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gays reading, where the greats drop by. Trendy authors tell us all the who, what, and why. Anyone can listen, cause we're spoiler free. gays reading. From poets and stars, to book club picks. Where the curious minds can get their fix. So you say you're not gay, well that's okay. There's something for everyone. gays reading. You Hello, and welcome to Gay's Reading. I'm your host, Jason Blitman, and on today's episode I have GN Chong talking to me about his book. I leave it up to you, and then I'm joined by today's guest, gay reader, the fabulous trans icon. Dylan Mulvaney. She talks to me about what she's been reading and also about her new book, paper Doll Notes from a late bloomer, which comes out today. Both of their bios are in the show notes. Uh, also coming out today, there are so many books that are hitting the shelves, and I'm just gonna rattle off a handful of them we have Luminous by Sylvia Park Kills well with others by Deanna Rayburn, Jane and Dan at the end of the world by Colleen Oakley, which I read and is so much fun. Think Bel Canto with some added whimsy. I. God is complex by San Gina Satan. I loved her previous book, gold Diggers, so I'm so excited to dive into that. All the other mothers hate me by Sarah Harman, which I am a few chapters into, and I'm laughing on every page. Self-Sabotage by Jeffrey Self and. Stag Dance by Tory Peters, who all of those books are out today. As always, if you like what you're hearing, please share us with your friends. Follow us on social media. We are at Gaze Reading on Instagram and Blue Sky. You can also watch this conversation and a whole bunch of others over on the YouTube channel, and you can always like and subscribe to Gaze Reading wherever you get your podcast, so that you will be the first to know when a new episode drops. And I am thrilled to share that I'm continuing the partnership with Book Club. To provide an exclusive introductory discount, new members in the United States can join today, enter the code gaze reading at checkout, and get their first book for$4, and that includes free shipping. You can find that link in the show notes as well as all the other links that we've got. We have the link tree on the Instagram, all sorts of fun things. and now please enjoy my conversation with Nu Chong and Dylan Mulvaney.

Jason Blitman: 2:39

Hi, Ginu. Welcome to Gay's Reading. Of course, how you doing today?

Jinwoo Chong: 2:48

It might interest you to know that I have a day job and so balancing that with writing is it's getting harder now that writing becomes more, is becoming more legitimate for me as the months and years go by. And figuring out how to manage that without totally going crazy. Or getting fired is an important thing.

Jason Blitman: 3:14

No shade to the full time job, but is the goal to not have the day job anymore and just be writing full time? I know some people love what they do during the day, so maybe,

Jinwoo Chong: 3:25

I I would love to say I would not like to have a day job. But I really believe that having all the time in the day to commit to writing would Drive me insane because of, cause I, it's never done for me. Nothing's ever finished. And then once I hit the deadline, then you have to submit whatever project it is that I'm working on. I just find myself tinkering with it until there's no time left. And so if I had all day long, I would just, I think my stress level would be through the roof. And so it's a nice kind of check on my. On my sanity to have kind of a job. That is it. My job is really unrelated to anything creative. It's very businesslike. And I can turn that part of my brain off during the day.

Jason Blitman: 4:20

Yeah. And also, if you're going to, if it is helpful for you to have something to distract you from the writing project that you're working on, you might as well be getting paid for it.

Jinwoo Chong: 4:30

Totally.

Jason Blitman: 4:31

So I'm so sorry that we're recording this as early in the year as we are. The book doesn't come out for a long time. I assume you've not done a single thing for this yet.

Jinwoo Chong: 4:45

I really haven't. I've done a couple like random things. The, this is my first book. This is my second book, but it is my first book with a a big, conglomerate publisher. And one of the thing, one of the very first things I did in the fall was a panel that Penguin Random House was doing for librarians.

Jason Blitman: 5:06

Oh.

Jinwoo Chong: 5:07

I did it with Karen Russell and Katie Kitamura and it was just, I was completely starstruck. I didn't know what to do with anything. And then everyone else seemed so comfortable. They all thanked the librarians for coming and I didn't have anything prepared like that. I just had to be like, I love libraries too. And even though I do, it was just preparing for media appearances, however small they can be, in book publishing is something I'm not totally ready for yet. I'm just getting into it. And so this is good practice.

Jason Blitman: 5:46

Yeah, this is a safe space. I'm here for you. But Insider Scoop for the listeners, I started reading, I Leave It Up To You, basically as like a, Is, am I going to vibe with it? Should I program it for March when the book comes out? And next, and usually I'll read I don't know, 10 or 15 pages and just, get a little bit of insight. Next thing I knew I was a hundred pages in and wrote to your publicist and was like, okay, can I talk to Ginu? now because I don't want to forget anything about the book. So that's how we got here.

Jinwoo Chong: 6:21

Huh.

Jason Blitman: 6:21

For our listeners, can you give us the elevator pitch for the book?

Jinwoo Chong: 6:26

Yes. Okay. I've been preparing for this.

Jason Blitman: 6:29

Fantastic.

Jinwoo Chong: 6:30

I leave it up to you, is It's a romantic comedy. It is a food novel, a restaurant novel. It's also a family novel about a young man who for random reasons was in a coma for basically all of COVID and awaken. without anything the same in his life. So his fiance is gone. His job is gone. His home is gone. All of it has just changed without him knowing. And so the only thing he has left is to return to his family in Fort Lee, New Jersey from whom he is estranged and. What he ends up doing is helping out in their restaurant, which is a sushi spot very much ensconced within the Korean American community in Fort Lee, which is a real life thing. A lot of Koreans live in Fort Lee, New Jersey, and it is about learning to start over from scratch.

Jason Blitman: 7:32

But starting over from scratch is, I think, a terrific way to put it, and I have something to talk to you about related to From Scratch later. But it, there's an element that reminded me of the seminal 1995 film While You Were Sleeping.

Jinwoo Chong: 7:52

Yes, and you know while you were sleeping amazing title. It's just it works for so many different things It's something I all the time for sure Inspired

Jason Blitman: 8:05

While You Were Sleeping. is a movie where, and I talk about this every once in a while, movies that I've seen the second half of more than the first half of, because it's like, it'll be on TV and I stop to watch it but First Wives Club, A League of Their Own, While You Were Sleeping, these are all movies where the second half I know very well, and the first half, It's sometimes a little sticky for me. Okay, so if we're talking about the 1995 seminal film, While You Were Sleeping, I also have to bring up the 2005 seminal film, In Her Shoes. And now I'm gonna put you in her shoes and ask you something, are you unfamiliar, you're unfamiliar with In Her Shoes?

Jinwoo Chong: 8:46

heard the title.

Jason Blitman: 8:47

Okay, Cameron Diaz.

Jinwoo Chong: 8:49

Oh, yes. Yeah now I know. Okay. This is a deep cut This is

Jason Blitman: 8:53

Yeah, no, when I say seminal, I was really being facetious. But now I want to put you in the shoes of Jack Jr. who has been in a coma for all of COVID, and I'm curious to know, who would you want there when you woke up from a two plus year coma?

Jinwoo Chong: 9:10

would be the same as him Jack jr. Wonders immediately where his fiancé, Ren, is and the fact that Ren is not there forms the initial trauma of the first hundred pages. And his absence is felt very deeply there. And it's exactly what when I was trying to figure out what would be realistic there, because Physically speaking, waking up from a coma that long, it just doesn't happen, so it requires some suspension.

Jason Blitman: 9:46

Yeah.

Jinwoo Chong: 9:46

I was trying to put in some sort of realism, and the only thing that I could really latch onto was what I would do in that situation. I would ask for my husband, Bram, who's, the wall is over there. He's probably right behind that wall working because he has a job as well. Maybe.

Jason Blitman: 10:11

Wondering how many times you're going to mention his name. Is there a quota?

Jinwoo Chong: 10:16

He's told me he was a potter. I would ask for him. And, I, it got me to thinking about if he weren't there and nobody seemed to really want to tell me why he wasn't there, that would probably be Just unimaginably devastating.

Jason Blitman: 10:32

Is there someone that you wouldn't want there? If you woke up and saw them, you'd be like, oh god, this is terrible.

Jinwoo Chong: 10:41

can think of quite a few people from high school. But no, no recents.

Jason Blitman: 10:46

That's a good thing, I think.

Jinwoo Chong: 10:48

Becoming 29, which I am now, and then moving into the 30s, I have entered a period of not speaking with people that I don't want to speak with anymore. And my world has winnowed down. It's narrowed, but it's become more meaningful. And so I can't say that I would not want anyone In my life currently to be there.

Jason Blitman: 11:13

Good. That's what we hope for as we move into our 30s. The 30s are good. It's a good place to be. Okay, you're still, I'm keeping you in his shoes. There is brief, morbid talk about how different people might want to die, like a writer would want to die face first into their typewriter. If you had to choose, how would it be? What would you want to be face first into?

Jinwoo Chong: 11:42

Face? Okay. Those are two separate questions. Okay, let me see. I I fear death very deeply. I do not want to know that it's coming. In a submarine, definitely not. In a plane going down, definitely not. I would love to just have it be a total surprise. Like The End of Sopranos. Although that's up to debate. Up to debate. Maybe it doesn't, maybe it's not what happens there. But I would probably, yes. And then face first big bowl of butter chicken.

Jason Blitman: 12:21

Oh, interesting.

Jinwoo Chong: 12:23

I think butter chicken is my favorite food of all time.

Jason Blitman: 12:26

Really?

Jinwoo Chong: 12:27

Yeah, it used to be sushi, and then through a bunch of trips to London, I've just eaten so much Indian food and gotten a taste. of what that's and there's nothing better than butter. Butter Chicken and Chicken Tikka Masala are pretty similar. One is British, and then one is Indian, but they are both they're both amazing. And so I would want to be faithful, just face down in that.

Jason Blitman: 12:50

Face down into butter chicken. Okay, I don't know that I've ever had butter chicken.

Jinwoo Chong: 12:54

Oh! You've got to try.

Jason Blitman: 12:56

I know, I need to get on this. I do think, for me, it would be Sushi,

Jinwoo Chong: 13:00

Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 13:01

which, if nothing else, the cover of the book is gonna get my attention. On to sushi, because this is important for me, slash my stomach just growled, and I think I know what I'm having for lunch.

Jinwoo Chong: 13:15

Very good.

Jason Blitman: 13:16

do you make sushi?

Jinwoo Chong: 13:18

I honestly, no, I've tried a couple of times

Jason Blitman: 13:23

this is a safe space.

Jinwoo Chong: 13:25

You so much for for reassuring me.

Jason Blitman: 13:27

Yeah.

Jinwoo Chong: 13:29

because I think It really just awes me the amount of artistry and mastery that needs to go into. And it's different for different kinds of sushi. Like the rolls that people make, those are pretty simple. But the kind of sushi that Jack Jr. makes in this book is It's mostly nigiri, which is like the most traditional, it's a bed of rice with fish laid over. And I don't think I could ever make that because of all of the discipline that it takes. I did I, most of the research that I did into this book was about the skills required to be behind the bar like that. And yes, yes. Exactly. It's it's deceptively simple. And one of the signs of really good skill and all of that is how simple it looks and how easy it looks for somebody, someone when they're observing it to be like, oh, I could make that too. Most people can't.

Jason Blitman: 14:39

Sure, and we've all had, that one piece of nigiri where we're like, Ooh, that was not the right cut. But,

Jinwoo Chong: 14:46

Oh yes. Yeah. You instantly know when it's wrong. And then when it's right, the other way around.

Jason Blitman: 14:53

It seems effortless. Yeah. I ask whether or not you make sushi because of how deeply rooted making sushi is in the book. There's a quote in the book that again, I assume, was you noting

Jinwoo Chong: 15:07

Yes.

Jason Blitman: 15:08

Because someone says that they've seen every documentary about sushi on YouTube. And I started watching a little bit of hero dreams and su dreams of sushi, which looks incredible. What, tell me more. Tell me everything. What do we need to watch? is the best thing that you've learned?

Jinwoo Chong: 15:30

Let's think. Okay. So JIRA Dreams of Sushi is probably the one that I've seen the most. It's like a comfort watch. And for a while it was on Netflix. I don't know if it is anymore, but it was also very early. Maybe eight or 10 years ago. It came out. And since then, there's been a lot more content about sushi, which is really lovely. There's a lot of series on Netflix. There's a lot of videos. Eater New York, or Eater, the YouTube channel, produces a lot of really quality videos on that. But I would also say the best way to observe is just to Go get omakase somewhere in the city, and it doesn't have to be 500. It can, there are quite a few spots with that same kind of reverence for the craft that you can go to for much affordable, much more affordable prices. And just sitting behind there and seeing how the chef kind of interacts with their customers, walks everybody through it and the ease. with which they seem to just go about it, even though everything is so regimented, so choreographed. It's really lovely to see, and it's one of my favorite things to go and see.

Jason Blitman: 16:53

And in doing your research, was there something that surprised you?

Jinwoo Chong: 17:00

I, there was some, there is a passage later, it recurs through the novel, in which Jack Jr. Talks about how there is a certain kind of, egg custard that he can't figure out how to make, and its recipe is lost on him. And that came from watching a couple of things about, it's called tamago, or tamagoyaki. And the way that it's made is so convoluted and crazy, and you basically have to like, almost steam it over a fire. It's done so delicately and it can go so wrong and one of the, one of the really more memorable parts of Jiro Dreams of Sushi that I can think of is when one of Jiro's apprentices, who now owns a bunch of restaurants in New York, he spent years trying to make this tamago up, that were up to, his teacher's standards, and he failed for years, and the first time he made it right Jiro Ono said, This is right. And then he literally broke out in tears and Because it was so difficult for him to do. And that surprised me a lot. It's not, cause that's one of the things that, that actually requires cooking. It's not just about, a slice. It doesn't happen in just. It's this really regimented recipe that needs to happen for it to for the traditional kind, at least made. That was really surprising to look into. I can't say that I, I like tamago all that much, but it's I have a lot of respect for the craft.

Jason Blitman: 18:43

there's a moment in the book where the folks. who are working at the restaurant are talking about a customer biting pieces in half, eating sushi incorrectly. For the record, can you state the most appropriate way to eat sushi?

Jinwoo Chong: 19:05

say. When the characters comment on that, I don't approve. It's it's not right. If we were in Japan, it would be different, but this is,

Jason Blitman: 19:17

This is in New Jersey.

Jinwoo Chong: 19:19

it's being translated. It's the same thing when people complain about, Americanized versions of different cuisine. It's not purely that cuisine anymore because it's being made by Americans in America. Like it's a whole different thing.

Jason Blitman: 19:33

An interest, totally.

Jinwoo Chong: 19:35

Yeah, that's my personal philosophy of it when so back in Japan where the craft was invented you Shouldn't dip it into soy sauce. You shouldn't use chopsticks you actually eat it with your hands because part of the Experience is the transfer of heat from your skin from the chef's hand Also to your hand and the whole thing needs to be around room or body temperature for it to just for, that's the most ideal way to eat it. And that's what they're commenting on in the novel. I, unless it's a really nice place and it's clean, I use chopsticks. I dip the rice in. People say you're not supposed to dip the rice in. Sometimes I dip the rice in. Sometimes I say no wasabi. All of those things. It's endlessly customizable and I Everybody should eat it. However, they want to eat it. Yes.

Jason Blitman: 20:41

Like the baseline and then you can just go from there. But for example, my husband is a born and raised New Yorker, and if he sees someone like, eating a piece of pizza with a fork and knife. He, it makes his skin crawl, but listen, to each their own, but that doesn't mean he's not going to feel a certain way about it.

Jinwoo Chong: 21:01

And I don't know that this philosophy I have extends to pizza. If I saw someone eating pizza with a knife and fork, I might react the same way.

Jason Blitman: 21:12

Listen,

Jinwoo Chong: 21:13

There are limits.

Jason Blitman: 21:15

I know there are limits that make, I'm like, now I'm curious to think about what else I would feel that way about,

Jinwoo Chong: 21:21

Yes.

Jason Blitman: 21:23

I'm going to give that some thought.

Jinwoo Chong: 21:25

Me too. I'm wondering.

Jason Blitman: 21:27

It's oh, if someone, if I see someone eating soup, but just drinking from the bowl and not eating using a small spoon instead of a soup spoon. the things that you feel, it just doesn't feel right. Something about, I don't know. I don't know.

Jinwoo Chong: 21:40

I could talk for hours and hours about airplane etiquette and people doing, people traveling by air incorrectly, as in being rude to people hogging space, not being prepared when you get to any of the checkpoints.

Jason Blitman: 21:57

If you have TSA PreCheck, you've been through it so many times, why are you not prepared?

Jinwoo Chong: 22:02

Exactly. Yes. And it's high stress, it's very, it's awful to travel in this day and age, and so my feelings are very sensitive there. I'm coming back from a number of trips, and so my feelings are raw currently about that, which is probably why I'm off on this tangent right now.

Jason Blitman: 22:24

Is there something that you would say is the most egregious thing that's ever happened?

Jinwoo Chong: 22:28

The one that I can think of was the emergency stop, the plane was grounded, and they pulled the slides. And people are blocking the aisles because they're trying to bring their carry ons with them to go down the slide. And there was a fire in the back of the plane. This happened a few months ago. And you can hear in the video the flight attendants yelling and screaming, Leave your bags. And they're still grabbing their bags. And part of the travel is the safety and some of these rules are in place to keep people safe. It's just it's just really, it's, it makes my blood boil to talk about it. And so there's definitely a wrong way to travel that we've seen quite

Jason Blitman: 23:15

There's this selfishness, I think, that we are seeing a lot these days, and that has come up a lot in a lot of different capacities. But you were saying that these feelings are perhaps raw for you, which is why you're bringing them up. And I literally have a note about an interesting metaphor of raw throughout the book, like literally raw sushi, but also like raw emotions and what we were saying earlier about starting from scratch. There's this idea about starting from scratch, feeling this very like raw sense of Like that's, when you start from scratch, things are raw or tend to be raw, or it's like raw And how many times am I going to say the word raw? Talking about raw emotions. There is something very, what I will say perhaps inherently queer or very relatable to the queer community when it comes to relationships with families and, early on when we were talking about the story, you mentioned that Jack Jr. has been estranged from his family and really he hasn't spent much He, even before he was in the coma, he hadn't talked to his family in quite a while, and now it's really the only group of people that he can turn to post coma. But the way that it's talked about in the book, again, feels not dissimilar, I think, for a lot of gay men in particular, and then people in the queer community. Is that relatable to you? Is, what's your relationship like with your family, if you don't mind talking about it?

Jinwoo Chong: 24:40

It's totally

Jason Blitman: 24:41

uh

Jinwoo Chong: 24:42

And um, something that I really set out to do with this book Not to rehash something that's been done, I think, a lot in fiction about gay people and their families, which is just, the 2012 of it, of someone coming out and being totally gay. Rejected by their family. It being so black and white. That is the case for a lot of people or a lot of others. It is much, it's a much more complicated kind of melange of positive and negative the experience of themselves with, in front of their families. And it was like that for me too. It wasn't this explosive moment. I feel like it took, it wasn't, it didn't have, it didn't unfold in a single evening as it often does in media about that sort of kind of thing. It took my parents a long time to become comfortable with it. Once they met my husband, it was a whole journey from there as well. It was everybody working over a bunch of different things to become comfortable with the idea and me becoming comfortable with it as well. To live openly in front of them. That is a much more interesting thing to me than some explosive coming out and rejection. I feel like for the general audiences of queer stories. That's been told already. And I feel a need to complicate that a little more and more realistic about what that experience is like for so many people, Not everyone's parents are. are what, those conservative religious parents in TV are. A lot of them are along this large spectrum with their own kinds of thoughts and feelings about it. And in that medium is where most people lie. And that story really is only just beginning to be told. Like It's not always about coming out,

Jason Blitman: 27:02

No.

Jinwoo Chong: 27:03

yes,

Jason Blitman: 27:04

what I find, that's what I find so interesting about the book is that it's the sort of trauma within the family. I would argue has nothing to do with him being gay, right? And so it's still the idea of an estrangement and then a reconnecting is something that I think happens in that medium place as you were describing. It is, this is not a coming out story. This is not a rom com. It is not a relationship story, right? It's like almost like a recoming of age.

Jinwoo Chong: 27:39

yes. I love that. I love the, I love that term. Cause it makes me think about how people in that community, LGBTQIA plus people come of age constantly. Like they are constantly growing. They're constantly trying. New things in this because the path has not been forged for many people. The only path that feels normal and everybody knows where the checkpoints are and things like that is this very white, very heteronormative, very cisgender kind of mode of life. And everything else that strays, nobody knows about. So you all, everybody on that path, or everybody diverging from that path, needs to find their own way. And that involves coming of age many times over, just figuring it out. And it certainly happened for me. And it definitely happens for Jack Jr.

Jason Blitman: 28:36

Yeah. Yeah, it was a very interesting read for me, as a person who, I don't know that I would use the term estranged, but there is a pseudo estrangement from my family that has nothing to do with me being gay and it's complicated, and we all have these and yet deeply rooted feelings, and it got me thinking a lot about who. I would turn to, or how I would feel if I needed to turn to these people that I've been estranged from. So it's sent me down a path. It's fine.

Jinwoo Chong: 29:13

I'm sorry for sending you down the

Jason Blitman: 29:14

no, it's fine. It's fine. That's what books are for. That's what books are for. Okay, there, it's, it was so interesting reading this in the book, you're not, you're gonna, you have no idea where I'm going with this, but a friend of mine, just like a week or two ago, was sharing a story with me about his own sort of coming of age. He was on a trip in Japan with this Not quite foreign exchange, but he was staying with a family, and he was, I think, 12, 11 or 12, and the father and son of the family were going to the saunas, and he Didn't want to go with them because he was so worried about being naked in a group of men and what that would, mean for this young closeted 12 year old. And so he didn't go and he like refused to go. And I think in retrospect, sees that as this faux pas of his experience there. There's this great sauna moment in the book that I won't go into and everyone can go read themselves. But do you have any horror stories? Do you have anything that comes to mind?

Jinwoo Chong: 30:27

Yes, the,

Jason Blitman: 30:29

You don't have to share that. I don't need to dust up your trauma too.

Jinwoo Chong: 30:32

oh no, I love it, I love Trump, it makes, I, but it the sauna experience, that kind of thing, It's very widespread in East Asia and that part of the world. The, you see it also, in, in kind of the Nordic countries and Finland and places like that. And in Germany, nudity among people is viewed in such a weird way. It is so politicized and I think it has to do a little bit with the religious background of this country and things like that. But over there in Asia it's just a part of life. People get used to it really easily and are. Sensitized to it from a young age just to be naked around their family, but around their friends co workers go to these bath houses like after work and hang out and things like that. And for I consider myself very American for someone like me. It is hard to wrap my head around that add on Tacking on to that as well, the queer aspect of it the role that bathhouses and those bathing areas have served cities like this and, Queer communities for in the last century, it makes for a lot of like awkwardness, a lot of kind of uncertainty around that everybody goes in with different expectations. And so it was a really interesting, I knew I wanted to do something, set a scene in there because of how messy and strange it would be. My experience with it like going to Korea with my family as. A little boy was the same as, as the friend that you speak of, and for all the same reasons. And I knew that it would be such an interesting way for Jack Jr. to confront all that was, like, making him feel strange about the entire moment. Um, And then conversely, to contrast that with the physical openness of that space. With how how closed he is to himself and his feelings. It felt very metaphorically perfect to, to put a scene like that in there.

Jason Blitman: 32:48

Raw.

Jinwoo Chong: 32:49

Raw, exactly. Okay,

Jason Blitman: 33:00

you talk about the shower scene in Take Me Out, the play, which is very naked. Which leads me to my next question, why do you hate musicals?

Jinwoo Chong: 33:13

I don't hate musicals. This is a quite, this is quite a disturbing trend across the reading media is that the views of the narrator are being increasingly conflated with the views of the author.

Jason Blitman: 33:32

I will, there was something just so specifically said that it just, it felt so deeply personal That's all. That's all.

Jinwoo Chong: 33:44

okay, so I'll to clear the air.

Jason Blitman: 33:47

This is very important to me.

Jinwoo Chong: 33:49

Yes, I have a great love for musical theater. I, I like all the same things that people like. I am not being a spoil sport.

Jason Blitman: 34:01

Plenty of homos don't like musicals, so it's okay.

Jinwoo Chong: 34:06

but yes, I'm glad that I could clear that up with you. That was just, just adding some spice into the book.

Jason Blitman: 34:15

I appreciate it. There was such a reverence for plays, and then very much not for musicals. And it just, again, it felt personal, even though I know you're right. You're 100 percent right. It is fiction. It is not autofiction. You are not a sushi chef. You were not in a coma for two years, but there was something about this hatred of musicals that I latched onto.

Jinwoo Chong: 34:38

Oh, I guess that it just shows like how good the book is. I

Jason Blitman: 34:44

Yes, you're absolutely right. You, I was so deep in the story. Okay. We see a glimpse of Jack Jr. on dates into his romantic life. I'm very curious. And now that I've learned a little bit about you, I feel like I have some guesses, but I don't, I'm not going to say them to you. What is your dating like life? What is your dating style? Once, when you were single what were you, what kind of texter were you? What kind of dates did you go on? I'm like, I have to know.

Jinwoo Chong: 35:14

was fully 100%. On everything very immersed. I would just throw myself into things. And this is because I was a very late bloomer. I came out when I was 25. I told my parents during COVID. It was the first month of COVID because we were all living together at the time. Like it, it was, it's really recent. And so, that coupled with The beginning of getting on Hinge and thinking that way about people coincided with everything being online. And just all of the things that go wrong with, apps and texting and the tech, no, the technology of it all I, yeah, I became I tended to become too invested in everyone and everything way too quickly. And that's probably, it wasn't good, but I think the way that people approach this. When they're like 14 and dating for the first time. That happened to me when I was 25. And so it started late and because of that, I had to do all this catching up. And that's how I got into it.

Jason Blitman: 36:26

It sounds very different from your white walls and clear desk,

Jinwoo Chong: 36:33

Yes, the desk and the walls are clear, but inside here is where it's all messy.

Jason Blitman: 36:39

and that's where the magic happens. Um, I'm not saying anything beyond this. I nearly peed in my pants. When you talked about celery. Moving on.

Jinwoo Chong: 36:58

was a, that was a discussion I had very in depth with my editor

Jason Blitman: 37:02

Really?

Jinwoo Chong: 37:03

that it was it was more detailed in its first form,

Jason Blitman: 37:10

Interesting.

Jinwoo Chong: 37:11

what was going on. And the notes that my editor, Jesse left on one of the drafts was like, let's pull back here. Let's hint, let's make it a little more coy. And make it more of an, if

Jason Blitman: 37:25

Yes.

Jinwoo Chong: 37:25

So I'm glad that you knew and that

Jason Blitman: 37:29

and it definitely felt like Inside Baseball, and yet But you telling me this, I have to say, there's some element of like, why did she silence you? Maybe not. Maybe I'm being dramatic.

Jinwoo Chong: 37:43

I, I really, I agreed with him at the, at that

Jason Blitman: 37:47

Oh, him. Sorry. I don't know. I assumed. Look at me. Assuming.

Jinwoo Chong: 37:53

Assumptions. It's true, but it's okay. Most okay. But tangent, everyone at work sees my name and even sees my picture, which is my face. And they assume I'm a woman and I don't know, I feel like maybe the spelling of my name is really feminine or something like that. So I'm no stranger to that. But why, I didn't feel censored by it. I wanted to, I think the point was made.

Jason Blitman: 38:23

100%.

Jinwoo Chong: 38:24

And I also feel that it wasn't the style of the book to go to point of. There are a number of. I was trying to strike maybe a little bit more of a, like a homier more, a little bit more easy to digest thing than to be so explicit, which is, which I think that reflects who I am as a person too.

Jason Blitman: 38:50

And I will say, and again I felt this way five minutes ago, and I feel this way now that my rage has subsided what I find so special about the book is that It is not this overtly gay, it like, it could be anyone, and I think that's something so special about the book. The story can really be anybody. Yeah. And I'll just leave it at that.

Jinwoo Chong: 39:16

Yes. I have issues with. Younger generations, especially, the need to label everything as And the expectation that you need to adhere to those labels. I feel like that's just a really stressful way to live life. And so the balance I try to strike with everything there with all the characters is that they're commutable. They can change and it doesn't always have to be about categorization because life defies those methods of organization. It's really messy.

Jason Blitman: 39:56

Yeah, and it also relieves you from the pressure of needing to continue to adhere to that definition, whatever that means. I don't want to ask this. To end our conversation

Jinwoo Chong: 40:10

Mhm.

Jason Blitman: 40:11

there is this beautiful moment. I'm, like, trying to be coy for the listeners who have not read it yet a beautiful moment where, let's say, Gene Wilder is referenced.

Jinwoo Chong: 40:25

Yes.

Jason Blitman: 40:26

Is that is that how you live your life? Is there some, is there an optimistic hopefulness about you?

Jinwoo Chong: 40:34

There is now, I have to say this book brought it about and I, I tell this story a lot, but I wrote this, I wrote, I leave it up to you during a really just terrible period of life. I was, I had finished my MFA. I had finished my first novel. It just wasn't selling. Nobody wanted it. We sent it to at least 30 editors. They all turned it down. And I felt like my dreams were just passing me by. I was afraid that, I was afraid that my agent would drop me. I was afraid that I had spent all this money on a writing degree for nothing that I would have to go back to. My day job and just devote myself fully to it and treat writing as a pipe dream again. I also grew to dislike writing and reading itself because of all the disappointment wrapped up in it. And while my first book was being shopped about, I decided to write something new. And I poured every kind of hope and wish that I had about life, about my career, into it. I just, I wrote it to remind myself that Writing is fun, that the heart of it is something that I am good at and enjoy and gives me purpose in life. All things that I had forgotten in this, because publishing a book is so insane and so detrimental to one's creativity. A lot of writers can lose sight of what makes. It's all worth it. And it was happening to me. And so as a result, because of all of this hope that I poured into this book, it is the most joyous thing that I've ever written. It's a great comfort to me to write. I have it on my desk that and

Jason Blitman: 42:37

On your empty desk?

Jinwoo Chong: 42:38

yes, it's the one thing on my desk currently. And I find myself reading portions of it just to. Just to comfort myself and in writing it, I learned that, yeah, I just learned to find the joy again. And so I'm here now, this book comes out in less than two months, and I'm again being drawn back into the stress. I'm not appearing on some list of the anticipated books and I'm letting it ruin my whole day. And, every time that's been happening I've been using the book as I had before to remind myself of the joy. it's something, it needs to happen, it has to happen constantly for me. I can't just have it and then be set forever. It's an act of constant, reminding myself. And that's where I am today. I'm much better. I feel much happier about it. about writing and life than I was, And so yeah, I think to, I think I, I'd certainly, I embody that the little part of Gene Wilder that appears in the book a lot more than I used to.

Jason Blitman: 44:00

Ginu, I leave it up to you by Ginu Chong. Everyone, go get it. If not for anything else, A, I mean the book is wonderful, but it looks so good on a shelf and on a desk. Who could ask for anything more?

Jinwoo Chong: 44:12

I really lucked out. Michael Morris designed the cover at One World.

Jason Blitman: 44:16

Yay, Michael Morris. Thank you so much for being here.

Jinwoo Chong: 44:19

Thank you. This was a blast.

Jason Blitman: 44:21

A blast. Good. All right. I'm going to go have some sushi.

Jinwoo Chong: 44:25

Me too.

Dylan Mulvaney: 44:28

Are you a theater person?

Jason Blitman: 44:29

I am. I was talking to someone this morning and they were like, I see Kathy Rigby above your shoulder. And I was like, oh, that's embarrassing.

Dylan Mulvaney: 44:37

Oh my god, that's so, well it's funny because like that is, I remember, I grew up in San Diego and I think maybe she came to the Civic Center with Peter Pan, but then she's also done many La Mirada versions and

Jason Blitman: 44:50

Oh, yeah.

Dylan Mulvaney: 44:52

we've gotten a lot of, a lot of Kathy. I grew up like, uh, performing in the Grange at the Old Globe for years. It was like the best place ever.

Jason Blitman: 45:01

I saw in your book, when you talk about seeing the production of The Grinch at the Old Globe, and being like, wait a minute, kids can do this? This is magic. I The same thing happened to me with Peter Pan. I was like, wait. Kids are a part of this, and this is like, live and happening in real life? What's going on? And there was a local production, I grew up in Florida, we don't talk about that. There was a local production, um, of Peter Pan, and there were auditions in the paper, and my mom called, and I was five years old, and they were like, he has to be six. And the same thing happened to you!

Dylan Mulvaney: 45:38

I also was like, well, I know you feeders a thing, but like, you get to do with adults, which is like, That just seemed way more, like, accelerated.

Jason Blitman: 45:48

Yeah. Wait, I directed a couple shows for San Diego Junior Theater, did you ever do shows with them?

Dylan Mulvaney: 45:54

I, well, I only did the classes, but, um, I did meet my best friend in life. We were maybe five, six years old. Her name's May. And what's so crazy is we found each other in different chapters of our lives. Like, when we were five, I remember being in a scene with her pushing. She was the mom, I was the kid. Like, she was put, we were pushing a chair like it was a grocery cart and putting things into the cart. And then when we were 15, we did Legally Blonde the musical together as like, you know, youth theatre and

Jason Blitman: 46:21

Uh

Dylan Mulvaney: 46:21

was a crazy mess. And then during the pandemic, um, I reunited with her mom who's a sheepherder and she was the one that, I talk about her in the book actually, Heesh. She's the one who, um, kind of put me in my first dresses and, and helped me find my version of, Femininity early on, which was, um, really fun that you say. So San Diego Junior Theater was a big part of the

Jason Blitman: 46:47

god, I love that. I'm, I'm sort of stuck on you talking about her mom being a sheepherder. Yeah,

Dylan Mulvaney: 46:55

wanted to be, she like during the pandemic after I'd already done Book of Mormon, I was like, I'm going to drive up past San Francisco to this farm. I like spent a week, week sheep herding and I like very strongly kind of just was like, should I just stay and do this for the rest of my life? What I love about her specifically is like, she, you know, found that very late in life and she's already, I mean, she's still doing a little bit of shepherd work, but now she's like, Oh, now I'm going to be like a workout instructor or like, like, I just love people that are constantly reinventing themselves in the wildest ways, but cause like in the second half of your life, you're like, I think I'm gonna start sheep herding is so iconic. I want that for most of us.

Jason Blitman: 47:35

today, what would you pick? What's your sheepherding of 2025?

Dylan Mulvaney: 47:40

Oh, my sheep herding for 2025. Hmm. Maybe like, I can't decide if I want to be a florist or like a landscaper. I just really want to wear like Diane Keaton Annie Hall outfits and like be out in my garden like tending to things and like not having makeup on and like wearing glasses that I don't need. And kind of like, there, there, I want there to be this essence of like, getting my hands dirty, but in ways that actually feel productive and, and not indicative of me on the internet.

Jason Blitman: 48:12

Love. Obsessed.

Dylan Mulvaney: 48:14

right now? What's your

Jason Blitman: 48:16

Oh, that's such a good question. Well, I was working in theater and arts and culture producing, and now I host a book podcast, so I guess it's book podcasting. Like,

Dylan Mulvaney: 48:25

I mean, it's the theater to book pipeline that I think it's inevitable. Um,

Jason Blitman: 48:31

I know, it's very true. but I was also, I was the casting director at TheatreWorksUSA for a while. I'm sure

Dylan Mulvaney: 48:37

I feel like after college, maybe I had like auditioned for one of those tours or something, but, um, I guess we probably, I might, it was me singing giants in the sky for you, Jason.

Jason Blitman: 48:49

Oh my god, obsessed. I know, I'm sure I was at your showcase. I'm sure you auditioned. Love. I love, I love, I love. I have to know. You are my guest gay reader today. What are you reading, Dylan? Before we talk about your book.

Dylan Mulvaney: 49:03

Okay. I am reading so many things, but also the one, like something that really sparked joy recently, I got to read, Jonathan Van Ness's new book, that is coming out with, um, julie Murphy, um, who wrote Jumplin right? I, I think that that's the, the tie there. Um, but, but it was so crazy because I had asked Jonathan for a quote for the book, a blurb. And then having, like, your idol, your, that now turned friend ask for a blurb from me, I, I've never been more excited. and, you know, I don't know if everyone who learns books always necessarily reads it or not, but I 1000 percent read that early manuscript in a way that made me just so happy and I can't wait for the world to get to get their hands on it. And I also, oh, I've been reading some of the comments. I try not to, but they're most eventually know that I, I, I, I kind of nailed it because like, I now have a feature, at least on Instagram, where if someone comments, they have to at least follow me. And so there is a little bit of satisfaction when I see a bad comment, knowing that they followed me to leave that, and traditionally usually keep following me. It's just, that feels a little good.

Jason Blitman: 50:23

It was like extra work for them. It's like entrapment.

Dylan Mulvaney: 50:26

Period.

Jason Blitman: 50:27

Okay, I love that you read this book, Let Them Stare, by Jonathan Van Ness and Julie Murphy. I'm so

Dylan Mulvaney: 50:34

stare. There we go. Let them stare.

Jason Blitman: 50:35

Okay, now tell me, you have your own book coming out, Paper Doll.

Dylan Mulvaney: 50:39

Honey, I can't believe it. I am so It's crazy. I'm so proud of it, but I'm also simultaneously scared as heck because I think, I see myself as one thing, which is very much a theater girl. I think the world sees me as this like trans TikToker. And now I'm asking them to see me as an author and, and I think, you know, many people haven't been exposed to my writing necessarily, even though I've done it my whole life, I've journaled almost every day, from like, since my teen years, but I, I'm really happy to now have a place off the internet where I can share things with hopefully the good people that deserve it, and not just like, The general population, um, and hopefully some good will come from it, because I think a lot of it surrounds really tricky situations that I found myself in that I wouldn't want someone else to have to go through if they don't have to. So, uh, I, I'm, I'm hoping that it isn't a hard read, but hopefully an easy one that that folks. get something from or at least can have a laugh. I love a comedy. I've bread and butter favorite things. and so I, I wanted to make sure that yes, there's vulnerability in there and yes, I divulge a lot, but I wanted there to be some laughs.

Jason Blitman: 52:01

I mean, honestly, the book is so, so, so funny. I I haven't read it cover to cover, but I've been able to pick it up in pieces, and it is, I can't believe how much I've been laughing. You're funny!

Dylan Mulvaney: 52:15

my god, thank you! I, I get scared to, like, especially make jokes around transness because I think so often they get taken out of context by the media, but this felt like a, a safer way to do so, and, and like, when I'm with my friends, I am a I'm very dark in my humor, like I'm always kind of going there, and, and I don't really get to do that with people online, so, like, I think people will be surprised by, like, there's, as much of like, I am a Charlotte in the streets, I think I'm more of like a Samantha on the pages.

Jason Blitman: 52:50

Honestly, there was one thing that offended me reading the book, and that is your love of dominoes.

Dylan Mulvaney: 52:56

No, really? Oh my god, I I am like, I probably have it at least once or twice a week. but it's like, it's, it's sort of become, I think, my body's version of, um, like a, like a safety blanket. Like, I think some people have from their childhood, like a little piece of cloth that still exists that they never wash. And like, I have a tie to pizza store chain that most people see as lesser than. When it is my everything,

Jason Blitman: 53:31

In full disclosure, I made a bit of a stink about it recently at an event that I was producing because someone else ordered, ordered Domino's instead of something instead of regular, regular pizza instead of like local pizza.

Dylan Mulvaney: 53:45

you are the

Jason Blitman: 53:46

And I, I am the problem. It is totally me. But I tasted it and I was like, you know what? It's solid.

Dylan Mulvaney: 53:55

It's the deep dish version that everybody really needs to be targeting because that is the, that's the one that it's so good. It's well, I think targeting is the wrong word. I think they need to, to, if they're going to give it a try again, it needs to be the deep dish version because it's not actual deep dish, but it's a little, there's, there's a little more give there. Yes. I like more carbs. Um, more, more, more is more in generally in my world.

Jason Blitman: 54:24

Yeah. I love that. Okay. Um, I was with our mutual friend Jedediah Jenkins at the time, and he was the one who was like, You gotta give in. The Domino's is good.

Dylan Mulvaney: 54:36

Oh my God. That, that's so crazy. I just, um, my friend is staying with me right now and like showed me a book that they had bought, you know, yesterday to start reading. And I was like, wait, no, I want you to read this one. And I pulled Jedediah's book off the shelf to shake the sleeping self because that I read it in my early twenties. And my aunt is like a huge fan of theirs and it like completely changed the way, not only that I thought about writing, but also faith and queerness and nature. And like, what's so embarrassing is that, I don't know if you know, when someone follows you on Instagram, any video or any message that you've sent to them, like goes to the top. So I was Jedediah's fan and I was like DMing him like like I'm obsessed with you. You're amazing I love this book and and then he followed me like maybe two years ago And so all those messages got pushed to the top and I was like, this is so sweet I fucking love you. And I'm like, no I was dying cringing and then so after that I had to think about all the people that I had sent embarrassing like fan messages to and needed to make sure to unsend them So that if and when they follow me, that those wouldn't get pushed to the top again. Um, but, Jedediah is like, I think LA is tricky with finding community. And like, he is someone that is really the king of like bringing people together. He has the cutest fire pit. I've met so many amazing people through him. He got me, he took me camping last year in the desert. I mean,

Jason Blitman: 56:15

There's only one person to go camping with.

Dylan Mulvaney: 56:18

And it's your favorite author. Like, like, like, don't accept anything less than going camping with your favorite author. Turn friend.

Jason Blitman: 56:26

There's a similarity between the two of you that I'm just now realizing. He is just like, forever joyful? And I don't, forever joyful sounds like, uh, like you're not allowed to ever not be full of joy. But he always, joy is first for him. And I feel like joy, you present as joy being first for you.

Dylan Mulvaney: 56:45

Oh, a thousand. I mean, I, I also think there's an, and it's like a, an energy of innocence to him still, um, that makes him feel like way younger because in, in a, in a good way. Because you're like, oh my god, like you have this energy, you have this passion, you have this desire to connect and to socialize in ways that often, I think, can get lost as we age. And I, it, it, that is what puts me in a direct sort of Jedediah Jenkins, I will take it.

Jason Blitman: 57:22

Love. Okay, so you've been journaling for a long time. That was your journey to writing?

Dylan Mulvaney: 57:29

That was, yeah, I mean that was, and I think when I even got offered the book, it was my first. Kind of idea of like, oh, I don't, you know, I didn't go to school necessarily for this. So what, what's something that I feel confident enough in when it comes to writing that feels like shareable and it was those journal entries and then one spear gate happened, everything kind of shifted and I was like, there's more to this story, but it wasn't in journal format. And that's when I started writing these different essays that ended up going in between the entries of the book. And so. It's so messy, but I think it's really reflective of, you know, being a 20 something in the spotlight and not fully knowing every essence of who you are, but you have pretty clear ideas, and, um, I, I really wanted to make sure that it didn't feel like a memoir that felt, like, all encompassing, or like this was, It's the only, you know, thing I would ever write or, you know, it just, um,

Jason Blitman: 58:36

No, it feels like, it feels like your book right now. And then there will be another one, and then there will be another one after that. And I'm only ever going to pronounce memoir like that from now

Dylan Mulvaney: 58:45

Memoir. I get so, I'm like memoir. I get so nervous to say that word

Jason Blitman: 58:53

Uh, mine is, uh, uh, maternity leave. I have a very hard time with maternity leave.

Dylan Mulvaney: 59:01

maternity

Jason Blitman: 59:03

Yeah, it's interesting. It's the er, it's that memoir. Anyway, we both went to theater school.

Dylan Mulvaney: 59:10

period.

Jason Blitman: 59:12

There's so many things to talk to you about, but there's one thing in particular in the book that, uh, again, this gives nothing away if not sharing your Uh, deep humor, your love of musicals, and how honest you get in the book, but you compare the concept of never orgasming again to a flightless, defying gravity. And I was like, this resonates? I understand what she's saying. This is insane.

Dylan Mulvaney: 59:42

I was like, cause you know, I'm all about trying to make comparisons. Um, and, and I was like, I was like, what, cause like what makes me feel quite as alive as. Like having an incredible sexual experience, even if it's with myself. And I was like, that's defying gravity on stage and mind you, I wrote, I wrote that before the movie was even, I knew what that was going to be. And so I do love that, you know, now for those who read it, that aren't theater goers, they have some connection to Elphaba taking flight. Um, but really it's the whole goal for this book, I guess, was to bring like. theatrical niche references to the masses, if you will.

Jason Blitman: 1:00:27

Totally. And for the, for the layperson, there is a whole plan in place if there is a no fly defying gravity. Like, if the little mechanism doesn't work, then the ensemble is supposed to slowly lay down on their back and pretend as though Elphaba is flying.

Dylan Mulvaney: 1:00:45

And now that I've, you know, experienced sexual malfunction, I'm actually way more excited to go see a production of Wicked on stage and to see a no fly show, because I know at the end of the day, we're still going to be okay.

Jason Blitman: 1:00:59

It's still gonna be good. It is still gonna be good. Amen. Listen. Oh my god, I'm obsessed.

Dylan Mulvaney: 1:01:06

Oh

Jason Blitman: 1:01:07

Um, Dylan, you have a podcast coming out. You have, like, do you get time? Do you sleep?

Dylan Mulvaney: 1:01:12

No, actually that's a big problem. I, I'm a yes woman. I say yes to pretty much everything. It's starting to catch up with me and in bad ways, because what I have realized is like, I like to show up a hundred percent of myself to everything I do. And it can be frustrating when you realize you take it on too much and you're like, Oh, but, but what I can promise is that like, when I was writing this book, that was a hundred percent of me, like that was it. I, I think it still is. Maybe one of the most important things I've ever done and ever will do is to have a physical manifestation of this time of my life. Um, and I think that, you know, whether it's my show that I'm planning to do at some theater in, in New York, you know, potentially this year that I would love to have you come see. But, um, I, I want to be able to show up as, as a, as a complete all in type person. Um, and so that is what's tricky about like the multi hyphenate of it is like.

Jason Blitman: 1:02:12

Mm hmm.

Dylan Mulvaney: 1:02:14

if, if I am going to, if I'm going to take on seven different job titles, how do those get, you know, divvied up?

Jason Blitman: 1:02:22

Yeah. Okay. So tell me about podcast host. When, when, when do the people get to experience that?

Dylan Mulvaney: 1:02:28

That would be, it's looking like the end of March. It's, I've been working on this for like, same thing with the book actually, similar timeline of almost like two or three years. Where, you know, that's what's crazy about the difference between social media. I can make a video, I can put it up in the same day, I can have a million people see it, and then the next day it's kind of like, it didn't even happen. With these things, they take so long, but I'm hoping that the rewards That are reaped end up being like better, you know, than, than just what a like and a comment feels like on a video, but it is scary.

Jason Blitman: 1:03:05

I got a sneak peek at some of your initial guests and holy moly. And I don't ever say this, but I'm gagged. I'm

Dylan Mulvaney: 1:03:17

gay friends. I've got like cultural, you have, I saw that too on your list where I was like, Oh yeah, you've gotten some really amazing folks. And I think that so often, you know, they say you are a reflection of who you're surrounded with. I'm like, sometimes the guests that you have on your podcasts are a reflection of who you have. So I feel really. I'm so happy that I get to be on yours today.

Jason Blitman: 1:03:39

I'm so honored. I'm so honored. What a joy. Wait, you also have this All Story Book Club. I'm

Dylan Mulvaney: 1:03:45

Oh my God, honey, the Dilmovany book club. What? That? Okay. I'll tell you this. I'm someone like when I was becoming a yoga, like when I wanted to do yoga, I became a yoga instructor because I knew I needed what accountability and I needed to become a master at whatever the thing was. So if I'm going to be a writer, I'm going to write a book if I'm going to have a, you know, if I'm going to be a reader, I'm going to have a book club because now, but now same kind of with you though, with this podcast, like now you have, you have to read books. It forces you.

Jason Blitman: 1:04:17

we are the same person in that way.

Dylan Mulvaney: 1:04:20

that. Like now it's like, I have home. We need homework.

Jason Blitman: 1:04:24

I know,

Dylan Mulvaney: 1:04:25

need homework.

Jason Blitman: 1:04:26

I know. I said to my husband, I was like, okay, I'm enjoying reading, but I need to take it to the next level. I know, I'll start a book podcast. What? I know. Um, so tell me about this All Story Book Club.

Dylan Mulvaney: 1:04:40

the third March pick is Paper Doll Baby because I was like, Well, if, if you're going to have a book club, I'm going to do my own book because why not? Um,

Jason Blitman: 1:04:51

the perks of having a book club.

Dylan Mulvaney: 1:04:53

yes, I want it to be easy reads. I want it to be emphasis on feminine, on camp, on, you know, trying to better ourselves and become more empathetic people. Um, but I, I think like there isn't, you know, it's, it's not, uh, It's definitely not one thing. I don't think of myself as one thing. The book club's not one thing, but I do think each book will be a step to better understanding me in the long run for, for whoever joins, if they're interested in that.

Jason Blitman: 1:05:25

Oh, that's really special. I love that. Um, and I'm obsessed with like, suddenly how books are a major thing in your orbit right now. So, we love to see it.

Dylan Mulvaney: 1:05:35

There, I mean, I have like a stack of hundreds of mine sitting right there. And then what is crazy too is now, I'm sure this happens to YouTube, people want to send you their books, which is like epic, but then you're like, oh, we've got to find some space. You know, so, um, that, it's, it's so cool. I, I, I love, I, I, I'm getting a little bit more into book talk. Like, I'm noticing my For You page is like starting to catch up to that.

Jason Blitman: 1:06:00

listen, okay! Before I let you go, this is Gay's Reading, you're the guest gay reader. Is there anything that you're, that you're reading that you need to get off of your chest? When the world is crumbling down around us, it's hard to, like, be annoyed by the leaky faucet. You know what I mean? But, like, now's your time to complain about the leaky faucet.

Dylan Mulvaney: 1:06:21

I think the leaky faucet for me in regards to books is like the heaviness when I'm traveling. Because I, I love to, I'm someone, if I'm going on a plane, I like to bring three books with me, and obviously, like, sometimes I'll just have like a tote, and that, honey, that's getting heavy, so, um, and I'm not someone that loves to read from a screen, I support screen readers, but that, I'm not your girl, um, I

Jason Blitman: 1:06:43

physical copy person too.

Dylan Mulvaney: 1:06:45

yes, I think, um, I have grievances with this industry right now for not, allowing for more trans storytelling. I feel really lucky that this book cut through, but we need more of it. We need fiction. We need romance. We need a trans 50 shades of gray, um, that extends to TV and film as well. And I have grievances who are with anyone trying to make anyone else's life more difficult than it needs to be because that's how it feels for, you know, our community right now. And, um, I want to provide easy reads I want, for it to be an ease to life that I, I think we should allow ourselves and, I, I just, I feel really lucky and happy.

Jason Blitman: 1:07:32

I love

Dylan Mulvaney: 1:07:33

What's your happy scale? One to ten right now.

Jason Blitman: 1:07:36

My happy scale? Mmm, mmm, mmm. Seven and a half?

Dylan Mulvaney: 1:07:39

Okay.

Jason Blitman: 1:07:40

What's your happy scale?

Dylan Mulvaney: 1:07:42

I think I'm also a seven and a half.

Jason Blitman: 1:07:45

Okay.

Dylan Mulvaney: 1:07:46

You brought it up. I'm not going to lie. I was at like a six, maybe at like 9 a. m. this morning.

Jason Blitman: 1:07:51

What?

Dylan Mulvaney: 1:07:53

So there's an effect here. Thank you, babe.

Jason Blitman: 1:07:58

I can't wait to read some books with you. Have a wonderful rest of your day. Thank you for being here, Dylan.

Dylan Mulvaney: 1:08:02

Will you send anytime that you have like something that you really love that I need to know about for books? Will you send it to me? Can we DM?

Jason Blitman: 1:08:09

100%.

Dylan Mulvaney: 1:08:10

I cannot wait. Okay. Bye everyone.

Jason Blitman: 1:08:13

Okay, bye.

1:08:13

Dylan, thank you so much for being here. Jinwoo, thank you so much. Make sure to check out their books available now thanks for listening to Gay's Reading. And I will see you next week. Bye.