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Hello. I am Jason Blitman, the host of Gay's Reading, and welcome to the very first episode of a brand new gays reading series called Spill the Tea. Today we are spilling the Tea on Penguin classics. I am so thrilled to be joined by the VP and publisher of Penguin Classics, to talk to me all about what makes a classic, a classic, what makes a penguin classic, and we really get into the nitty gritty and maybe even play a game of screw Mary kill at the end. So make sure to stick around to check that out. Also important to know that a ton of stuff comes up and a bunch of the things that I say are gonna be in the show notes are in fact in the show notes. So take a look at those, including a list of perhaps underrepresented classics that you may have never heard of before, and that was sort of the intention behind this list that you'll see in the show notes. If you do not already follow gays reading, you should do that over on Instagram. We are at gay's reading. We're also over on Blue Sky, but on Instagram we do a lot of things like giveaways, uh, among other things. So make sure to check that out and like, and subscribe wherever you get your podcast. So you'll be the first to know when a new episode drops. And I am known to drop an episode at random, so there's a new gays reading Substack. The link to that can be found in the show notes, but also in the link tree on Instagram. And today's post is more details from today's conversation. So you could find that over on the gays reading Substack. Make sure to subscribe there. There's tons of stuff you can access with the free subscription. Um, but also if you are looking to support an indie podcast, you could certainly do the paid subscription. And there's additional fun stuff for the folks over on the Substack. Also, if you are interested in supporting an indie podcast, you can certainly always. Leave a five star review wherever you get your podcast. That is super duper helpful and makes it, uh, a little bit more possible for me to continue doing something like this. I'm so excited for this new series, spill The Tea. The plan is for it to happen semi-monthly, so about two times a month. We'll take a break during Pride because there's a ton of fabulous pride programming that's going on. I cannot wait for you to check all of that out. There are so many exciting author conversations and so many fantastic. Spill the tea episodes that have already been recorded and I cannot wait to share them with you. So we've got stuff in the link tree. We've got stuff in the show notes. Make sure to check out the substack. Anyway, enough babbling on for me. Thank you all so much for being here and enjoy my conversation with Elda Rotor

Jason Blitman: 2:54

I am so happy to be here with you.

Elda Rotor: 2:56

I'm happy to be here with you.

Jason Blitman: 2:58

I have the delightful Elder Rotor. Rotor like rhetorical.

Elda Rotor: 3:05

Rhetorical like rhetorical.

Jason Blitman: 3:06

The Vice President and Publisher of Penguin Classics. Welcome to Gay's Reading!

Elda Rotor: 3:12

Thank you for having me. I'm very happy to be here.

Jason Blitman: 3:15

VP and Publisher sounds very important.

Elda Rotor: 3:20

We try our best. We try. I go, I answer to my liege and queen also.

Jason Blitman: 3:26

Mmm, mmm, Queen Elda. That sounds like a, like a Disney character.

Elda Rotor: 3:32

Oh, I'd love that. That would be great.

Jason Blitman: 3:34

Let's write to someone.

Elda Rotor: 3:35

Yes. And then Lin Manuel has to make me a song so I can cry in the theater.

Jason Blitman: 3:40

Yes. Are you a singer? Can you sing along to the song?

Elda Rotor: 3:44

I mean, I can do a little karaoke, you know. My people, we're known to,

Jason Blitman: 3:49

Filipino. Yes.

Elda Rotor: 3:51

win some awards. And then, you know, casual students, they can belt out Mariah, you know, as I see on YouTube. But I am not that level, but I can hum a tune, perhaps.

Jason Blitman: 4:05

Okay. This is not on my list of things to talk to you about today, but what is your go to karaoke song?

Elda Rotor: 4:12

Oh gosh. I dreamed a dream. I know. I shouldn't. But you know, sometimes you have that liquid courage

Jason Blitman: 4:18

I was not expecting that. I'm thrilled. We have a musical theater girl on Gaze Reading today!

Elda Rotor: 4:25

Also because it's slow and everyone has to like listen to you. Like now everybody sit

Jason Blitman: 4:30

Oh, you are that person at

Elda Rotor: 4:32

Yeah, yeah. I am, I am. And then I get a little bit clamped and everyone's just like, Okay, Elder, we're gonna do Girls Just Wanna Have Fun now. I'm like, okay.

Jason Blitman: 4:41

I mean, that's why you're at karaoke. You're the buzzkill. That's so fun. I would sit and listen to you, though.

Elda Rotor: 4:48

Thank you, thank

Jason Blitman: 4:49

Um, oh my god, so fun. Okay, what does being the VP and publisher of Penguin Classics mean?

Elda Rotor: 4:58

Okay, so, that basically means that I oversee the U. S. program for Penguin Classics in the United States. And that means that I work with wonderful people, our Classics editorial team, John Siciliano, Gabriel Rivera, Emma Duller. Work on, think about, work on classics that have never been part of Penguin Classics before. We work on new editions of titles that we already have on our backlist, which has like 2, 500 plus titles on it. And we import great titles from our sisters across the pond from Penguin UK. And the whole combination is I basically figure out what we publish over the year, and I support several estates, uh, books that people have loved for generations, and think about new ways of publishing and promoting them. So it's a, it's a lot of fun parts to the job.

Jason Blitman: 5:52

Yeah, I, uh, say a lot on Case Reading that I'm a late in life reader, and I think some of it, and I mean this with no offense, but some of it is because classics were scary to me, and sort of felt like work. Um, uh, I very, I famously, and by famously I mean, Amongst me and my husband, I didn't, my fun story is in high school, I didn't finish reading The Hobbit in time for the test, and so the night before I went to Blockbuster Video to rent the movie, and they didn't have any copies left, because of course there were other people like me, so I didn't know how The Hobbit ended when I took the test. Um, that is, it is classic, classic trauma.

Elda Rotor: 6:44

I can imagine. I can imagine. How did you do on the test? You came out just

Jason Blitman: 6:48

I'm sure I did terrible. I'm sure I did a terrible job. Uh, similarly, I did finish reading To Kill a Mockingbird, but I also rented that movie, cause, and that movie is so

Elda Rotor: 6:58

Oh, yeah, could be studied easily,

Jason Blitman: 7:01

Yes. when I think of classic, I think of dusty and trauma and, um, And when I say dusty, I think I literally mean The copies from school were dusty.

Elda Rotor: 7:16

Oh yes. The broken spines.

Jason Blitman: 7:19

smelled very specific. Whose name was written in the cover? Who else, whose like brother and sister had it in the previous years?

Elda Rotor: 7:28

Hoping, hoping that previous students who wrote in it were smart.

Jason Blitman: 7:32

you're right.

Elda Rotor: 7:33

Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 7:34

um, So you in describing your job, you say that part of what you do is, is. Decide what books to publish that have never been a part of Penguin Classics before.

Elda Rotor: 7:48

Yes.

Jason Blitman: 7:49

How do we get there? I think the big like, my big question of the day is like, what makes a Penguin Classic a classic?

Elda Rotor: 7:54

know, right? That's just like, that is, that is the, uh, the question that I get a lot. And it, I think that my answer to it is similar every day, but then it's, there's a nuance here and there. And I'd say the main thing is that it's about the relationship you have with something created from the past and that like any relationship, right? It has its ups and downs. It can change, it can evolve, and we're primarily helping you develop that tie with something written in the past. And a classic is Well, one of the options I'd say is, is a work that keeps coming up, different generations bring it up. They could love it, they could interpret it one way, the next generation interprets it a whole different way, but that conversation keeps going. I think the scariest thing is when, um, a writer and their work are no longer read. Like, it's our job to see, what do people think of this book now? Like, we're not coming to it with one opinion, but we're offering authoritative editions that are well produced, hopefully beautifully published, and we're telling you, what do you think today about this book that was written in the 1930s or, you know, the 19th century or, you know, 25 years ago, and what a reader thinks, it matters, no matter who that reader is.

Jason Blitman: 9:14

Mm. Okay, to go back for one second, you said the past. What does that mean to you in the context of classics? Cause for me like, the past, to me, could be yesterday.

Elda Rotor: 9:26

Right. Oh, interesting. So I'd say the youngest classics that we would put into Penguin Classics are, would have their 15th or 20th anniversary of, from the time it was first published. But that, that's pretty, those are our babies. Those are totally our babies. Um, and it goes way, way back to, you know, ye olde times, ancient times. You know,

Jason Blitman: 9:50

And that's old with an E at the end.

Elda Rotor: 9:52

course. Yes. Um, you know, and so I think that that would be it. If something was published, and you know, the scary thing now is that things in the 80s are actually, like, let's think about that. Like, what, what was published in the 80s? And I'm open to thinking about. You know, for myself, I remember when something was just published, and now we're going to put it in Penguin Classics, and I'm like, this makes sense. There have been several years, and there have been different ways of looking at this book, and how, how are people coming to it now? So.

Jason Blitman: 10:27

Are there I'm sort of projecting this onto you, but it sounds like there's not a specific thing. You're not like, oh, it has to be before this date, or it has to have this specific quality, or it has to have been talked about every year for the last 15 years, right? You're not sort of hitting a checklist. It's more about a bigger picture conversation about individual titles. Am I hearing that correctly?

Elda Rotor: 10:58

Yes. Well, I like to say that I like to think of Penguin Classics as a verb, right? So it's like an action.

Jason Blitman: 11:04

Oh, cool.

Elda Rotor: 11:05

like your responsibility to engage with something created in the past. There are people that feel very strongly about what a canon is, you know, the canonical text or literature from the canon. It definitely has that exclusive, restricted quality, and somewhat elitist. And, um, there's certainly books that we publish that would have been included in what people historically called the canon. But I do believe that the canon is evolving and ever changing because time moves and life moves on. So, really what people thought was the canon at the beginning of Penguin Classics just happens to be Books before that time, that that person was in the publisher's chair, and now there's just more time has evolved. Um, but I also say that with Penguin Classics, we do think about books that we see of importance to students. and that teachers are looking for, like really good editions of, then we really pay attention to what the teachers are saying. You know, they, it's their job to draw these texts to students and have young people engage with them. So we want to provide books that are interesting for classrooms, but we also want to provide books that are, Going to make general readers go hmm. This reminds me of this like thing. I'm streaming. Why do they have the same themes? Or this is making me feel less alone, and I can't believe this was written in 1920 and that you know there's the emotion behind that connection

Jason Blitman: 12:43

Do you have some specific contemporary examples of that?

Elda Rotor: 12:48

Let's see. I think there's some in a perennial classics that are always It's brought up, I would say, not only in my Google alerts, but just in conversations with regular people. So, you know, Lord of the Flies by William Goulding. Whether or not you've read the book, there's always time for you to read it, but everyone has a sense of what that theme is, is what happens when society breaks down. When the adults are, when the adults are not on the island and it's just the kids, and you know, what do they turn to, how do they distinguish, you know. Good from bad and how do they take care of each other the most vulnerable of them who comes up as a leader? Who's a good leader? Who's a bad leader? And and what do you do the little ones in the in Lord of the Flies? I think is the scariest part is the people that are just the general public, you know So that's one I'd say Yeah,

Jason Blitman: 13:43

that not make you lose sleep at night?

Elda Rotor: 13:44

I know it's a little bit disturbing. It's a tiny bit disturbing. I would say that um, when I read Lord of the Flies I read it when I was like, I've maybe eighth grader or high school was one of the first times I understood what it was like to learn empathy from a book because I related to Piggy, you know, I Definitely was not the athletic type. I still am not I would be lost if my glasses were broken. Um, and like, you know, I think people do assess, like, where, who would they be in Lord of the Flies? How would they fare when society breaks down and you're isolated on an island with no adults around? Um, so there's that, and then there are, like, epics like East of Eden, um, which we're really excited about. We, you know, we know that there's a A new limited series that's going to be streaming, released by the end of this year or early next year. And that's one of my favorite books by John Steinbeck. Um,

Jason Blitman: 14:44

East of Eden is one of my husband's favorite books and before I really started reading He wanted me to read it. I started it and I was like, oh, this is above my reading level right now So I can't process it. Um, but then when I became more of a reader, I was like, okay It's time for East of Eden. Let me do it and It took me a minute to read, because it's, she's dense, um, and I, and the writing is so beautiful, and each sentence is really like a full meal. And it's interesting, something that came up in my conversation after reading it was sort of the idea of a, of a big book being about such sort of specific universal themes. that are intimate without being as sprawling as the book, as a book of that length would be contemporarily.

Elda Rotor: 15:38

Mm hmm.

Jason Blitman: 15:39

I think what I'm trying to say is, at the time that it was written, there wasn't a lot to do. And so John Steinbeck could write a long book about small things that covered big ideas. And that, to me, was sort of what the book was about, and in turn, or what the book did for me. Um. And I think I didn't love it as much as I might have at a different time in my life, uh, but it's very, it's interesting to sort of see, to think about context, and when a book was written, and what was happening in the world, and what are people getting from this, and all of that.

Elda Rotor: 16:08

I, I have a suggestion in terms of big, big books that might be intimidating to people. Um, I haven't read every big book in the world. Lord knows there's too many other distractions and entertainments out there.

Jason Blitman: 16:20

Lord of the Flies knows. Mmm.

Elda Rotor: 16:27

big meal with, um, and then just thinking about that one thing that you liked from that night. It could have been just a little bit of bite of an appetizer, it could have been the dessert, but the same thing with a classic. It's, you know, you don't 100 percent have to say every page was meaningful to me, but if it, if you came away with a little bit of insight into something in your life. Because you saw it in a character or in an exchange between two characters and you felt like, oh gosh, they see me. This makes sense. That's all we're asking for. And I think, honestly, that's all the writer's asking for is that one connection that's going to carry you. Um, yeah, I think that that's the hope for all the books that we publish is that there's a sense of connection, however small, but it might be memorable.

Jason Blitman: 17:14

Mm hmm. Well, and also, I think a book like that, classics I think in general, are asking you to just pause or take a breath, right? Books these days, I think, are designed to be bingeable. TV shows are designed to be bingeable, you know? Um, I similarly had an issue when we watched Six Feet Under, which again, my husband loved. And for me, I think, it was just such a slow burn. That. My body is conditioned to a different kind of storytelling.

Elda Rotor: 17:51

Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 17:52

And so I think that was a similar experience with East of Eden. It is, the art is asking you to just take a breath and sort of savor the meal. Even if you don't love the whole meal, it's designed to savor.

Elda Rotor: 18:08

And then, and you know what? Put it down. If you're getting sleepy, put it down. Unless you reach for a pangolin classic in order to sleep, I am not offended. I am not offended. I have heard that about Proust. Some people, some people love to say that they finished it. Some people love to tell me that they had a great nap after they picked, picked it up. Um, so yeah. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 18:32

you talk about, part of the work being keeping, keeping the conversation going, keeping the books alive, keeping the stories alive. Have you experienced slash. What have you done when you've encountered maybe problematic stories, problematic authors, things that are sort of, that, that don't really quote unquote work today?

Elda Rotor: 18:56

Well, that's why we like to invite. Scholars and literary experts to do introductions for us. Um, and because they're familiar with the work and they also have that job of, a lot of them, of talking to young people about it. Now, young people are wise and they're gonna, they're gonna catch, they're gonna catch something. And you'll have to explain yourself. So, a lot of the authors that we work with who write the intros are professors who Know, know the conflicts, know the questions about character, know the questions about language. And I think the most important thing for them to do is give context. You know, so the context is in our introductions, the context is in our forwards. We also do this great thing called Suggestions for Further Exploration, which, you know, after you finish the book you can go, you know, watch that movie that our contributor has mentioned you should watch, or maybe listen to an album that might relate to the time period, or, you know, some non fiction or some journalism that will help give you more context. But I really do feel that it's important because we have so many banned books on our wonderful list To let the books speak for themselves and that engagement with them that conversation. It can be angry It could be angry like, you know, Christmas time with some older relatives Around the dinner table and we're like, alright, here we go. We're gonna talk about this now

Jason Blitman: 20:25

Uh huh.

Elda Rotor: 20:26

but it's better to engage and argue right and and share your point of view then Then not read it or not engage.

Jason Blitman: 20:34

Right. You know, it's so interesting. Of course, like, that's the intention of an introduction or a foreword, is to contextualize. And I, because this is a safe space, I'm going to come out and say it, um, when I was interviewing Susan Rieger, she talked about reading Moby Dick three times, and I was like, okay, A, that's a lot. It must be good if she's willing to pick it up three times. Um, and I was recently talking to a friend at a book festival that I produce and he was talking about queer themes in Moby Dick and I was like, oh, I didn't really know that that was a thing. So I went and I bought my Penguin Classic copy of Moby Dick. Um, and I say this is a safe space because I started reading it and I skipped the introduction.

Elda Rotor: 21:15

That's fine.

Jason Blitman: 21:16

I know I need to go back. I need, I need the context. That's important.

Elda Rotor: 21:20

Yes.

Jason Blitman: 21:20

I didn't even think about it.

Elda Rotor: 21:22

You can read it later. You can read it later. You know. Some people do like some, some definitely teachers like to jump right into the first chapter. And then the context comes later.

Jason Blitman: 21:33

yeah, yeah. I mean, even for me, like, when I read a new book, I don't even like to really read descriptions. I sort of just go right in and, and make, and have experiences for myself. But I don't know. It's, there's a reason why the context is there. So it'll be good to go back and reflect. I've not gotten very far in Moby Dick, just to say.

Elda Rotor: 21:53

I haven't finished it.

Jason Blitman: 21:55

But I look forward to it. Okay, you just said that, and I know when we've talked before, you said you've not read every classic, obviously. How could you? It would be impossible. But there are some that you have heard are really good. What are some of those that are, like, perhaps on your shelf that you look forward to reading one day?

Elda Rotor: 22:15

well, I, you know, Middlemarch, that's the one that a lot of people who I admire have read, have read more than once. And I'm like, wow, okay, I will try again. Um, and I, I had tried it, you know, I, what I have to say though, Sometimes when you think you're ready to meet a classic, that classic isn't ready to meet you in your life. Um, and maybe it'll be more, um, it'll click when you're older, or maybe it clicked only when you were younger. Um, I heard that, you know, Karamax on the road, write a bible for the youth. I thought I wanted to listen to jazz and cross country, and, and make bad decisions with boyfriends and stuff, but I thought I loved it when I was young, and then I read it when I was older, and all I could think of was why aren't they all getting jobs? I was like, judgmental

Jason Blitman: 23:09

Where are the parents?

Elda Rotor: 23:10

I don't understand, like, don't they have to go back to work sometime? Like,

Jason Blitman: 23:15

How are they paying for

Elda Rotor: 23:16

yes, there are so many Airbnbs during this journey, like, who is, who is paying, paying for this? But, you know, people heard it's really good, and it is really good at some time of your life, or maybe it doesn't click with other people. Um. Yeah, the Odyssey is also one that what people like to just like just name drop the Odyssey. Of course the Odyssey Um, I say that's that's one where I think bits and pieces you can take from it Then you can get that joke that someone mentions during a dinner party. You're like, oh I get that now, but I'm I'm waiting for the Christopher Nolan adaptation of the Odyssey. I think that's gonna Pair nicely with the Penguin Classic in the future. But it's okay if you haven't read the whole thing. And, or if it's okay if it's taken more than a year, Elda, to read the Odyssey. Because you keep putting it down because something else is streaming that you want to watch. Yeah,

Jason Blitman: 24:05

Is that your, uh, 9th grade, uh, English teacher saying that to you?

Elda Rotor: 24:09

yes, absolutely. It's okay.

Jason Blitman: 24:13

Oh, what was I just gonna say? Mm, mm, mm, mm. Oh, when I was in high school, for extra credit, you could memorize the prologue of the Odyssey and recite it in class.

Elda Rotor: 24:25

Oh, that's so great.

Jason Blitman: 24:27

and I did that. I'm sure if I, I'm sure, if I, like, got going, I could probably do some of it.

Elda Rotor: 24:34

Okay, you know what you need to do the next time you're out for karaoke? You just turn the volume down and do the prologue. Talk about a buzzkill.

Jason Blitman: 24:42

I know, right? Seriously. Oh my God, it's so

Elda Rotor: 24:45

Adjust the mood. Or raise the bar, one or the

Jason Blitman: 24:48

Or raise the bar, exactly, I know. Um, okay, so you talked about classics, maybe it's like a 15 or 20 year anniversary. Oh my god, you're so funny. Just taking a sip of your Penguin Classics Little Women mug. Ha ha ha ha ha! Very on brand. Um, you have written articles, which I will stick in the show notes of this episode, about Some, some really big ideas that are super contemporary to, that contextually are super contemporary, um, like Marvel, and how Marvel can fit into a classic universe. Can you talk a little bit about that? And like, we don't, what's sort of the cliff note version of your article? And we can send people there to listen to

Elda Rotor: 25:35

I think basically, um, going to, working with Marvel, and we have a wonderful scholar. He actually founded the, the first college minor in comic studies in the United States, University of Washington professor, Ben Saunders. I worked with him on all our editions of our Penguin Classics Marvel collection. Um, so I was a new student to comics in this way, and the things I took away, these are like my My cliff notes were really moving because I was like, I'm getting the same type of education and personal like enlightenment that I get with individual classics that are on our backlist, but these are comics. So The Amazing Spider Man. I thought about debt, and family obligation, and the reluctance of young people who need to become adults very quickly. Um, because they have to be responsible for their families. That sounds like really deep, but it is in Spider Man, it's in these themes. Um, of him feeling this obligation to his aunt after his uncle passes. It's deep!

Jason Blitman: 26:38

it's, no, it's no different than like a captain going after a giant sperm whale. Like there's, you know, there's this sort of weird epic, uh,

Elda Rotor: 26:47

Totally.

Jason Blitman: 26:48

not quite real life.

Elda Rotor: 26:50

Yeah. Um, and let's, well the other takeaways I got were, like, Captain America had serious survival guilt, okay? I hear that. That's deep. And Black Panther was always an outsider in Wakanda. And, and how does, how does, how does he navigate that? Um, And then the groups of superheroes and I think that I also really appreciated our, our forwards were contributed by people like Lee Bardugo and Jason Reynolds and Gene Luen Yang and what they brought to how comics were meaningful to them and how they were part of their personal Like canon of classics. I learned about thinking about the Avengers as like your friends from work and how you have like a work family And you all are supposed to come together even though you're very different Creatures to get something done, you know, it's a problem solve I feel very funny about that the Avengers X Men is about embracing your otherness and finding people that also appreciate that. I think that has such resonance now, still. X Men, X Men, also the emotional ties my friends have with X Men of a certain era, probably from the 80s, is like real and was probably part of the inspiration for me. To do books with Marvel and then the Fantastic Four and I'm looking forward to that coming out that movie. Um, Chosen Family, I think is, is the idea of that and how we care for each other, understand each other when we might be monsters to other people. Um, That, to me, was, like, very special to realize. So, Marvel has this long history of storytelling that so many fans have been aware of, actually, have probably felt seen in these comic books, the way that people feel seen when they read Jane Austen or Russian Lit. It's, or some translations of classics from around the world. It's the same, it's the same feeling.

Jason Blitman: 28:46

Yeah. And, and to your point at the beginning, it has. Not only withstood the test of time, but it is something that is constantly coming up in conversation, in political context, in, you know, I mean, I think in all sorts of ways, it's, it's escapism for young people, um, for all sorts of people, not just young people, talking about it. Again, Marvel feels very contemporary, um, a 15th anniversary of something feels very contemporary. But also thinking through, in preparing for this conversation, I was thinking about the classics that I sort of have literally read, like To Kill a Mockingbird, um, but also classics that I have. Experienced in one way or another, and I think lots of people like me, their first encounter with what I would learn later is classic storytelling is Disney adaptations, right? I think adaptation in and of itself is a really, uh, unique way of bringing an old story to a contemporary audience. Thinking about Shakespeare, and how, you know, there's Ten Things I Hate About You is an adaptation of Shakespeare, and Clueless is an adaptation of Jane Austen, and, you know, annoyingly, those movies are now contemporary classic movies!

Elda Rotor: 30:22

Yes, yes. And irresistible, still. Irresistible, right? Like, you could say that about horror also. Um, you know, I loved, um, we have Robert Eggers do a foreword for our new, uh, hardcover edition of, Dracula coming up at the end of this year, and I invited him to do that before Nosferatu came out. And it was so interesting to hear from him, in his foreword, how formative Dracula was, like he was Dracula for Halloween like eight times when he was a kid. Um, you know, he created um, theater adaptations of it when he was in high school. And, and then what he says in his foreword, which I think is really interesting, and I would say it speaks for me too, is when a classic story is part of your life, and then you see something on television, and then you see a movie version, or a painting, you kind of like, it all becomes one, one mishmash of that classic, and it's okay, but then like when you would, when you return to the source, like, you kind of remember all these other things that, maybe weren't part of the original, but I still feel that that's, that's great. That's your version of the, that's your, you're translating it now. It's your understanding of a classic.

Jason Blitman: 31:33

I just had the craziest epiphany, Yelda.

Elda Rotor: 31:37

Yes.

Jason Blitman: 31:39

What did you say is your karaoke song?

Elda Rotor: 31:44

I dreamed a dream.

Jason Blitman: 31:45

Which is from what musical?

Elda Rotor: 31:47

Les Mis,

Jason Blitman: 31:47

Which is based on what?

Elda Rotor: 31:49

Les Miserables. I know, right?

Jason Blitman: 31:53

Classics are just taking over your life!

Elda Rotor: 31:56

know. And can I tell you when we, when we did the packaging, the cover design for our, for our Les Mis, I described what I wanted on the cover and Jillian Tamaki, she drew the most amazing cover for it. But it could also be the cover of the movie or the Broadway show because I was like, I want, I want barricades. And I want a woman with her hair shorn, I, I, I want the military on the left and it was just like very, and I, I probably did start breaking out into song

Jason Blitman: 32:23

Oh my god, that's so funny. Well, cause I was thinking, you know, Phantom of the Opera, the longest running musical on Broadway, based on a classic book, right? Les Mis, based on a classic book. The Great Gatsby is on Broadway right now. You know, it's, again, just like, it is, they're constantly in the zeitgeist. you talked about covers. I think sort of the, uh, quintessential, painting in a square in the middle with like a yellowish, beige ish background is like what everyone thinks of as a Penguin classic these days.

Elda Rotor: 33:00

Yes,

Jason Blitman: 33:01

Um, at some point you shared that a goal is to make great works of the past accessible to readers of today. My hunch is that packaging might have a lot to do with that because we are very judge a book by its cover people. Um, how does that process come to be for

Elda Rotor: 33:21

Yeah, it's a, it's one of my favorite, favorite parts of the job, and also probably one of my favorite meetings of the week, is we meet with the Penguin Art Department. Um, so what we do is we pitch the books that were coming out for the next season, and we give a sense of like, what art direction we would like to see, or an idea of what kind of artists we'd love. To see portfolios from and then art does a lot of research. They have an incredible network of emerging and established artists that they work with. We look at covers, we hash it out. Sometimes we argue like family does. Um, and and what we do is like for me, I don't want it to be your grandmother's penguin classics, right? I want it to be. A classic for today, but it is also like the key to your version of storytelling. When you look at a cover, you're going to pick it up. Either you're going to see it in a bookstore. So it's got to be dynamic and vibrant and something, an object that's going to attract you to go and pick it up at the table and ours instead of others around us. Um. Or it's going to be beautiful but in a thumbnail image because you're literally, you know, shopping when you shouldn't be shopping on your phone. And, and scrolling, and that cover in its tiniest form should just be as beautiful. Um, so we do have that, our, the heart of the whole series are what we call the Black Spine Penguin Classics, is what you, you say. And it's also

Jason Blitman: 34:44

behind you.

Elda Rotor: 34:45

Yes, that's the whole. People, I think that this is sort of status y for like the TikTok world or maybe the Pinterest world or they, it does have this like cachet of like, I read, you know, um, it does and it also looks like a fake background, but

Jason Blitman: 35:00

They're uniform, it's very sleek.

Elda Rotor: 35:02

But we do ha we do hardcovers that are in different, different series like Penguin Vitae and Penguin Drop Caps and I'm, I'm going to be launching a brand new series in the fall called Penguin Speculative Fiction Special for our sci fi fantasy horror friends. And this is a one off that I did, um, when Wicked came to the

Jason Blitman: 35:24

Oh my God. That's

Elda Rotor: 35:26

is Which, um, podcast folks, it is Wizard of Oz, but it is a blinged out Wizard of

Jason Blitman: 35:34

That is so blinged out. Oh my God. We, everyone is obsessed with sprayed edges these

Elda Rotor: 35:39

I know, unfortunately they have that term, it's spredges, which doesn't sound delightful to me at all, right? I'm sorry, I haven't said it.

Jason Blitman: 35:47

Who called? It spreads.

Elda Rotor: 35:48

somebody did, and I think they should take it back,

Jason Blitman: 35:50

I think Port Manaus in general need to, need to go.

Elda Rotor: 35:55

Because you can never stop, right?

Jason Blitman: 35:56

Can I start a who? Who do I need to talk

Elda Rotor: 35:59

I don't know. Portmanteau police. Or the, I can't even, I can't even portmanteau that. So, and look we have Toto too. We put him in end paper. But so, yes. So there are printed edges with the characters from the Wizard of Oz across the paper. And um, beautiful. This is supposed to be the view when you're in. In a balloon, looking at Kansas, or it could be the stained glass of a window in Emerald City. It could go either way. See what we do here?

Jason Blitman: 36:32

my God.

Elda Rotor: 36:33

Yes.

Jason Blitman: 36:34

That is so special. So I also post these on YouTube, and I encourage anyone who's listening to go just look at YouTube. Because this book is so gorgeous. And then go buy a copy.

Elda Rotor: 36:45

And then go buy a copy,

Jason Blitman: 36:46

I feel like if I were you, I would just have every copy on my shelf because they're beautiful.

Elda Rotor: 36:51

Yes, I try. Well, you know, we have as many as we can of the new titles in the office. Uh, I'm not, I'm not allowed to bring so many books because I live in New York City in an apartment.

Jason Blitman: 37:03

Right.

Elda Rotor: 37:04

it's the same rule as tote bags. Like, I can't

Jason Blitman: 37:08

get get one, you have to get rid of one. Yeah.

Elda Rotor: 37:11

I mean, I, I bring like, like 14 to the grocery store. But I, you know, that's, I have too many tote bags. But I, I always want another one. I want another one.

Jason Blitman: 37:21

Tote bags and mugs.

Elda Rotor: 37:22

Yes, so if you have one, I'd be all for it, but no pressure,

Jason Blitman: 37:25

now that I just saw your Little Women Classics mug, I'm like, oh my god, I need a classic mug.

Elda Rotor: 37:32

Yes, you do. Yes, you do. We'll make, we'll work on that. We'll make that happen,

Jason Blitman: 37:36

Oh my god, yes, I'll get you a gaze reading tote bag, and I'll get a Penguin Classics mug. So funny. Um, okay, weird question, because Classics As a person who is not studying them, and a person who doesn't work with them on a daily basis, um, this is going to be a very bold statement, but I don't think I'm wrong. They seem very white. I'm curious. My instinct is that part of that is political of the time, and what was getting published, and what, you know, all sorts of things. But I'm curious if there are things that are discovered or uncovered, or is there like a Penguin Classics excavation process of finding things that we might not have been talking about for the last 50 years?

Elda Rotor: 38:31

oh, yes. Absolutely. If you can find us, we're on the socials, of course. But we also have our own website for Penguin Classics, the United States. It's Penguin Classics for sure. We have a very robust, uh, shall I say the word diverse? I will. Um, color, uh, like writers of color, writers from all around the world, it's, it's really been, um, a real mission for us, uh, at least for sure, for like, I'd say 18 years we've been committed to this. And it's interesting too, perspective wise, it's exactly what you said, when you think about. I guess gatekeeping and, uh, this sort of like cultural elite, um, arenas, it's sort of like, it kind of represents a historical moment, it also represents who might have been marginalized for one reason or another, who was published in the right magazines or not. And then that sort of trickles down to who then should be worthy of being published. And we love archival work. We love learning about scholars and experts who are in the trenches. Um, I would say like crate digging, sort of like looking for vinyl. You know, cause there are such amazing authors that might have not been as popular as they could be today, but they wrote back in the day.

Jason Blitman: 39:54

Right. The the work exists.

Elda Rotor: 39:56

work exists, yeah. And, you know, so it, it doesn't look like Penguin Classics did. It's basically like there's more room at the table. Nobody's excluded. And the best thing is because those writers that maybe haven't been published as well in the past are speaking to the books that you already know, that have been canonical and established. They have had peers writing and I am sure that the authors that have been established love to have these conversations with them.

Jason Blitman: 40:26

not to put you on the spot to say what are a handful of books that people could start with or turn to that they may not have ever heard of before. You don't have to, like, come up with a list right now. I mean you can, but I was going to say we could maybe put together a list that I could include in the show notes

Elda Rotor: 40:44

Oh, can I do that? I'd love to.

Jason Blitman: 40:46

yeah, yeah, yeah. So, because I think, you know, I specifically went to the classics section of the bookstore to get Moby Dick, because I was looking for this specific classic. My instinct is that that's what a lot of people do. They go to the section because they're looking for that one thing that they're reading with their friends, or that is based on whatever, or who knows why, but they're not browsing the classic section in the way they're browsing the new fiction section. And so, I'm excited, let's point people in the direction of books that they probably haven't read that they'll love just as much as

Elda Rotor: 41:22

Yeah. And I would do a little visual trick, also, is I would go into the literature sections. Of the, the bookcases, like in, like I said, where the backlist is, right? Not necessarily the front tables. The front tables will have our gorgeous hardcovers and deluxes, for sure. But you look for our penguin, and in the black, in the black spined tuxedo dress, right? In paperback, and they will be embedded, they'll be threaded in the fiction, A to Z. Um, and you'll find our editions there. And you'll be surprised, pleasantly surprised, with the variety of authors that we're publishing.

Jason Blitman: 41:53

I love that so much. right, because I, I want to read more classics too, but I also want to read classics that I didn't know I wanted to read.

Elda Rotor: 42:01

Exactly. Exactly.

Jason Blitman: 42:03

I could sit here all day. I could ask you so many questions. I could ask you how you come up with, you know, your alphabet series where, you know, you have the A to Z and it's the base, it's the author's last name. And that's the letter. Like I could ask you how you come up with that person and why you chose that. I could, we could go letter by letter. We could have a whole series. Um, well, we don't have time for that today.

Elda Rotor: 42:24

Not today, Satan. Heh heh

Jason Blitman: 42:27

Um, I wanted to come up with a whole list to ask you about classic fictional characters, who you would screw, marry, or kill. And I have to say, Elda, when I was going through the list, I was so overwhelmed for a lot of reasons. A, there are a lot of classic fictional characters.

Elda Rotor: 42:47

Mm. Mm.

Jason Blitman: 42:50

that you might not have read all of the books, and so you wouldn't really have anything to speak on why you were answering the way that you were answering. So, instead of playing the game, I will ask you sort of in a big picture, canonically, who would you screw, who would you marry, who would you kill? Oh,

Elda Rotor: 43:16

Well, okay. So, bad boyfriend potential here. Um, I didn't learn anything from reading this when I was 16, I think. Alright. Also, I'm looking forward to the Greta Gerwig movie version. But Wuthering Heights, Heathcliff. Okay, screw still. Sure. Yes. Now, I don't want, I don't want your followers to get confused. I'm going to pause and then say, Jacob Elordi is happening to be in the Wuthering Heights for Greta Gerwig. He's going to play Heathcliff. But that is a whole hot, like, conversation is who should be Heathcliff. I

Jason Blitman: 43:52

Who do you think should be

Elda Rotor: 43:53

I think it should be Dev Patel.

Jason Blitman: 43:56

Oh, okay.

Elda Rotor: 43:59

it

Jason Blitman: 44:00

You just showed your cards.

Elda Rotor: 44:01

ha ha ha. That would be that. So, so Mary. Oh my goodness. No. Oh, jeez, this is gonna be too hard. Cause I'm thinking of, I'm just thinking about very traumatic characters. Like, I don't want to marry Dracula. I don't want to marry any of the kids, no I can't marry kids from Lord of the Flies. This is gonna be too tough. Definitely not Captain Ahab. Oh gosh, can I just, can I just stay unmarried? Can I just like, no?

Jason Blitman: 44:33

What about like Mr. Darcy or like, you know, very like, cliche?

Elda Rotor: 44:38

You know what, I'm gonna go for, I'm gonna marry the lion from The Wizard of Oz.

Jason Blitman: 44:42

Um,

Elda Rotor: 44:43

I know,

Jason Blitman: 44:44

I love that

Elda Rotor: 44:45

right? Loyal, and just cute.

Jason Blitman: 44:48

Loyal and courageous and very kind.

Elda Rotor: 44:51

you're right. And I can dominate, so that's okay.

Jason Blitman: 44:54

Yes! Oh my god, yes! Wicked Witch of the West!

Elda Rotor: 45:02

and then kill. Oh geez, who would I want to kill? Oh, mmm,

Jason Blitman: 45:08

I know, it's very, it's mean. You like, you almost have to pick someone who dies in one of the books, because otherwise. Or someone who's like, annoying.

Elda Rotor: 45:16

someone is annoying. Gosh, that's gonna make, I'm gonna get in so much trouble to say who, I'm looking at all my books to see who I would kill. Oh, goodness, that's too hard. What

Jason Blitman: 45:29

I know, this is such a mean question.

Elda Rotor: 45:31

who, cause you know why? Cause even villains have, they, they've had a bad, something bad happened in their childhood,

Jason Blitman: 45:38

Yes! Look at Wicked! Look at Wicked!

Elda Rotor: 45:40

at Wicked. So, I don't know if I would kill. How about if I, if I kill the beast, the spirit of evil on the island of Lord of the Flies? That's like, I'm going around, you know.

Jason Blitman: 45:51

That's a great answer. That's okay.

Elda Rotor: 45:53

would kill the beast.

Jason Blitman: 45:54

Yes. That's like, that's like the equivalent of Miss America saying she wants world peace.

Elda Rotor: 46:01

Exactly! That's my fancy, that's my fancy answer.

Jason Blitman: 46:05

exactly. Oh my god, those are great answers.

Elda Rotor: 46:08

I've tried. I've tried.

Jason Blitman: 46:10

my god. I love that we have scratched the surface as to what makes a classic.

Elda Rotor: 46:17

so much more.

Jason Blitman: 46:18

There's so much more. And I feel like, you know, we could do a whole book club on, you know, deep dive on every single, every single classic going on. Um, but yeah, the idea of what makes a classic a classic, I think will forever be this ongoing conversation. And I love that.

Elda Rotor: 46:36

And I, I love pondering it every single day. It changes every day.

Jason Blitman: 46:40

And, and, is there something particular, maybe, quote unquote, today, that is, that you're thinking about that's, that's new and different that you weren't thinking about? Metaphorically, yesterday.

Elda Rotor: 46:52

Yeah, I think for me today, right now, it's about emotion. It's like, what emotion do our readers have right now? And what do they, what kind of classics? are gonna help them out. Um, I was saying that we should work on nobody who is a publisher take this idea from me or I'll find you. Anyway, I was thinking in a meeting today, I said should we do, um, classics for anxious people? Maybe we should.

Jason Blitman: 47:17

That's a great little bundle. I know. What's gonna make us feel warm and cozy at

Elda Rotor: 47:23

Yes. Calmer.

Jason Blitman: 47:24

a little safer in the world and calmer? Yes.

Elda Rotor: 47:28

every generation, I tell you.

Jason Blitman: 47:31

Honestly, it's a great idea to put together just like lists. You don't, they don't even have to be actual collections, but a list of here are books to make you calm. Here are books when you want to feel rage. Here are books that you may not have ever heard of before. Here, like we, you know. Right,

Elda Rotor: 47:49

stealing or borrowing this idea. And you'll see it on our socials in a month. Thank

Jason Blitman: 47:54

you're welcome. You're

Elda Rotor: 47:55

You're the best. I'll tag you. I'll get your mug. You will, you will get, you will get the mug for sure.

Jason Blitman: 48:02

Oh my god, El Toro Tor.

Elda Rotor: 48:04

Rhetorical.

Jason Blitman: 48:05

I'm obsessed with you! Um, I'm publicly stating that I want to have you back this fall to talk about your sci fi series because no better time to talk about it than the Halloween time.

Elda Rotor: 48:18

Oh, that would be fun.

Jason Blitman: 48:19

and everyone go check out the show notes where you'll find a list of classics that you might not have ever heard of that you need to check out. You'll, I'll link Elda's, uh, Marvel article and other fun little nuggets in the show notes.

Elda Rotor: 48:35

Great.

Jason Blitman: 48:35

Thank you for being here.

Elda Rotor: 48:36

thank you for having me. I so enjoyed it.