm not drawing on them. What it was really is, I think, you know, I've been married for 25 years and I've got my Frank, but I think what it really is, is That I can very easily put myself back into that kind of feeling of, you know, when you're a teenager and you've fallen in love for the first time and you just think that's it and you're kind of like, you wake up in the morning together and you're naming your children, you know, it's just a dance and you're like, I remember, I do remember, um, I had sort of. One boyfriend, and then I had another boyfriend, and I remember talking to my sister. I was sort of, I'm not gonna say I was torn between the two, but I'm gonna say these were two kind of formative relationships. I remember talking to my sister, and she said, Claire, maybe it's neither of them. I was like, don't be so ridiculous. Cut to 25 years later, married a completely different guy. So yeah, but what I would say is I just think it's quite easy to remember the sort of visceral sort of passion. It feels like it's been hardwired into your veins that first time you fell in love. It's just so magnified and actually my children are the age now. Um, of, you know, when they're having their first relationships, and I sort of see them going through it, and I think that it's the be all and end all, and I guess that's what I was remembering with Beck. And you're rolling your eyes at them, saying, uh, you're not gonna marry them, I promise. Yeah, exactly. Uh huh. But at the time, you just think, that's it, don't you? Okay, here's a follow up question. Was there a, a non human love? from an early part of your life that sort of fell away. Whether that was career or music or, you know, were you, uh, did you follow a band around the country that you no longer do? Was there something in your youth that brought you joy that you loved that you sort of reflect back on now as That's a good question. Um I don't think that I can think of anything that I, I think I've been a bit, been a bit stay in one lane in terms of being an obsessive bookworm. Always, always wanting to write, just taking a very, very long time to get there. Um, I don't know. I can't think of anything. Yeah, no, that's okay. I would, because it made me realize, because for me, there are just things that I feel like I've quote unquote left behind. You know, chapters in your life that you, that have come and gone and, and you can remember them fondly. And it brings joy, but also sadness when you think about them. You know, there's so much more to life than romantic relationships, and so that is just what got me thinking about it. Yeah, true. And I, I definitely think nostalgia is something that, um, I kind of explore in this book and, and maybe in my other books as well. I'm quite sort of obsessed with, um, nostalgia. Do you like La La Land? It's one of my all time favorite movies. I have to say I've never seen it. Which is very unlike me because I'm a musical theater kid. So. It's so good. It's so, so good and, um, I love that sort of thing of, um, nostalgia. It's quite bittersweet, isn't it? And you're sort of looking back at something that's gone forever, which I think is what you're kind of talking about. And in La La Land, they, um, I don't want to spoil it for you. Thank you. I'll watch it now that I know that you're allowed to. You gotta watch it. Well, I'll tell you what, I'll say instead, in Broken Country, um, my nod to La La Land is, I do this, there's a kind of a little parallel universe sequence by the lake when she's imagining how her life might have been. Um, and I, and I, and I, I'm endlessly drawn to that in books and films, just sort of thinking about, yeah, what might have been, I suppose. Do you ever do that? I suppose I do a little bit. Um, I do a little bit. Yeah, I think I used to do it more when I was younger thinking if I'd done that then this might have happened. I don't, I don't feel it so more much now. Maybe I'm just a bit more content. I don't know, but I don't really look back. I don't look back like I used to. It's funny because I remember my Mom, who actually died when I was, I was 21. and I used to, I was always really interested in her, her life before she met my dad. And she hated looking back. She used to say, I, I, I hate looking back. And I, I, I, and I, I was obsessed with looking back. I used to find it so interesting. Whereas now I guess I don't quite so much. Is that an age thing maybe? That's interesting. Did your mom ever articulate why she didn't like looking back? She never did, and I would have loved to have known, um, but I was just, I was, I guess It's a bit like Lauren's question, I was asking her about sort of past relationships and she just didn't want to talk about them really. Maybe it was that. Yeah. That's fair. I think. Yeah. Well, you know, it's so funny. Every once in a while, there is this, I mean, you have twenty something year old children and so I'm, I'm curious maybe to even ask you, my mom is very, uh. Uh, I don't want to say secretive, because she would never say she's keeping secrets, but she likes to paint this picture that she never did anything wrong, and she was always a good kid, and drugs? What were drugs? You know, growing up in the 60s and 70s, I didn't even know that they existed! It's like, okay, mom, whatever. Um, you know, that sort of thing. The pre kid life and post kid life and, and I think she keeps the pre kid life to herself is what it, is what it comes across as. Okay. No, I think we're pretty open with our kids. I mean, my, my husband's in the. I think they know, they get it, they understand, we have a bit of a past. They do. I love that. We're very open with them. They grew up going to music festivals, um, yeah, they, they, we're really open with them and I'm very open with my daughter. She probably, I think she probably knows far too much. Um, there's probably, I'm sure there's the odd secret, though, yeah, this is a secret I don't know. Yeah, sure. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. And, and that's, and that. is sort of what makes us special as individuals. You, you get that for yourself. Yeah. You know, but there's also something really special in the opposite in, in sharing with your children that you are a fully well rounded, you're, you're, you're a, you're a multi dimensional human who made mistakes and had a past and are looking forward and, you know, all of that I think is really interesting too. Somebody else asked me this, and I, I hadn't really thought of it in these terms, but she asked me about mother, motherhood, and, um, mother, mothering, and the mothers, and how She said, and I was like, yeah, yeah, that's what I intended, of course, but I hadn't ever really thought about it. But, it was, her question was, um, how the characters, like Gabriel, he's so affected by his mother, and Frank and Jimmy are so affected by the loss of their mother, and obviously Beth. As a mother who loses a child. So it's, it's true. I guess it was quite a big theme in the book. Yeah, right, right, right. Exactly. With Frank and Jimmy particularly, and actually, I guess like I say, this is something I went through myself but I didn't realize it until after I'd written Broken Country and I, had a really exciting Zoom call with some, film producers who were interested in buying the, option. And they said very, very sort of tenderly asked me, had I lost a child? And I said, that's no, I'm, you know, I'm so grateful that that is not my experience. But then afterwards I realized that I do have something in common with Frank and Jimmy who lost their mom when they were young, as I did. And. They don't cope with it. They're very sort of shut down and closed and, um, And I think I was like that as well because I was at university It took me like 20 years to kind of come to terms with it. And so that's, I definitely put that in the book Yeah, and but I didn't realize I was putting it in the book at the time. I was just, yeah, writing it. Oh, how interesting. What a sort of beautiful subconscious, I imagine therapeutic experience that you didn't even realize you were having. I didn't, but I could really identify with Frank and Jimmy who have their suppressed grief and it kind of comes out in different ways, you know, with Jimmy, he's very volatile. And, you know, over emotional, and, yeah, hey, hello, I think I was the same. And Frank, he's a bit sort of shut down like a wall. And yeah, I think I was a bit like that as well. Yeah, it's so funny every once in a while when you like do something creative and you reflect back on it and you're like, oh. I think there's a lot more of me in there than I realized. Yeah, oh completely and actually because my um old books are are being republished I had to go back and re edit them. And, my God, that was so interesting, because I hadn't read them for six years. And I'm like, oh, right, hello, that's what I was obsessed with. And those were the things that I was thinking about at the time. It's kind of fascinating, you put so much more of yourself in your books than you realize. Yeah, did you make any changes upon editing? You weren't rewriting or revising, you were really just editing. Just editing, um, sort of like, just like updating certain things. And the second book, um, which is called, uh, Days You Were Mine, I actually wrote a new ending. And it was so lovely to be able to do that because, um, I've never been convinced by that ending. Wow. And, uh, and so it was just, it, I, it's a much more hopeful, optimistic ending, which I always wanted. And because I had to write that book quite early. quickly because of the sort of deadline. Uh, I, I was just so thrilled to get the chance to revisit it. That's incredible. That's so cool. Lucky. Yeah. Because it was the one thing I've never felt I got quite right. So, um, yeah. Well, and it's so interesting too, because as you know, we're talking about like reflecting on our past, et cetera, there. You might not have actually felt this way, but let's say there was the teeniest part of you that maybe had some semblance of resentment that you weren't published in the States at the time. And what a blessing that you weren't, you know, because now you have this opportunity. It's very, the way that the world happens, the way the universe sort of writes itself sometimes. Oh, I know. Yeah, a hundred percent. You just never know, do you, what's going to happen in the future. How do I want to say this? There are lots of rumours going around, I'm not asking you anything directly, but word on the street is there are exciting things to come for you. How are you feeling? I'm feeling really, really brilliant, yeah. I'm feeling so excited and happy, and lucky, very lucky. Yeah, I'm very, very excited for you, you're embarking on your journey. You're gonna say the elevator pitch of this book 800 more times in the next two weeks alone. You're gonna, you know, talk ad nauseum about how this book came to be, which you've already done and you're about to do more of. Is there something that you I hope people ask you about, that you look forward to talking about, that is meaningful to you, is something that you want to share, anything that you're like, oh, I, if, at the very least, I want to make sure I get this out somewhere, here is the place, regardless of what someone might ask you. Oh, um, that's a good question. I mean, I do, I really love talking about, I know we've touched on it, I like talking about the nostalgia, because I think that a lot of people don't pick up on that. Yeah. And. Um, I think for me, it was such a huge, um, part of the book because I think I was asking whether it's possible to love two people at once. And I was kind of answering it by, well, obviously creating two men that she did love at the same time. But I was also, um, thinking about how. Nostalgia is like we think of it as this kind of pink sugar scented emotion, this kind of looking at days gone by and actually I think this is what I kind of wanted to say in the book that if it comes at a time in your life which is really traumatic and what could be more traumatic than having lost a child, then it can be really menacing and dark and nobody really thinks of it in that way and you can be pulled back into wanting to start again whether or not that's right for you and whether or not that's possible it probably isn't possible is it it's like you can't ever really go back so I guess I hope I get to talk about that a little bit. I love that. Well, and to expand on that a little bit, there's something so interesting about the idea of a happy memory turning into a sad one. I, yeah, I totally agree. And, um, and also the whole memory thing, you know, you remember things, um, so differently at different stages in your life, don't you, I think. So, yeah, I, I, I would love to talk a little bit more about that and Beth's journey. And also, I guess, another thing I wouldn't mind talking about is, Well, how long have you got? Listen! You know I'm obsessed with you. Bring it on. I really, with Beth, I, I'll tell you what, I, When I started this book, the men had voices. So, Frank and Beth both had a voice, and it only really started to work when I put it into, um, my dog's just turned the light off. I'm gonna turn it back on. Can you believe it? How did that even happen? That's so funny. It's never happened before. That is passive aggressive if I've ever seen it. It's like, pay attention to me, mom. You're talking about the voices. The voices, so I put it into Beth's voice. And that was just brilliant because it is a woman's story. It's about a woman who's torn between two men. And I also put it from contemporary back to the 50s. And that was because I just kind of wanted to show what her journey was and how she has such a hard time because she's born to sort of parents of modest means. And compared to Gabriel, who's this rich, handsome, privileged guy, Yeah. who get, his life never gets knocked off course. I felt like her journey was really interesting because it's not about the two men that she's choosing. It's eventually, it's about working out what it is that she wants for herself. And what her life means to her. And I think by the end, you know, she, she, she knows who she is and what it is that she wants. So I guess that's, that's interesting to me as well. We love her. I'm very proud of Beth. Are you allowed to talk about the books coming out? Do we know when? Are we allowed to talk about what their new names are? Yes, definitely. My new books, my old books. Your old new books. My old new books. Published, um, as e books first of all. Uh huh. And, um, then I think there'll be paperbacks. And they're called, Pictures of Him and Days You Were Mine. Love. And they're, I would say they're similar tonally. Um, they're both love stories. Days You Were Mine is about, it's a sort of adoption story, it's about a, um, adopted son who reunites with his birth mother with sort of catastrophic repercussions, and it's set in the 70s, um, which is the birth mother's kind of rock and roll music industry storyline. Quite a lot of my own life going on there, obviously. And then the 2000s. I basically ripped my husband's life story off of that show, that's what, that's what happened. That's what husbands are for! Yeah, exactly. And then it's set in the noughties when they reunite as well. And the first one, Pictures of Him, is not un it's not dissimilar to Broken Country in a way. It's another love triangle. And, um, but it's modern day, and yeah, it's about a woman who's married and then her first love sort of comes back into her life. Hello? Um, yeah, same. Same. See, this is, this is, this is why people, this is why people might think that you had a previous love in your life that you're still harping on. Yeah, this is it. Well, maybe I do. It's a secret, basically. If that's okay, if you don't mind me asking. No, I don't mind, and I am reading some, I've read a couple of arcs which just blew my mind. The Tomorrow Project by Heather Critchlow. Oh! And that is, it's such, it was, it's a dystopian novel. And I don't normally read dystopian fiction, it's just not something that I'm drawn to. But it's brilliant because it's really, it's basically a love story about love at the end of the world. And, uh, and she just delivered, it's just perfect for that. And then, I mean, the book that's out there already, which I know you know, is, um, The Wedding People. Oh. Do you, Alice, have you read that one? I have not read it. It's also on my shelf. Oh, okay. Um, Alison Espach, I think that's how you say it. Yes. Oh my god. You are going to love it. It's, it's sort of a dark premise, but it's hilarious. And everyone, everyone said it is so much darker than the cover makes it out to be. Yeah, it is, it is dark, but it's, but it's hilarious. And it's, and it's kind of got rom com vibes as well. Hey, I think this is a genre crossing book, actually. Interesting. Yeah, love story, you know, domestic drama. It's fabulous. So I'd love to. Yeah, there are some, there are lots of great books that I think have very strong pillars of multiple genres. But um, I don't know, there was something about Broken Country that was just too special, not too special to pass up. Um, it, it being pitched as a sweeping romance with the pulse of a thriller, it makes the reader want to pick it up and say, yeah, prove it. Interesting. And then you do. Oh, yay, so much. That's what's so fun about it. It's like, how could that be true? And then it is, and it is so, uh, wonderful. Again, how long do you want? I could just sit here and tell you how amazing you are all day long. Yeah, all day please. Yeah, but now I've got the problem of what next? You brought it up, not me. I know, but I, well, I, I've, I've got a set of ideas bubbling around, but I haven't really had a chance to sit down. But I'm like, how do I do a love story with the pulse of a thriller again? Can you? Who knows? Well, but also you've done it, so you can move on to the next thing. I can. You're right. Yeah. I think that's what it is. I've got an old idea, and I keep going back to it, but I think I need something totally new, I think. That's what I'm waiting. I'm waiting. I'm going around the field looking for inspiration. Well, but also maybe the whirlwind of the next two weeks will, will spin it out of you. That would be nice. I'm sending whirlwind creativity vibes for you. While you're on a plane, you'll have, you'll see something that will inspire you. Exactly. Yeah, that would be nice. Actually, I'm going to New York next week and it's so exciting. I love being there. It's just so exciting. So yeah, I think maybe I can set something in New York and then I get to go back, though. Yes. Just go like sit in a coffee shop for two hours and you will see so many things that will inspire you. Yes. I'm, Claire, I could talk to you all day. Likewise. I'm so grateful for you, for your being here. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I often do not get so effusive with a guest about their book because it is unprofessional, but I loved Broken Country so much, I'm thrilled for you, I'm thrilled for the book, I can't wait for the world to experience it, and you're just a delight. Oh, thank you so much. I mean, I'm obsessed with your podcast, A, and B, I've absolutely loved talking to you. It's been so much fun. Oh, I'm so honored, truly

Claire, thank you so much for being here. Everyone. Thanks for tuning into this bonus episode. I will see you next week for our regularly scheduled programming. Have a great rest of your day. Bye.