0:04

Gaze reading where the greats drop by trendy authors. Tell us all the who, what and why. Anyone can listen Comes we are spoiler free. Reading from stars to book club picks we're the curious minds can get their picks. Say you're not gay. Well that's okay there something everyone. Hello, and welcome to Gay's Reading. I'm your host Jason Blitman, and on today's episode, I have Jemimah Wei talking to me about her book, the original daughter and my guest, gay reader. PRL Guru, who is known worldwide for being an incredible fashion designer. He talks to me about what he's reading and a little bit about his memoir, walk Like A Girl. Prl and I talked for so long that I couldn't even fit. A fraction of our conversation in this episode, and so much of our conversation could be found over on the gays reading Substack, so make sure to check that out. The link is in the show notes and on the link tree on Instagram, both Jemimah and problems. Bios are in the show notes the original daughter. Is the current Good Morning America Book Club Pick, and also it is an Aardvark book Club pick. And of course, I am partnering with Aardvark Book Club to offer an introductory discount where you can get your first book for$4 and free shipping. So go on over to aardvark book club.com. Use the code gays reading at checkout, and you can get your own copy of the original daughter for only$4. Such a good deal. We are on Instagram at Gay's reading. You could watch this conversation over on YouTube. You could watch the conversation that I've just had with Rosie O'Donnell over on YouTube. Y'all, I'm still compelling about the fact that I had Rosie O'Donnell on gay's reading, and not everyone realized that the episode was on YouTube. So you can watch her and I over there. It was just so much fun and I'm still so thrilled both Rosie O'Donnell and Frederick Bachman in the same week on gay's reading. So incredibly special. if you haven't yet listened make sure to check those episodes out. And as always, if you like what you're hearing, please share us with your friends. And if you are so inclined, leave a five star review wherever you get your podcast. As I say all the time, this is a little indie podcast and any any feedback that we can get from listeners and things like stars and subscriptions, et cetera really helps the algorithm and helps other people find GA's reading as well. I. This past week I was in conversation with with the actor turned author, Lily Taylor. About her book Turning to Birds. And that conversation was recorded and will be over on our substack as well, so make sure to check that out. And those are all the things. Now, please enjoy this episode of gays Reading, featuring Jemimah Wei and Prabal Gurung

Jason Blitman: 3:10

my interview this morning, we spent so much time talking about treadmill, desks.

Jemimah Wei: 3:16

Wait, I feel like those are becoming really popular. I was at my friend's house, Gina Chung. She, her novel Sea Change came out a couple years ago and Green Frog Historic Collection came out that, yeah. And she has one of those. And then I was talking to Francis Cha, not a novelist who also got one of those walking desks and I was like, I have to get on this. I feel like.

Jason Blitman: 3:37

So you have to start the trend, or you have to be, you have to get on the wave at the beginning of it.

Jemimah Wei: 3:42

Yeah, except I don't wanna exercise, so then that's like a real problem,

Jason Blitman: 3:46

Apparently it moves so slowly that it's okay.

Jemimah Wei: 3:50

oh, do you have one?

Jason Blitman: 3:52

No, but after this conversation this morning, I want one,

Jemimah Wei: 3:55

Oh, really? Okay. Okay. Okay.

Jason Blitman: 3:57

but apparently, so this is what I learned. She has to put her fitbit in her sock because if you're typing, the Fitbit doesn't track the steps. And so it's not worth doing if you're not getting the tracks, so that if you end up doing it, that's important to know.

Jemimah Wei: 4:15

I mean it is worth doing it'cause you still get the exercise,

Jason Blitman: 4:18

I know.

Jemimah Wei: 4:19

I don't know. I feel like I I only like to sweat on schedule, so I don't wanna be thinking and sweating. I don't know. I don't

Jason Blitman: 4:28

Say more. What do you mean?

Jemimah Wei: 4:30

I, okay, look, I come from Singapore, right? We are off the equator. I sweat all the time. Growing up, I didn't leave my country to sweat some more. So in America, when the weather gets hot, I'm just like, what is this? I didn't come here for this.

Jason Blitman: 4:42

This is very fair,

Jemimah Wei: 4:43

I don't wanna sweat. If I wanna sweat, it has to be for like, from eight to 9:00 PM in the gym where I signed up to sweat.

Jason Blitman: 4:49

right?

Jemimah Wei: 4:49

like atmospheric sweating. I don't

Jason Blitman: 4:51

Correct. Yes. You are an intentional sweater,

Jemimah Wei: 4:55

I am.

Jason Blitman: 4:56

right?

Jemimah Wei: 4:57

I like the idea of, active and exercising

Jason Blitman: 5:00

yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 5:01

So I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

Jason Blitman: 5:03

Do you sweat when you get nervous? Do you sweat? Are there like other times that you sweat? No. It's just like only when you're warm.

Jemimah Wei: 5:08

Yeah. No, but the problem is I'm one of those people whose body temperature runs a bit hot,

Jason Blitman: 5:12

Yeah, me too.

Jemimah Wei: 5:13

like really bad for someone who grew up on the equator

Jason Blitman: 5:17

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 5:18

I'm allergic to my own sweat, which is something a dermatologist told me when I was like in my twenties. So so

Jason Blitman: 5:25

How is that possible?

Jemimah Wei: 5:26

Yeah, so like I have a low level allergy on sweat, which means that if I sweat too much, I get like crazy heat rash. And when I was growing up I thought that

Jason Blitman: 5:33

Oh,

Jemimah Wei: 5:34

this derm was like, no, this is like a reaction to your sweat. So if you sweat you have to wipe it off immediately so it doesn't sit on your skin'cause you actually are a little bit allergic to your own sweat. And I was like, this is terrible for me personally, really bad news because I live in the equator on a, in a tropical country, it's

Jason Blitman: 5:51

Sorry, family. I have to move, right? I grew up in Florida and so. I have a similar feeling. Whenever I'm in humidity, I'm like no, no, no, no, no. I left Florida. I should not be in humidity right now.

Jemimah Wei: 6:08

Yeah. Is

Jason Blitman: 6:09

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 6:10

ask that we have our personal atmosphere? Follow us around. It's like temperature control and.

Jason Blitman: 6:14

Jemima, how do we make this happen?

Jemimah Wei: 6:17

Listen, I'm sure some r and d person in Singapore is on it,

Jason Blitman: 6:21

Oh, interesting. I know. I have so many. I would like to submit my feedback.

Jemimah Wei: 6:25

okay?

Jason Blitman: 6:27

Send me their info. I will send my opinions.

Jemimah Wei: 6:30

We send a ticket and we hear back

Jason Blitman: 6:32

Right.

Jemimah Wei: 6:32

Five walking days.

Jason Blitman: 6:34

Perfect. You understand? Thank you. Thank you. See, you never know what you're gonna talk about at the beginning of a podcast.

Jemimah Wei: 6:41

you started a podcast. People log on and they're like, oh, we think we're gonna listen to people talking about a book today. And then they're like, what's a sweaty conversation?

Jason Blitman: 6:48

are boring. No, I'm kidding. no. I'm obsessed that you have this like YouTuber history, is that, we'll get into that and how it relates to the book in a minute, but Can you share how that even came to be for you?

Jemimah Wei: 7:02

sure. So basically I grew up, I was born and raised in Singapore and back in the day we were like flirting with the internet. And it wasn't this like all encompassing thing that it is today. So much

Jason Blitman: 7:13

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 7:13

lives. Back then it was like, if my mom is on the phone with a friend, I can't use the internet. It's PPE pop, on the line. So it really didn't feel like such a, who

Jason Blitman: 7:23

Yeah. Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 7:24

When I was about, I think I was 20, maybe 19 or 20, I was scouted and I did a reality show. Back then, YouTube wasn't even that big. So it wasn't even on YouTube, it was on this like online TV network. His own TV channel. And so I did that for several years and I just continued'cause I had a lot of fun. It was really good, like experience. It was just so unusual as a part-time job. I was in college, right? And

Jason Blitman: 7:49

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 7:49

around me was like doing part-time jobs, like working at tough shop or giving tuition and or giving piano lessons. And this one was like. Oh, we'll pay you to show up once a week and just talk about fashion. I was like, I'll do that. That seems way more fun. And I had a great experience, like I was guided by a woman. like, I worked with A lot of very strong women. I was ticked under the wing almost immediately of some mentors in the industry who were in like traditional TV media. And so I felt like even though it was a definitely challenging and a learning curve, I was very like shepherded and mentored. And I think it made such huge difference for me. And it was only, like sometime into doing that where my producer was like, you have to get on. Social media, more intentionally, because everybody is looking for, connection, different ways to connect. So they watch you on screen, they wanna find other ways to connect with

Jason Blitman: 8:40

Yeah,

Jemimah Wei: 8:41

a point, I think, I didn't even use an iPhone, so I, do you know, do you remember when Instagram didn't have an Android app? That was, that's how old I am,

Jason Blitman: 8:49

I don't, because I always had an iPhone. I mean, I've never had an Android, so it doesn't matter. I remember when Instagram started, but I

Jemimah Wei: 8:57

it was like purely, A Blackberry girlie, so I had a Blackberry and

Jason Blitman: 9:01

Oh,

Jemimah Wei: 9:02

you need to get Instagram. And I was like, can't do it babes. Like I don't got an iPhone. And so I got an iPad like from work. So I was working also at advertising agency at a time. I was a copywriter. And they were like here's an iPad to help if you work. And I was like, cool. I downloaded Instagram, imagine me like some. Old person having this massive iPad that I would then be like, oh, I need to upload something to Instagram. And then I would email myself from

Jason Blitman: 9:27

Right.

Jemimah Wei: 9:28

download the photo of my iPad and be like, this is what I have for lunch.

Jason Blitman: 9:32

This is what I had for lunch. It was delicious. Go to this restaurant,

Jemimah Wei: 9:37

Yeah, or Myself at the dentist, like With my iPad, which had no internet connection, so I had to get wifi. It was like crazy times.

Jason Blitman: 9:45

Oh my God. Like, excuse me, dentist, your mouth is full. What's your wifi password?

Jemimah Wei: 9:52

literally. And then, so it was like, it was so insane. But it felt fun, it felt like a good time. I don't know if.

Jason Blitman: 9:58

Okay.

Jemimah Wei: 9:58

It still feels like a good time. The internet feels crazy right now,

Jason Blitman: 10:01

Yeah, it does. It's like a, yeah. Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 10:04

back then though, it was really fun.

Jason Blitman: 10:06

We need like caution tape around the internet right now.

Jemimah Wei: 10:09

I think so. It, I just, I do feel like I watched the way,'cause I have two younger sisters I watched the way they grew up differently with diff entering the internet at different points. Do think it makes a big difference,

Jason Blitman: 10:19

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 10:20

I. back to it. So I was doing that and then I started doing other, one thing leads to another, I did like that show for a while. I did another show. I did that, those were my long form shows. I did documentaries. I did like travel shows with traditional networks. So I did all stuff like that. And a big part of that in the media is then you get brand endorsements. So I also did content creation, I have friends who are full-time content creators, and they work so hard. They have like intense mood boards. They pitch like crazy. They have Brand X. And I was just vibing out. I was like, I got a show. I'm on a show. And then I was like, listen, I don't have a I'm not a photographer, I'm not like I'm interested in it, but I'm not like a

Jason Blitman: 10:57

Yeah,

Jemimah Wei: 10:58

to make like a beautiful brand video. So if you want something shot on my like Android, like a selfie Hey guys, like I can totally do that.

Jason Blitman: 11:06

right. Send me a hotspot.

Jemimah Wei: 11:09

Totally. Totally. And then, later my sister gave me an iPhone. She was like, girl. So that was like, that was really nice. After that, it was just one thing leading to another. I do think that yeah, then after that, like YouTube became really big, so then a

Jason Blitman: 11:22

Yeah,

Jemimah Wei: 11:23

So a lot of my later, like media, like shows ended up being hosted on YouTube. But I think that I, again, I think I was really lucky I had to learn all those like. Site skills separately because I was first and foremost hired as a presenter, my

Jason Blitman: 11:38

sure. Right, right.

Jemimah Wei: 11:41

Have to do any of the heavy lifting. I didn't do editing. I didn't do like script writing for the show. I didn't direct or anything, so I just

Jason Blitman: 11:48

Basic, what I'm hearing you say is that like what you're doing right now, you're happy to be here right now'cause you have nothing else to do, but just be yourself And chat.

Jemimah Wei: 11:57

Exactly. And I have so much respect and admiration and gratitude for the people who edit it later and go do the sound mixing and everything. I later did a bit of producing and a

Jason Blitman: 12:06

Totally.

Jemimah Wei: 12:07

a bit of script writing. So I did develop those skills separately,

Jason Blitman: 12:11

But you're, but when you came on board, you were on board to be a personality. Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 12:17

it was fun.

Jason Blitman: 12:17

Yeah. That's so awesome.

Jemimah Wei: 12:20

I did a hot pivot when I moved to the States to pursue writing

Jason Blitman: 12:24

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 12:25

And that was, I, it is crazy you think about it. I was in 2019, so it's been like six years.

Jason Blitman: 12:31

Wow. And so I have the book here, the original daughter. I'm so excited. The concept of becoming a YouTuber Is I don't wanna say a major plot point. I guess it's a major plot point. It is a big moment in the book. But before we get ahead of ourselves, do you have an elevator pitch for the book or you're like one liner that you say your book is about?

Jemimah Wei: 12:55

Sure. Okay, so my name is Jemima Wey and I'm the author of The Original Daughter, which is coming out with double day books. It's about two sisters growing up in Singapore, one adopted, and they're navigating the turn of the millennium, the rapid progression, the fact that Singapore is out ultra competitive, super stressful, and rapidly modernizing, and also trying to navigate their relationship to independence and intimacy on their journey towards fame and fortune.

Jason Blitman: 13:21

Obsessed, that's you are succinct. You've already said you have two younger sisters. What was that process like writing this book? That's really, at its core it is a, it's a sister book. It's a book about sisters. I have two younger sisters as well. And so I read it thinking about oh, what if this was, what if these were my sisters?

Jemimah Wei: 13:41

So it's interesting because obviously it is about sisters, but I wasn't thinking so much about sisters as my entry point to the book

Jason Blitman: 13:48

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 13:48

was about the idea of family being given away and taken in. Because those silences, that is extremely common in the generation where I grew up and my parents grew up and even before that in Singapore. And our region is super, super common for

Jason Blitman: 14:03

Hmm.

Jemimah Wei: 14:04

Given away or adopted.

Jason Blitman: 14:06

Wow.

Jemimah Wei: 14:06

For all kinds of reasons. Like families are too big, they can't support all their kids. And and people don't like to talk about it obviously. Established, I am a big to yap. And as a yapper, when you come up against big silences in life, you're like, what is the silence? And so I became really aware of those silences around. Those choices at a really young age. And I think as a kid, maybe this was my first pictured exercise, I would just like invent into those silences. So I think that was like one way of thinking about the book of entering the book. What would it be like to have that relationship where somebody entered into your family, Or your family reconfigured itself, in a way, like in a way that's not like super conventional and that people don't talk about very much. What would it mean to be a secret? What would it mean to be like, the only child and then have to accommodate and love another sister that's brought into your life

Jason Blitman: 14:57

Mm-hmm.

Jemimah Wei: 14:58

Age. Like it's seven or eight, that's the age where each of them are when this happens. And what do the silencers born of care open up? And fracture for us, so The questions I was really thinking about. And that is not the relationship I had with my sisters. Like I watched them come out with my mom. Okay. Like I was at a hospital being like, mom, hurry up. And

Jason Blitman: 15:15

All right. That's just aggressive.

Jemimah Wei: 15:17

oh, I know.

Jason Blitman: 15:19

That's a diff, that's a different kind of drama

Jemimah Wei: 15:21

it's a different Yeah,

Jason Blitman: 15:22

watching them come out.

Jemimah Wei: 15:24

Not literally watching house in the waiting room. But so This is not the relationship I have with my

Jason Blitman: 15:28

sure.

Jemimah Wei: 15:29

and so I didn't think about that so much. But then obviously, everybody's this is a book about sisters, and it is, it's totally a book about sisters, but to me it's also a book about chosen family and how do we choose, keep choosing them or not, and

Jason Blitman: 15:42

Yeah. What's so interesting is that you said there that it's non-traditional and it's so fascinating because it's disguised as traditional. So it's EAs quote unquote, easy to pretend to lean into what a reality is for, to the outside world, right? So it can, it's a secret to everyone else, but internally it's, there's nothing normal about it.

Jemimah Wei: 16:09

Yeah. And the thing is I do believe that Chosen family is. As valuable and as legitimate as biological family. And I think that in this specific family that I've written, there are attempts to to pretend, not to pretend, but to keep insisting and reassuring the adopted daughter that it's true does create an isolating experience I think the silences around it. To be like, these are both my daughters. This is my sister. That, that is both reassuring and also not a hundred percent exactly what the reality is. And so then

Jason Blitman: 16:40

right.

Jemimah Wei: 16:41

this child is left to figure out on her own what this identity means to her What this relationship means to her. And she knows that it's not malicious, right? She knows that her family loves her. It's just the fact that you never ever talk about

Jason Blitman: 16:54

The reality.

Jemimah Wei: 16:56

of it, I

Jason Blitman: 16:56

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 16:57

can, and I've seen that happen so many times in my interpersonal relationships, in my extended family. I do think we should call, it, it's, I think there is no such thing as overcommunication and so it's it does create fractures down the road if you have silences around things that Normalize or pretend not to pretend that they don't exist.

Jason Blitman: 17:17

Yeah. It's so interesting because I am. My therapist has been out of town for a few weeks, and so I'm processing things a lot for myself right now. I'm using my coping skills but I haven't talked to my dad in five years And there's some other tensions within my family and me and so much of it I'm realizing right now if I were to dig to the root of why it is because of silences. It is because of things that we're not talking about, that we're not addressing or that we're ignoring. And I'm over here as a yapper being like excuse me. What the hell? Why aren't we talking about this thing? And because no one's willing to meet me there. That's where the estrangement is coming from. Yeah, it's very interesting.

Jemimah Wei: 18:08

definitely see that. I hear you on that, and I think that the thing is if you're not habituated to communicating and talking, it will always be difficult at a start. You're always gonna have friction and bump up against each other. But I think that's part of the. Growing pains or pushing past that

Jason Blitman: 18:23

Yes.

Jemimah Wei: 18:24

of your relationship. Are so like accustomed to being afraid of pain and so we don't wanna take that, we don't wanna enter that zone of discomfort Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 18:32

It's interesting just talking about being break, moving beyond the pain. There's, at the beginning of the book you talk about liberation. What does, unrelated to the book, what does that mean to you? What does feeling liberated mean to you?

Jemimah Wei: 18:47

So my answer to that keeps changing. I will say

Jason Blitman: 18:50

Oh.

Jemimah Wei: 18:51

I was really obsessive the idea of liberation and freedom while writing the book.

Jason Blitman: 18:55

Interesting.

Jemimah Wei: 18:56

and processing a lot of what that means to

Jason Blitman: 18:59

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 18:59

I think that it's tossed around a lot as a catchall phrase, right? Can't talk about liberation freedom without talking about the very real costs that come with it. So for me, I feel like I have developed like this great ambition for love in my, like twenties and thirties and what that looks like to different people is different. And so for me, I orient my life. those relationships, around that kind of guiding principle. And it looks quite different from I thought my life would look and so for me, I think right now being able to like fully interrogate my life circumstances and why I make the choices I make and take those steps intentionally is a kind of freedom for me. It's a way of reclaiming time because I think that when you live in a hyper capitalist. Hyper cosmopolitan society, it moves too fast. Can get swept up in the way circumstances carry us forward. We're just trying to survive and not really interrogating our lives. And then we're gonna wake up one day and be like, oh, there goes the last five, 10 years. And I, the one thing you can't go is back. The That's what it does. And It's really important for me to be like, this is why I'm doing this right now. These are the choices I'm making and. If things go well, great. If things don't go well, it's also a choice I make. I think to be able to take agency and responsibility and accountability for my life is a kind of freedom because Time and owning my life, whereas I don't wanna be carried along by the currents of society. Who knows where that's gonna go yeah.

Jason Blitman: 20:20

If it's, if the last few months have been any indication, we don't wanna hop on that train. I, that's a really special answer. I like that so much. And hearing you say that. The book is so much about time and is so much about not going back and about what's to come. Totally pivoting. What is your relationship with McDonald's?

Jemimah Wei: 20:45

Gosh, dunno, I tell you, I really love a chicken nugget. I don't, I. I don't have a sweet tooth at all,

Jason Blitman: 20:52

Okay,

Jemimah Wei: 20:53

I'm a savory kind of person.

Jason Blitman: 20:54

yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 20:54

a real shock to me in America, everybody eats cookies. And I was like, at first I was like, why are people eating so many cookies? And I realized that's because if you want a snack, that's the like snacks shaped thing, a cookie. But in. Asia, you could be like, I want a snack, and then eat a nugget. There are, it's not just McDonald's, there are all these other snack stands or or chunky, which is a really popular like check chain in Singapore where you could get like fish balls on a stick or a fish nugget or a

Jason Blitman: 21:21

Oh,

Jemimah Wei: 21:22

puff. So like a snack shaped thing that's

Jason Blitman: 21:24

Oh,

Jemimah Wei: 21:24

just wanna eat a piece of meat. I don't wanna eat a cookie

Jason Blitman: 21:27

what about a potato chip?

Jemimah Wei: 21:29

That's okay. you eat too many potato chips to get really thirsty

Jason Blitman: 21:33

It's not hard. Hard to get enough for you.

Jemimah Wei: 21:35

Yeah, I wanna like

Jason Blitman: 21:36

Right, right.

Jemimah Wei: 21:37

You. And, okay

Jason Blitman: 21:38

You've said that note two times in the same way. And I appreciate the heft behind that phrase. I want to eat a piece of meat, like That's right. I love it.

Jemimah Wei: 21:47

And I say that as somebody who's Pescaterian for two, four years and I was like, I have to go back to this.

Jason Blitman: 21:51

Wait, are hold, wait a minute. Hold on. I need to know more. You're a pescatarian. Do you, are you No longer a pescatarian. Okay. Okay. Okay. I was gonna say, if you're a pescatarian, but you only make an exception for chicken nuggets from McDonald's, that would, I would've been obsessed with that. Okay. So once a amount of time you're a pescatarian, but now enough, right?

Jemimah Wei: 22:10

to be able pescatarian.'cause fish is really expensive.

Jason Blitman: 22:12

Yes. Oh my God.

Jemimah Wei: 22:16

Reason to go back.

Jason Blitman: 22:17

We've all been there. I feel you. so, okay, so that's how your relationship with McDonald's began.

Jemimah Wei: 22:23

No. It's not just that. It's also, okay, so growing up like I, my family, like here from pretty spare circumstances, so I never ever go any McDonald's. It was a luxury. A year on my birthday, my dad would take me to McDonald's. And so every year I would just look forward to eating at McDonald's for my birthday. And we were just like. It would be like our catch up time. We chit chat about whatever we wanted to talk about. And McDonald's and Singapore had two big menu items. You could eat the hotcakes or you could eat the, like the burger. So every other thing to myself, oh, year I'll be thinking, should I get hotcakes this year or the burger This year I had a hot, I had a hotcakes last year, so maybe this year I the burger. And when I, started getting pocket money and being able to. Go to McDonald's and buy a fish burger on my own It was this whole thing where I could not get it.'cause it was too expensive. Like my parents would've to buy it for me on my birthday once a year.

Jason Blitman: 23:14

right.

Jemimah Wei: 23:14

And then, so to finally be able to eat my McDonald meal, I was like, what is this like true luxury to eat a fish burger by myself? Like I

Jason Blitman: 23:22

you want.

Jemimah Wei: 23:23

Whenever I won, like it was crazy. And so in Singapore, a lot of McDonald's are 24 hours.

Jason Blitman: 23:28

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 23:29

Our relationship to fast food chains, not just McDonald's. It's as you read the book, you'll know that we have a really intense educational culture and so people study all the time. And so you go to McDonald's and sit there with a student meal. Sit up for six hours doing your math, mathematics, homework,

Jason Blitman: 23:45

Wow.

Jemimah Wei: 23:46

homework. And so it's very common to be like, Hey, do you wanna go to McDonald's and growing up, let's say it would be one of the more affordable options.'cause you think about whole meal for McDonald's, it also has student meals, so it would be$5 for a burger drink and fry.

Jason Blitman: 24:00

Wow.

Jemimah Wei: 24:01

that's less than a cost of a Starbucks coffee. So if you have money, you would go to. Starbucks to study, if you like, had no money, you would go to the library or McDonald's and hang out with your friends and do your homework together. And so that was like really the relationship I had with it growing up, it felt really like fun and special.

Jason Blitman: 24:20

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 24:21

obviously, globalization you can, our relationship to that has changed. Was a real sentimental and nostalgic place to return to.

Jason Blitman: 24:29

It's so funny because McDonald's comes up a couple times in the book, obviously is why I'm asking about it, and I don't know why, but I didn't expect this like rich history for you with McDonald's. Thank you for sharing all of that. I love that so much.

Jemimah Wei: 24:47

Oh, welcome. Yeah, I definitely wanted to deliberately write into the book things

Jason Blitman: 24:52

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 24:53

meant a lot to Singaporeans growing up in that specific period, you know?

Jason Blitman: 24:56

Can you describe to me the three ways of eating a fry?

Jemimah Wei: 25:00

So you can like I just like the normal way, like just numb, num,

Jason Blitman: 25:05

Right.

Jemimah Wei: 25:05

a french fry or. You could the top and bite the end and just suck out the potato in the middle.

Jason Blitman: 25:12

I need to try this because I don't believe that. I don't believe that works. But you clearly tried it.

Jemimah Wei: 25:17

Go for it. It becomes very soggy by the end. But,

Jason Blitman: 25:19

Is it just a McDonald's fry or can any fry be eaten that way? Okay.

Jemimah Wei: 25:23

I think any fry can be eaten that way.

Jason Blitman: 25:25

Okay.

Jemimah Wei: 25:26

As a kid you have one tiny box of rice. You're really trying to draw it out for as long as possible.'cause the

Jason Blitman: 25:32

so true.

Jemimah Wei: 25:33

the moment when the box of rice end, it's like such a small tr it's like a, such a great tragedy for a small child. You're like,

Jason Blitman: 25:38

Yeah. Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 25:40

you're really trying to prolong this experience of eating a french fry. And the last way to eat a french fry is to. Like the top of the end, and then just like nibble the skin the joining skin and then just eat the skin.

Jason Blitman: 25:52

Oh my God. To be a fly on the wall while you were learning how to do all this. That's so funny.

Jemimah Wei: 25:58

You

Jason Blitman: 25:58

What

Jemimah Wei: 25:59

even the craziest thing. I have friends who like invented all kinds of secret menu items to McDonald's.

Jason Blitman: 26:04

invented secret menu items they need to be sponsoring this episode?

Jemimah Wei: 26:09

I know.

Jason Blitman: 26:11

Buy a bunch of stuff and like piece it put it all together. Oh, fascinating. What an interesting idea. Okay. Okay. This is the second episode where I have a very long conversation about french fries. What is the thing in your life now that you are drawing out in that way? When you were a kid, you didn't want the box of fries to end, but what is the, what is that thing now?

Jemimah Wei: 26:34

I think maybe currently, as we're recording this podcast, it's two weeks before my book comes out.

Jason Blitman: 26:38

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 26:39

I'm really trying to live in the moment. I think our conversation has naturally revolved around this idea of time. And one thing that I really wanna be able to do is be like, this is the time I'm living in and know exactly what I'm going through when I'm going through it. people keep asking me, are you excited about it? But coming out, are you dreading it? And I. I don't feel either way. I don't feel like it should come out faster or it should come out later. I just feel like I'm gonna meet it when it comes out. It's

Jason Blitman: 27:02

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 27:03

happens, it happens. That's not accidental. I had to very deliberately cultivate this relationship time because you grew up in a very competitive, very achievement oriented society. You're always looking for the next thing. I don't necessarily feel like I wanna live that way anymore. I don't wanna wake up 10 years from now and be like, those were the good times in my Were the precious times. There's an Nutella Ginsburg essay on this where she talks about, I think it's called Winter and a Bruise or something, and she talks about how these like torturous times that shared with her family. actually the most precious times of her life in hindsight, because of everything that happens to the family after that. And that always stayed with me because I don't want to live looking backwards all the time. I don't wanna live looking forward either. I wanna live with all three tenses and And I think that's interesting. I was at of Stana right before this. I was in California for two years and in a stagnant is its own magical thing. And a lot of it was sitting around people's backyards eating their fruit, which is amazing. Like you can just do that in California. And talking about writing and about what writers are concerned with. And one question, one of the segments asked me was, which two tenses you live in?'cause all writers can only live in two the past, the present, or the future. And I thought about that a lot, like moving forward and the way people responded. It also was very interesting. So I think, just to answer your question, I'm obviously very long-winded. Like I, I do want to draw out this, this feeling that I have right now. So maybe not the time I have right now, but the feeling I have

Jason Blitman: 28:32

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 28:33

Aware of my life where it's at other contours of my life, like the gratitude for having finished a book which took so long, like God bless, honestly, like often the world she goes by. And the feeling of freedom and excitement. That is that, that the book has, allowed me or gifted me this new relationship to my art where I can now move in a different direction. I can now explore different questions in different forms and. feeling is of being like, fully in my physical body and experiencing time this way, it's really magical because for so much of the process of writing a book and trying to get it published, you're, writers are neurotic, right? I'm neurotic. I was so anxious all the time. I did not enjoy being anxious. I don't wanna be anxious if I can't help it. So I do, I try and draw out for as long as I can, Of like really at home in my time and space.

Jason Blitman: 29:25

I love that. It's so funny that we were talking about how once upon a time you were a pescatarian, because there was a summer that I was a pescatarian as a challenge for myself. I was curious, could I do it for the summer? And when the summer was over, I. Appreciated how present it made me feel having to Think about my meals and what was, and just the way I was living, that I just kept extending it, my, my arbitrary deadline because I wanted to continue living in the present moment in that way.

Jemimah Wei: 30:00

Wait, so are you still a pescatarian now?

Jason Blitman: 30:02

it no, it didn't.

Jemimah Wei: 30:03

okay. I would've been so impressed if

Jason Blitman: 30:06

No.

Jemimah Wei: 30:07

it's hard. It's really

Jason Blitman: 30:08

But I appreciated the sort of discipline that. It gave me. But no, I was thinking that I imagine a lot of people these days think about television and binging television in that way, right? Like they, they wanna save an episode so they wait as long as they can before they watch the next episode of something.'cause we don't want that box of fries to end.

Jemimah Wei: 30:32

It's interesting you brought up television. I had to think about it a couple of years ago because we were I didn't grow up with television. Just putting that out there, like I didn't really watch TV growing up. It was a slightly later in life thing for me. And and so even though I did have a bit of that experience of watching a TV on air and then running to the bathroom during the commercial break and running back very much like of my like the majority of like when I was seriously looking at television was when streaming had come into play. And so I didn't have that experience for a lot of it. And then. during the pandemic Marvel released Wonder Vision. Did you watch that?

Jason Blitman: 31:06

I did.

Jemimah Wei: 31:07

I loved Wonder Vision and I was shocked that it was a weekly release format because I watched two episodes. I was like, oh I'm here for this. And it's okay, see you next week. And I was just in shock.'cause what do you mean see you next week? See you now. And.

Jason Blitman: 31:23

want instant gratification.

Jemimah Wei: 31:25

Now. No, but that was so interesting. I was like, oh, it's so true. The release of streaming and just like technologies that are designed around trying to feed what we want for, to give us instant gratification or Our relationship to gratification. And it makes sense that those technologies are developed that way because they're consumerist technologies. They are doing what is the most profitable for them, I, they are not. They're not like humanist technologies, like That living in this world, it is easy to go on autopilot. It's easy to just let life carry along. Like when is the next job milestone? When is the next season, when is the next, salary, paycheck coming in? When is the next rent due? What can I do to meet that milestone? and so it's easy to just go years of your life, like half asleep.

Jason Blitman: 32:10

Hmm.

Jemimah Wei: 32:10

That's why I feel so strongly about thinking about trying to move away from that, I think

Jason Blitman: 32:15

How do you get out of that?

Jemimah Wei: 32:18

I am ironically trying to develop more of a TV habit. I don't have so much of that habit. So last year I was like, I, my goal this year is to watch one TV show to its end. And that's like a very intentional goal I set for

Jason Blitman: 32:30

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 32:30

watch a TV series. And I did it.

Jason Blitman: 32:33

What did you pick?

Jemimah Wei: 32:34

I watched I have a really big girlfriend in Singapore. We hang out at each other's houses like every single weekend and sometimes more than that. So we watch culinary class walls together.

Jason Blitman: 32:42

Oh.

Jemimah Wei: 32:43

So fun. It's like this cooking television show. It's very it's intense. It's so good. It's

Jason Blitman: 32:47

Huh.

Jemimah Wei: 32:48

show and now we really wanna go eat all the food. And we, for the eight weeks of watching it together, suddenly we were all chefs. We were like, oh, I'm gonna slice my spring onions diagonally. I dunno. It's just like such a communal

Jason Blitman: 33:00

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 33:02

I find it hard to sit down and watch by myself. And then I, we also watch the Agatha all along

Jason Blitman: 33:08

I have not watched yet, but I do really wanna watch it.

Jemimah Wei: 33:10

Oh, you must, it's

Jason Blitman: 33:12

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 33:12

I think it's potentially better than Wonder

Jason Blitman: 33:15

Okay.

Jemimah Wei: 33:15

Vision is afflicted by the Marvel. The turn, hi, we're a Marvel show. Whereas Agather all along is very clearly like a standalone thing.

Jason Blitman: 33:21

Yeah. Interesting. All right,

Jemimah Wei: 33:23

only to itself, which is nice.

Jason Blitman: 33:24

So you were intentional about watching this TV show.

Jemimah Wei: 33:27

yeah, I like I spend a lot of time. With my friends and family, like an immense amount of time, either physically with them or talking to them or chatting with them on the phone, and that is not something I was always able to do because I was a really I was really an overachiever and I would work like three, four jobs at the same time I started working. My first job was at age of 14. I basically was always going for the next thing

Jason Blitman: 33:50

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 33:51

working really hard. And I think a lot of that is just like. It means that you only have 24 hours in a day. I was absent for a lot of things and I don't wanna live that way. And then when you're writing a book, it becomes. Like writing is an isolated activity, right? You have to be solitary while doing it, Nobody else can enter the space that you're in mentally, even if they're in the same room. and so those two things for me, for the longest time have been working on this book for such a long time as it started reaching the like. Five year mark, seven year mark, eight year mark. It became quite clear that it was this thing that had accompanied me through so much of my writing life, attempting to finish this book. I was like, I have to finish this book or I'll simply die. And but that is like a conflicting interest to wanting to spend as much quality time as possible with the people that I love. And so then I became ex, those. Navigating that relationship between those two things became really important to me.'cause it's not, I don't just wanna be a writer with a book out. Like I want to have a book out, but I also want to be a, I want the human being writer that I am who had created this book to also be the kind of person who has, is able to have those really valued relationships that are very important to me.

Jason Blitman: 35:00

So it sounds like it, it's really about being intentional.

Jemimah Wei: 35:05

Mm-hmm. I think so. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 35:06

Yeah. You've talked about your childhood a bit and just growing up and some of the things that happened and there's something that comes up about the concept of the atmosphere of childhood. Do you remember the atmosphere of your childhood? Like metaphorically.

Jemimah Wei: 35:25

Yeah, it was sweaty and I, as we have established, I do not like to sweat

Jason Blitman: 35:30

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 35:31

and think that was like one of the kind of like interesting craft challenges around reminding this book, which is I want to create a book that that is as true as possible to the lives of these characters. But I also want to create a book that reflects a reality that I love and I don't like to sweat, but if you write a book with Singaporean characters, they're all sweaty. And so I really was like trying to, have them be so sweaty. So that was like one of the, it's like a really dumb thing. Like it's obviously not a

Jason Blitman: 36:00

No, I don't think that's dumb at all. There's, it's that I think is so fascinating because for you to think about your childhood as being sweaty, but how intentionally you don't want all of your characters to just be sweaty all the time. That's so interesting.

Jemimah Wei: 36:17

Yeah, because, okay, so I'm a really like physical reader.

Jason Blitman: 36:20

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 36:21

read a book set in the desert and I'll feel itchy. I don't

Jason Blitman: 36:24

Hmm.

Jemimah Wei: 36:24

That feeling and I don't want to have that feeling when I read my own book either.'cause I am really conscious, like the thing about writing a book is this is insanely, I. authoritative move, it's saying to another person, like a reader that I've never met before, just give me your attention. Give me your time and give your entire brain space and

Jason Blitman: 36:39

Yeah,

Jemimah Wei: 36:40

Just give up your will come

Jason Blitman: 36:41

so rude.

Jemimah Wei: 36:42

And a lot of craft choices as you're designing a book and like revising it is so that keep the reader in that world for as long as possible. And then I'm thinking to myself. What is the priority of the scene of this sorry, arc of this chapter and it just not to make my reader uncomfortable or sweaty and be like, I wanna. I'm sweaty now and I don't wanna read this. It's like there are other things that I am more concerned with, and so how do I make this reading environment as hospitable to the reader as possible Them there for the more uncomfortable moments? So you're thinking really, you're weighing all those things, thinking like, how can I keep the reader engaged? Because you write a book for yourself

Jason Blitman: 37:17

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 37:18

activity for the longest time, and then at some point you start thinking about. I'm realizing this is gonna become a real book. It's gonna finish, it's gonna be, I'm gonna finish a draft. I'm probably gonna send it out. And then, so the relationship changes a little bit. It's not just, it's just, it's not just for me anymore. It's like, how

Jason Blitman: 37:32

Right.

Jemimah Wei: 37:33

every narrative strategy I know to keep the reader. From putting down the book and part of what you were saying earlier about time, like this TV show, I don't want it to end, I'm saving the TV show. That is also the relationship that we have with our readers. You hear readers talk about how much they love a book, it's not. It's quite rarely things like, oh, I love the turn of a phrase on chapter five. It's usually things like, I couldn't stop reading it. I couldn't put it down or I finished it so fast or I just didn't want it to end. And so it is an emotional response to your relationship with time that you are like creating this environment for as a

Jason Blitman: 38:07

Hmm.

Jemimah Wei: 38:07

And. All of that was definitely in the consideration as I was working on it. I wanna create this atmosphere of the immersive sense of being a child again and reading a book and being totally lost in a book. That atmosphere of the early pages, or the early chapters, or the early sections of the book, part of that was, I don't want to break the spell by feeling sweaty

Jason Blitman: 38:29

It's it's also interesting because you said it's readers aren't necessarily saying to you, oh, I loved this turn of phrase, or, I love this passage, or some, anything so nitty gritty. It's more big picture. There's a line about our dreams having to adjust to accommodate reality. That as an idea broke my brain a little bit. I will just go against what you just said about not picking something very specific by picking something very specific. Because it broke my brain. I don't often think about how our dreams need to be malleable Because dreams aren't real. And so we need to find the balance between dreams and reality and the way your turn of phrase was. Something about our dreams have to adjust to accommodate reality.

Jemimah Wei: 39:15

Thank you so much for reading so carefully and for picking that out. I love it when people do that because I. It just, it's such a testament, right? To how deeply you've read something that I've worked hard on, It's always very moving to me when that happens.

Jason Blitman: 39:28

Do you agree with that sentiment about dreams adjusting to accommodate reality?

Jemimah Wei: 39:32

I do think that we live in an insane reality that is potentially the worst timeline. Like we will break,

Jason Blitman: 39:39

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 39:40

don't I do think that the ability to be flexible or to adapt is like a soft skill that we don't talk about very much It's something I thought about a lot about well, writing this book, like this idea that we have all these streams and we have this vision of reality and our ability to ac assimilate new information and adapt instead of. Holding fast to what we want and then breaking when that doesn't happen. really important and it's a slightly inherited skill. It is a privilege, like the mental flexi flexibility and the mental like wellness that is needed to like withstand failure or disappointment is some is learned behavior. You learn it from watching people around you, from watching your parents or watching like a role models around you. And those people tend to have access to a different kind of. Like life experience maybe,

Jason Blitman: 40:33

Sure.

Jemimah Wei: 40:34

and and those, and so I do think that when I watch people move through the education system, there is a dexterity, like a mental dexterity that, that I think is like an inherited privilege to some extent. We talk a lot about the more visible, inherited privileges, like the people you know you have or the financial background you have, and all those things are extremely important. But having the to articulate reality of the way the world works and know how to recalibrate yourself with new information, I think it's also important.

Jason Blitman: 41:08

The idea of persona comes up in the book. Does Jemima have a persona Or is Jemima way a persona?

Jemimah Wei: 41:15

I don't know that anybody just has one persona. I. I think that we have multiple, we look, contain multitudes, we have multiple selves, and it's just which self is closer to the

Jason Blitman: 41:25

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 41:26

forward at that point in time, I think to myself, I was thinking about this'cause I, somebody else also asked me something similar, which is about one versus another self. But

Jason Blitman: 41:34

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 41:34

I think I was just thinking about it more deeply because of that question, and I don't really believe in the binary of the authentic self and the. Perform self. I think there is a range, and I don't necessarily think that the performed self is a false self. I think it is probably the version of yourself you want to see out there.

Jason Blitman: 41:51

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 41:51

start thinking of yourself in society as a person with mirrors around you, which is, I think basically what the internet is right now. It's like a giant mirror where you're constantly migrate, adjusting your behavior and checking yourself even when no one else is there. Are like. to move towards a version of yourself that you

Jason Blitman: 42:09

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 42:09

to believe in. I think the more important thing for me is being able to separate that relationship to your perceived self from the fact that empirically you are a self having that really healthy relationship that is really important.

Jason Blitman: 42:26

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 42:28

because perception doesn't change your empirical like eyes, nose, your, person. Personhood. And I think it's really important to see yourself as someone who is fully worthy of dignity and

Jason Blitman: 42:40

Mm.

Jemimah Wei: 42:41

Which is not something that, you would think that it's like the bare minimum, but it's not really something that, performance and audience is set up to encourage Really.

Jason Blitman: 42:50

That's so interesting and I recently had Katie Kitura on the show talking about audition and so much of the, I don't know if you've had a chance to read it yet, but so much of the book is about that, right? Like how we are constantly auditioning. For a role in our lives, in our own lives and how our own, persona on a daily basis can shift based on the costume we put on.

Jemimah Wei: 43:18

Yeah, but if you think about it, you know what is one of the core desires of a person is to be seen for who you are and loved for who you are. Not loved like blindly, right? Not whatever you do, it's fine. It's to be seen for all your flaws and all your nasty, its and to still be like, I accept you for who you are and I'm here with you through this time. And I do think that is like directly conflict thing with this sense of having to put up a persona all the time.

Jason Blitman: 43:43

Right.

Jemimah Wei: 43:44

And this book that I wrote I've always, I mean that it's about so many things, but I've always thought about it as a book about love, A really non-romantic love story.

Jason Blitman: 43:51

Sure.

Jemimah Wei: 43:52

Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 43:53

A question that you ask in the book, What occupies your imagination? I'm asking you. Yeah. Jemima, what occupies your imagination?

Jemimah Wei: 44:02

so currently I am thinking about parallel roles. I.

Jason Blitman: 44:06

Say more.

Jemimah Wei: 44:06

a lot of, okay, great. I've been reading a lot of fantasy.

Jason Blitman: 44:10

That's your favorite phrase. Say more.

Jemimah Wei: 44:13

phrase. I know. I love talking. I have this t-shirt that's like certified yapper.

Jason Blitman: 44:19

Tell me why is this, what's in your imagination.

Jemimah Wei: 44:22

Because I was thinking about like the different forms of narrative that we experience. And one that is really popular that we don't see as much in like pro literature, but I see a lot in. Japanese animation or in those like that traditional storytelling, like web comics is this idea of going into a different world, like the aka narrative. And so I was thinking like about that. It's type of portal fantasy. And And then I started asking, all of these stories that we have of like dreaming of alternate lives, dreaming of, and having the opportunity to realize that they tend to come at quite a young age, right? Think about Narnia,

Jason Blitman: 44:59

I was just gonna say Narnia. Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 45:02

literal children.

Jason Blitman: 45:03

Yeah.

Jemimah Wei: 45:04

Earlier in our conversation, I think this is an expansion of what I, what you asked me earlier about what I was thinking about with regards to freedom. I do Are the costs of freedom? What if, we had that parallel will offer to us at different stages in our lives. And, I don't know that I could walk away from my life right now. I was talking to my editor about this because. We were talking about books we've read recently, I've read Samantha Harvey's Orbital on the Plane right here. And I thought it was amazing and interesting for me specifically.'cause when I was a kid, I wanted to be an astronaut

Jason Blitman: 45:33

Oh.

Jemimah Wei: 45:34

Yeah. And I'm not sciencey, so that obviously never happened. She was like, why do you wanna be an astronaut? And I was like I don't know. I really like the idea of being alone for an extended period of time and being able to see the

Jason Blitman: 45:45

You would never be able to do that. There's no one to talk to.

Jemimah Wei: 45:48

I would talk to myself like I have I'm literally never bored. Okay. So I don't know if you can tell I have a DHD.

Jason Blitman: 45:54

Yes. Yes. Same, right? Yes.

Jemimah Wei: 45:58

And just this idea of being able to behold the world in That splendor from a weight instead of being on it, I think was very interesting to me as a child. And anyway, that never happened, but.

Jason Blitman: 46:09

Spoiler alert.

Jemimah Wei: 46:11

spoil that never happened, but there is no age limit to being an astronaut, as we have recently found out. So my editor was like, it's not too late. You could still be an astronaut. And I was like, I cannot, it's too late for me because I have deliberately an intentionally tethered my life to, so I cannot live this life. I the people in it too much.

Jason Blitman: 46:33

Hmm.

Jemimah Wei: 46:34

My chains and they're on this earth. So I'm not going to the moon. Who knows?

Jason Blitman: 46:40

Who never say never.

Jemimah Wei: 46:42

never say never. But honestly, I, yeah. Who knows what's on the moon. It's not gonna be me who discovers it. when thinking about what occupies my imagination, like recently, a lot of what I was thinking about is, you know, it's not just what lives are out there for us, but what are the costs of pursuing those lives, which is an extension of the question I pursue in this book, honestly. So that is something I've been thinking a lot about. I've been trying very deliberately to move my imagination away from this earth or like this reality we live in, because it's been terrible. It's been like truly awful.

Jason Blitman: 47:10

fair.

Jemimah Wei: 47:11

And so I'm thinking a lot about that. Um, I was also thinking a lot, recently and unwillingly about grief. I guess like part of the, like the cause of love is like loss and, not intentionally, I don't intentionally surround imagining like what it would be like to lose people. But, I have thought a lot recent, in recent years about the nature of grief and the way it manifests. Our relationship with non-speaking beings. So let's just sample out what's going on in this fun house.

Jason Blitman: 47:38

In our last few minutes together, the original daughter is an art rock book club pic. Congratulations.

Jemimah Wei: 47:47

I'm so happy.

Jason Blitman: 47:48

I have a question from our friends at Aard Rock Book Club

Jemimah Wei: 47:52

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jason Blitman: 47:54

here it is. Jen and Erin's sisterly dynamics are shaped by the fact that Jen is older. When Erin spending much of her life looking up to her until this abruptly shifts, was there ever a draft where Erin was the older sister?

Jemimah Wei: 48:09

No, but there was a draft where Aaron was a brother.

Jason Blitman: 48:14

What.

Jemimah Wei: 48:15

That was crazy behavior. I scraped that draft real quick, but that was like a whole year. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 48:22

A whole year of a brother.

Jemimah Wei: 48:24

Yeah. Well, I wasn't writing full time back then, so it was a big part. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 48:28

Oh, fascinating. Had it been a sister, and then briefly you were like, wait, let me see if it works as a brother. And then you were like, no, no, no, no, no. Jk.

Jemimah Wei: 48:36

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah,

Jason Blitman: 48:39

that's good. Inside Scoop.

Jemimah Wei: 48:41

I know. I know. I think it's so crazy right now when I think back on it, but yeah.

Jason Blitman: 48:47

thanks a rec book club for the question.

Jemimah Wei: 48:49

Oh, thank you.

Jason Blitman: 48:50

and everyone can go to ard rec book club.com and use the code gaze reading and get a book for$4. So there you go.

Jemimah Wei: 48:58

Woohoo.

Jason Blitman: 48:59

Um,

Jemimah Wei: 48:59

Thank you so much for having me. This is so fun. I love yapping about the book.

Jason Blitman: 49:04

Yap. Yap Yap. About the book everyone go get your copy of the original daughter. It's so beautiful and

Jemimah Wei: 49:09

you.

Jason Blitman: 49:09

out now. Wherever you get your books, have a great rest of your day.

Jemimah Wei: 49:13

bye.

Harper!: 49:14

Guest Gay Reader time!

Jason Blitman: 49:18

I have never had a fashion icon on the show, and the only thing that was acceptable for me to wear is my husband's captain.

Prabal Gurung: 49:30

I love it.

Jason Blitman: 49:31

I was like, this is the most absurd thing in my home. there's nothing else I could wear other. I was like, I'm either naked or wearing this.

Prabal Gurung: 49:40

Either is fine, either fine audience, right?

Jason Blitman: 49:43

Perfect. I also, I look at you, you have your racks set up behind you looking very profesh, very fabulous.

Prabal Gurung: 49:53

this is our showroom. This is where all the magic, the fittings, everything happened. So I was planning to do it at my home. Then I was like, I have to be at work. You know, who has the luxury of being at a, um, home and doing a podcast when you have to work?

Jason Blitman: 50:07

In the middle of the day. Right.

Prabal Gurung: 50:10

listen, I'm a sucker for romance novels I'm, like a big Jane Austen fan.

Jason Blitman: 50:15

Oh my god.

Prabal Gurung: 50:16

every version of like pride and prejudice. So, so for me, like my, like I am a sap, I cry at every romantic gestures

Jason Blitman: 50:25

You talk about loving, loving romance, Jane Austen probably. What are you reading?

Prabal Gurung: 50:31

right now there, I mean, I just finished, um, herand, Diaz's, uh, book, um, which I really love. Did you, have you read it? No,

Jason Blitman: 50:41

no, it's sitting on my shelf. I've heard wonderful things.

Prabal Gurung: 50:43

of the, I mean, thought it was brilliantly written, and I loved that book, and

Jason Blitman: 50:48

Yeah.

Prabal Gurung: 50:48

that and I picked up this book called Rejection, have you read it?

Jason Blitman: 50:54

I did.

Prabal Gurung: 50:55

So I'm like, almost towards the end of it, I, it started with me going like, ha ha, ha. Like, you know, being like, oh my God. Like, what? Like to, I'm like, whoa. Like,

Jason Blitman: 51:06

Yeah.

Prabal Gurung: 51:07

and so I've been like telling a few of my friends who've read and asking them like. Should I finish? Is this gonna be heavy? Like, is it, you know, like, I don't know where it's going. You know, in a sense it's, it's brilliantly written. It's

Jason Blitman: 51:17

Yes, yes.

Prabal Gurung: 51:20

yeah, but it's also telling of our times. You know, it's also that, and, and it's funny thing what happened was, like couple of weeks ago, I was holding the book and I was, um, at a, it happened twice to me. I was at both at different restaurants. I was carrying that book and I was walking in, and you know how in New York nobody says really like, hi, hello. Immediately someone across the table like, hi. Like, like, and I said hi and said, oh my God, have you finished that book? Okay. Everyone like, and, and then the other person was a, another one was say, have you read the book? What did you think of? And you know, it's almost like, let's say you wear a, like a t-shirt with a, you know, somebody loves like, let's say Britney, and they're like, oh my God, I love you with

Jason Blitman: 52:04

Uhhuh.

Prabal Gurung: 52:05

It was like the book had, and I was like, you what? I'll take, a connection that happens through literature rather than anything else,

Jason Blitman: 52:14

Yes. Oh, I love that.

Prabal Gurung: 52:16

yeah. So I, I mean, new Yorkers who are notorious, including myself, notoriously, let's say reserved and stoic and unfriendly, um, were really reaching out because there was a connection. So it really took touch a nerve. So do you think I, should I finish it or not?

Jason Blitman: 52:32

Well, here's what I'll say. The first half of the book, I loved, I could, I, I laughed it, it, it spoke to me. And the second half of the book, I was like, what the hell am I reading?

Prabal Gurung: 52:44

Yeah. So it's, it's been that for me too,

Jason Blitman: 52:47

Yeah.

Prabal Gurung: 52:47

time they were like, moments of it, like, I know, or I could see my, like, all we, we all have that, you know, glimpses of it.

Jason Blitman: 52:53

Yeah.

Prabal Gurung: 52:53

I was just like, it's getting into this. And I'm just like, whoa. Like I'm reading it. I'm like, wait a second, what?

Jason Blitman: 52:59

Uhhuh Uhhuh. That's so funny. You know, and, and part of why I do this guest gay reader series is because you know someone like you, like, yes, you have a book coming out, but, but I'm sure on, on a regular basis you are not certainly publicly talking about books that you're reading and for you to be read. You're reading rejection, you're reading trust. These are books that are like meaty and in the world and you have people coming up to you asking you about what they see in your hands. Like it books really bring people together and I find that so cool.

Prabal Gurung: 53:29

Yeah. You know, it's so funny because, I, I've always believed that books have a way of finding you, and also when what you read and what you, especially what you hold. There might be books that you read and you keep it at home, but what you carry with you,

Jason Blitman: 53:43

Yeah.

Prabal Gurung: 53:44

you carry it. I may be crazy, but I feel like it's a way of revealing who you are, right? So it's very intimate and personal, what you read, and especially you hold onto, because as, as unexpected as it was, it's, it opens up dialogues from different kind of people,

Jason Blitman: 54:00

Yeah.

Prabal Gurung: 54:01

um, people judging? Are people, you know, do you know what I mean? It's, it's, When you are a relatively, like, let's say public persona, like, you know, per personality, your private moment is a public private moment.

Jason Blitman: 54:14

Mm-hmm.

Prabal Gurung: 54:15

on Instagram and everything, but then when you let, let's say I, you know, my, one of my favorite restaurants in, in New York City is this Japanese restaurant called Omen. You know, that's where I, um, met this woman. Like, you know, when I went with my book and everything and I was actually giving my memoir to a friend of mine who's a musician, and I had like, you rejection also.

Jason Blitman: 54:33

Uh

Prabal Gurung: 54:33

she, that's when she was like, oh, whatcha reading, rejection? Oh my God. What? She happened to be a publisher also, you know?

Jason Blitman: 54:38

Oh, how funny.

Prabal Gurung: 54:39

started chatting and then she said, what's the other book you're holding? I was, I kid you not, I'm not someone necessarily shy, but I was like, so like, I was like, oh, like, um, well, um, I say it's a book. And I said, then she like, let see it. And she, then she, and then I said, it's my memoir. And she said, oh my God. I could not even bring myself to say it out because it, it was just

Jason Blitman: 55:01

Yeah.

Prabal Gurung: 55:02

I'm not, you know, I'm not prepared for that because I don't live in your world. So I don't know, you know, I just know my books have been my friends and so many ways, like, you know, have saved me in so many situations, you know?

Jason Blitman: 55:13

Wow. I love that.

Prabal Gurung: 55:16

it's like your best friend that nobody knows, you know?

Jason Blitman: 55:18

Yes. Well, it's so, I'm, I say this on every episode. I'm a late in life reader. I didn't really start reading until five or six years ago. And similar, I feel the same way. And I, and I mention books to people and it opens up a conversation and it changes so many things and it really brings people together. And I can only imagine, you know, the difference between holding your book at a restaurant and someone asking you about it versus, versus it's, it, it's in the store, someone's buying it, you're removed from it. It does, you've put it out into the world and it's different.

Prabal Gurung: 55:51

And, you know, and the, the hope is. The romantic in me. Oh. And, and because I discover books, you know, like, and so the romantic in me wants to, wants people to find this book over the period of time. And

Jason Blitman: 56:05

Yeah.

Prabal Gurung: 56:06

it touches them or like, you know, it, you kind of like resonates with them. But the world we live in, you know, there's a, um, you know, it comes with the whole purpose of like, no longer do we live in a world where people aren't distracted. So you almost have to bring forward, Hey, this is what I've done. Pay

Jason Blitman: 56:23

Mm.

Prabal Gurung: 56:23

to had I written fiction, it might have been easier for me,

Jason Blitman: 56:27

Yeah.

Prabal Gurung: 56:27

It's a memoir. So a lot of it's really personal and almost like you're really completely naked in front of people

Jason Blitman: 56:37

Yeah.

Prabal Gurung: 56:37

um, um, you know, so it's been like really, um, ups and downs, like emotionally,

Jason Blitman: 56:44

I can only imagine. I mean, I want to hear how you fell in love with Jane Austen, but we're, we're on the journey. Let's talk about your book, walked Like a Girl, is out now. even the title is Vulnerable. obviously it was your memoir. is there like a, what is the heart of the story, would you say?

Prabal Gurung: 57:02

Walk Like a girl, I would say is, um, it's a part memoir, but mostly a love letter to people who've always felt like they've been seen, heard, marginalized, people who've felt like they've often get there, not enough or too much,

Jason Blitman: 57:21

Hmm.

Prabal Gurung: 57:22

people who feel like their existence somehow. I I've made to feel like it doesn't matter. It is,

Jason Blitman: 57:29

Hmm.

Prabal Gurung: 57:29

for them, it's a story for them. Walk like a girl is to like walk through life with, courage and resilience and softness and defiance and grace and, it's a making this wonderful roadmap back to yourself,

Jason Blitman: 57:42

Hmm.

Prabal Gurung: 57:42

you know? And I would say that to me is what walk like a girl is, and, and walk like a girl is also this over the period of time, like through my own life, realized that feminine leaning ideas, feminine leaning people are the. Ultimate saviors for the mankind and for people

Jason Blitman: 57:58

Hmm.

Prabal Gurung: 57:59

I've realized that and when I say about feminine leaning ideas and people, it's the, it's not necessarily gender. It's this idea of empathy, thoughtfulness. It's about, caring about each other, like the environment, accountability, everything that we talk about, because for the longest period of time we've been conditioned to think that success has one kind of narrow definition, which is you have to have a house in here. You have to house this again, you have to be like this. it's very heteronormative idea of adhering to that idea of masculinity to me, which almost feels like a caricature, you know? I wanted to share the story of mine that because of my leaning towards my, feminine side and matriarchy and celebration of it, could save myself.

Jason Blitman: 58:40

Hmm.

Prabal Gurung: 58:41

I don't wanna be a teacher. I just want to share. And, Part of it was like, uh, wow, like, you know, trauma, uh, things that you go through, you never, it never leaves you,

Jason Blitman: 58:52

Yeah.

Prabal Gurung: 58:52

you find better tools to deal with it, like sharing the story, talking to you, like talking to my therapist, talking to my friends, but the pain is pain, you know? And, um, it really, shook my core and, it really, um, like it really, made me really rethink about what was, what was important to me, the values, and then also come to terms with the thing that. Because if, when you live in New York, when you're an entrepreneur and when you're like someone who's like constantly doing things and achieving things, wanting to achieve things, what you do is you set aside, all right, I'm going to give myself an hour to feel sorry, and then move on. Like,

Jason Blitman: 59:28

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Prabal Gurung: 59:30

Pain doesn't work like that.

Jason Blitman: 59:31

Right.

Prabal Gurung: 59:32

You know, pain, like, you know, I could be sitting in somewhere and something triggers like, you know, you all of a sudden you're like thinking about, whether it's your father or whether it's your lost love or things that, you know, brings

Jason Blitman: 59:43

Mm-hmm.

Prabal Gurung: 59:43

you just have better tools to deal with it. I was always scared of being unhealed, you know, but now in Nonhealing I've found myself

Jason Blitman: 59:54

Hmm.

Prabal Gurung: 59:55

Nonhealing. I've found that that as, as much as success and joy is part of me, so is my,, struggles different sides of the same coin,

Jason Blitman: 1:00:04

Yeah.

Prabal Gurung: 1:00:05

you know, and, and, yeah.

Jason Blitman: 1:00:06

I think about things like that as a snowball, right? Like those things don't go away. They're just deeper inside of us, right? And we grow and, and, and maybe there will be something that triggers those feelings and maybe it'll be a sense memory. You'll smell something. Or you'll see someone who reminds you of someone from your child, right? Who knows how that will sneak up on you. Um, thank you for sharing all of that. I think it's, uh, something that we don't always think about when someone's.

Prabal Gurung: 1:00:33

yeah. Because you, I also don't wanna, this is one of the reasons I initially I was going to be like, in all this, like, you know, press stuff, I was gonna be like, this, this, this, you know, like, you know, you know how the usual stuff.

Jason Blitman: 1:00:43

Uh

Prabal Gurung: 1:00:43

But, you know, a couple of months ago, like, you know, there was this, like, designers, like my peers also, and some, like new designers, they, keeps on saying to me like, you make it, make it seem so joyful and easy, know?

Jason Blitman: 1:00:55

Mm. Make it, make the work seem joyful and easy, or make or make the book seem joyful and easy

Prabal Gurung: 1:01:00

no, no. Make

Jason Blitman: 1:01:01

work. Yeah. Just in general. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Prabal Gurung: 1:01:04

What I do. Like my being like, you know, it seems like,

Jason Blitman: 1:01:06

Yeah.

Prabal Gurung: 1:01:07

just like, that is true and my life from the outside looks like bright and bold and, you know, exciting, but the joy is hard earned,

Jason Blitman: 1:01:17

Mm-hmm. And takes work.

Prabal Gurung: 1:01:19

yeah, it takes work. And I, and I kind of didn't wanna, what I realized, what I put on Instagram and everything, I was just like, wait a second, have I been perpetuating this idea of this like, you know, toxic positivity, constantly happy, constantly fabulous. You know, I'm just like, wait a second. There's a, I need people to understand that nothing comes to anyone that easy.

Jason Blitman: 1:01:40

Mm-hmm.

Prabal Gurung: 1:01:41

Especially something that feels, that something that you feel like, you know, it can move, can move the needle for you and for someone else. It is, it takes work, you know? And so I just didn't want people to think just because I don't talk, I. Too much about my past and my pain. This is the first time I'm talking about it. Just so that you know, and, um, doesn't mean making it, I've had it easy. That's what, you know.

Jason Blitman: 1:02:02

Yeah, listen, I fully understand that, and I am someone who makes a choice to. I choose to be happy, I choose to be joyful. I choose to be glass half full. Um, and that doesn't come easily because all of the bad things are still there. And it's, and it's not ignoring them, it's choosing to focus on other things, um, and then navigate it in, in a way that works. Yeah,

Prabal Gurung: 1:02:32

And what you're just saying is it's so right. It's like, it's, it's not that your challenges are not there, you know, it's just like, it's the same thing for me too. It says like,

Jason Blitman: 1:02:39

yeah,

Prabal Gurung: 1:02:40

you to know the book is about this. I want you to know what I've been through. And it's no different from someone else. Like so many of us, so many queer folks of

Jason Blitman: 1:02:49

yeah.

Prabal Gurung: 1:02:50

just queer folks. What I want people to understand is, despite of all those challenges, you can still choose joy.

Jason Blitman: 1:02:56

Yeah.

Prabal Gurung: 1:02:56

it's, it can be hard, sometimes it cannot be like, you know, achievable for like different people and everything, but I, I chose that. Doesn't mean it was gonna work for you,

Jason Blitman: 1:03:04

Mm-hmm.

Prabal Gurung: 1:03:06

and not denying the challenges in a world that constantly only interested in celebrating success,

Jason Blitman: 1:03:15

Mm.

Prabal Gurung: 1:03:15

you know,

Jason Blitman: 1:03:16

something that I've been asking everyone, in a time to amplify our loved ones and our friends and people that mean so much to us. If you were to die tomorrow Who would you choose to delete your search history on your computer? Who do we trust with our life and our secrets?

Prabal Gurung: 1:03:43

Hmm. Actually I have a lot of friends and, and, okay. I would say, I'll start with my brother and my sister, who are my best friends, my sister, just so that my sister lives in, in Katmandu. My brother lives in Mumbai. He is a film director. My sister's a writer,

Jason Blitman: 1:03:58

Oh my God. What a family.

Prabal Gurung: 1:04:01

They're like my, like I always say, somebody asks me to jump from like 50 50th floor, and if they say, my brother and my sister are holding the thing, I'll do it. You

Jason Blitman: 1:04:10

Oh.

Prabal Gurung: 1:04:11

my, they're, and like, they're my best friends and they're the reasons why, like you, they're my, honestly, they're my moral compass. They're my like, you know, kind of like my standard of like humanity. And then I have like really good friends. I'm so fortunate, honestly, like, and I'm Thank you for asking that because I've never thought about this. Thank you for asking, because it's made me just realize how abundant my life is. I just realized that I didn't even realize it till, because I sometimes, you know, like, you're like, oh, friends, this and that. I don't wanna bother. Like you think I'm like, I have actually, and then I have like more than, God, I have more than 10

Jason Blitman: 1:04:47

Wow.

Prabal Gurung: 1:04:49

like,

Jason Blitman: 1:04:49

That you can rely on for something so important like that.

Prabal Gurung: 1:04:52

like, oh my God, thank you so much for asking this because. I had, I didn't even, oh, oh my God. Like, I'm gonna cry. Because I didn't even realize, um, like, and I didn't realize that, um, my life was so full.

Jason Blitman: 1:05:07

Mm

Prabal Gurung: 1:05:08

because not because of everything that outside accolades or anything like that, or the book, it's just because I'm like so loved by my friends, you know? And I have that. And I grateful. I'm so grateful, and I'm so grateful to you. I'm honest to God. Like, I'm glad you asked me

Jason Blitman: 1:05:25

oh.

Prabal Gurung: 1:05:26

I never thought, I never thought, I'm like, you know, oh my God, thank.

Jason Blitman: 1:05:31

Of course. No, listen, I, it, it was something that was asked on a TV show and it had me thinking about the, the people in my life. And, you know, it's not asking someone to give you a ride to the airport, right? Like, that could be tedious or inconvenient for someone. But when you really need someone, you know, deleting your search history, I don't want people to know all those secrets. Who, who am I gonna trust with that? To have a moment to pause and think about those people in your life. I, uh, always like a good reason for that.

Prabal Gurung: 1:05:59

Wow. is a really good question. You

Jason Blitman: 1:06:02

Thank you.

Prabal Gurung: 1:06:04

I was honestly, when I was like, you started our conversation, I didn't know where it was going to go. But again, I was, I like, I knew we have this conversation, but I didn't, it just made me like for more like made me internalize like, you know, like as I said, like how abundant my life is and how many things my God, you know,

Jason Blitman: 1:06:25

Well,

Prabal Gurung: 1:06:26

this is the thing about living in this capitalist world, sometimes like, you know, you are like so conditioned and accustomed to, you know, associating yourself with the idea of success that is based on their idea.

Jason Blitman: 1:06:42

yeah.

Prabal Gurung: 1:06:42

know, like, you know this all big, shiny better and, and. I had been in my own way, a victim of that, a conditioned in that, you know, like being like, have I done enough? Have I done enough? Have

Jason Blitman: 1:06:54

Mm-hmm.

Prabal Gurung: 1:06:55

done it? Constantly feeling like that. And that question really made me realize, if nothing else, I'm grateful that the friends that I chose are solid ones. Solid ones.

Jason Blitman: 1:07:06

I love that. Thank you for going through that journey with And shout out to your brother and sister. I, my, my two sisters. I'm very close with them too. And I think they would, they would be high on my list. Yeah.

Prabal Gurung: 1:07:17

yeah. There's nothing. I love them so much because they're such good people,

Jason Blitman: 1:07:23

Yeah.

Prabal Gurung: 1:07:23

good people. People with integrity,

Jason Blitman: 1:07:28

Mm. I mean, my one, certainly one of my sisters would, first, they'd read everything first and then delete it.'cause she's nosy. But she would still do it. She would read it first, but she would still do it Pablo, this has been so fun. I could talk to you all day. I, I do really wanna hear how this Jane Austen thing came to be. I love that you are such a reader.

Prabal Gurung: 1:07:50

I'm really enjoying this conversation, so let's just go.

Jason Blitman: 1:07:55

Yeah.

1:07:56

and this is just the beginning of the conversation. Go check out the rest on the gays reading Substack. It is such a delight to chat with P. Thank you so much. Also, thank you to Jemima Way. Make sure to check out the original daughter and walk like a girl. Both are out now. Original daughter. You can get on Art Artwork Book club using the code gays reading at checkout for only$4. Alright everyone, those are all the things. Have a wonderful rest of your day. Bye.