0:04

Gaze reading where the greats drop by trendy authors. Tell us all the who, what and why. Anyone can listen Comes we are spoiler free. Reading from stars to book club picks we're the curious minds can get their picks. Say you're not gay. Well that's okay there something everyone. Hello and welcome to GA's Reading. I'm your host Jason Blitman, and in the almost two years that I've been hosting GA's reading, this is the very first time I'm recording an introduction with my husband in the room, and I'm feeling very self-conscious right now, but that's okay. We're all in this together. Each guest on today's episode is a, doesn't need an introduction sort of guest, and I am elated that they are all here with me today. First up, I have Jonathan Van Ness and Julie Murphy talking about their book, let Them Stare. And my guest, gay reader today is Queer Icon, Allison Bechtel, uh, who shares what she's been reading, but also talks about her new. Graphic novel spent. All of their bios are in the show notes. It's fun to share that on the gaze reading Substack. I just dropped a pride guide for a non exhaustive list of my top picks for pride. Top picks for pride. It's a lot of plosives into the microphone. Sorry about that. The guide is free online, and if you subscribe to the Substack, you could download a PDF of the guide. So the link to that is in the show notes and also in the Link tree on Instagram. So you could follow us on Instagram. We are at Gaze Reading. We're on Blue Sky, we are on YouTube. You could watch this episode over on YouTube. And as always, if you like what you're hearing. Please share us with your friends. Follow us on social media, uh, and like, and subscribe to Gay's Reading wherever you get your podcast. So you will be the first to know when a new episode drops, just like this one right now. And so all of that said, please enjoy Jonathan Ness, Julie Murphy and Allison Bechdel.

Julie Murphy: 2:19

a very small gay world,

Jason Blitman: 2:21

It's a very small gay world. Speaking of gay world, who I'm, I'm in Idlewild at an Airbnb right now.

JVN: 2:27

what a sentence.

Jason Blitman: 2:28

There has never been a gay person who has stayed in this room because the lighting would not be this.

Julie Murphy: 2:34

So bad

Jason Blitman: 2:35

I am so mad about it. Anyway, I'm gonna talk to you both like this.

Julie Murphy: 2:40

Okay, perfect.

Jason Blitman: 2:42

welcome to Gay's Reading. I'm so happy to have you

JVN: 2:46

Thanks for having us.

Julie Murphy: 2:47

Yay.

Jason Blitman: 2:48

to talk about your delightful, delicious novel. Let Them Stare by Julie Murphy and Jonathan Ness, um, your debut together.

Julie Murphy: 3:00

Yeah.

JVN: 3:01

that's what I mean.

Jason Blitman: 3:02

Yes, I know.'cause you both are esteemed,

JVN: 3:05

and authors.

Julie Murphy: 3:06

Yeah.

JVN: 3:07

have we skated before independently? Yes. But it's like our debut as a team,

Julie Murphy: 3:12

Exactly.

JVN: 3:13

a

Jason Blitman: 3:13

tense.

Julie Murphy: 3:14

along the lines of like, like two, like divorce a coming together and having like that first child in like a new marriage. You know what I mean?

JVN: 3:24

You know what's more coming up for me, for some reason I think it's'cause it's the end of our,

Jason Blitman: 3:29

To her.

JVN: 3:29

end of our book tour.

Julie Murphy: 3:30

Uh.

JVN: 3:31

I think what's coming up for me is like blades of glory, but us and we're figure skaters and writers

Julie Murphy: 3:37

Yes.

JVN: 3:38

we are like novelists and Paris figure skaters, and we are just like skating the house down and

Julie Murphy: 3:46

Yes, exactly.

Jason Blitman: 3:49

You said recent divorcees and my mind immediately went to First Wives Club and the finale where you're both in your white dancing down the street.

JVN: 4:00

That's

Julie Murphy: 4:00

Oh my God.

JVN: 4:01

about your knee from this. Like before we started recording you guys, we learned that Julie took a mbo and that's why I was worried about the needs. It's like, what about our figure skating? What

Jason Blitman: 4:10

figure skating, the finale. I know.

JVN: 4:12

We got this.

Julie Murphy: 4:13

You know what? Here's the thing. My airport pickup was at 4:30 AM this morning brutal, and I almost fell like six times at the airport, so I knew it was coming for

Jason Blitman: 4:24

Mm.

Julie Murphy: 4:25

and at least I fell in the privacy of my own hotel room.

JVN: 4:28

Four 30 is find that anytime I have to do a car before 5:00 AM is when I feel. Like much. Ouch. Like even if

Jason Blitman: 4:39

Uh,

JVN: 4:40

five, it's like fine. Like I got this like after five it's like fine. But it's like when it's like, when it's like those three 40 fives, like four 30, it's like, ow.

Jason Blitman: 4:50

This is a safe space. We can be tired on gay's reading. It's fine.

Julie Murphy: 4:54

Yay.

JVN: 4:55

didn't have that really call today. I was,

Jason Blitman: 4:57

well, Julie did, she could be tired on the.

JVN: 5:00

I had a I o'clock flight, so I.

Jason Blitman: 5:05

Yes.

Julie Murphy: 5:06

Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 5:08

is, is on the verge of falling normal for you, Julie?

Julie Murphy: 5:11

No,

Jason Blitman: 5:12

Oh.

Julie Murphy: 5:14

I was just like stumbling around, like I had a, like an O'Hare layover today, also. Awful.

JVN: 5:21

What a.

Julie Murphy: 5:22

Yeah. I had a connection today I was like just stumbling around, like reading a book on my phone just like,

Jason Blitman: 5:32

Okay. Well,

Julie Murphy: 5:33

I know, well this is also maybe the problem, but I like could not function. I could, I didn't know how to have four limbs today. I just didn't.

Jason Blitman: 5:42

all right, but you have a beautiful wallpaper behind you

JVN: 5:46

the windbreaker is

Jason Blitman: 5:47

and the win.

JVN: 5:49

I dunno if we're using this video, but this windbreaker is like gorgeous.

Jason Blitman: 5:53

are folks, head on over to YouTube if you're listening. And you could see Julie's fabulous. Yes. What does it say? What is, what are, what are the words on the shirt underneath?

Julie Murphy: 6:01

oh, well,

Jason Blitman: 6:03

Oh,

Julie Murphy: 6:03

mean to brand place, but this is my, this is my company. Bittersweet.

JVN: 6:09

Who actually did this book?

Julie Murphy: 6:12

it's true. It's

Jason Blitman: 6:13

bittersweet.com. I assume? No.

Julie Murphy: 6:16

Something like

Jason Blitman: 6:17

I was giving you a plug. Google Julie Murphy. Bittersweet everyone. Um, I'm upset. So, Jonathan, we're both Aries and I did a, I'm, I've been on this like. Astrology kick recently. I don't know why. So Julie, I saw that you're a Scorpio and I was so curious to look at the professional relationship just because you guys did this fantastic Publisher's Weekly article about working together. So I'm gonna stick that in the show notes of this so everyone can go read about what the working relationship was like. But it says, Aries and Scorpio professionals are generally well suited to work together. Due to their complimentary strengths. S energetic and enthusiastic leadership along with Scorpio's strategic and analytical approach can create a powerful team. And I was

JVN: 7:01

Oh.

Jason Blitman: 7:01

gagged'cause that's what you basically said in the article.

JVN: 7:04

Oh my God.

Jason Blitman: 7:07

I.

JVN: 7:07

astrological like convert, like I used to like look like. I like because. My ultra religious upbringing. I used to think that astrology was like a doorway for the enemy. Like to come and, you know, just like take your soul like

Jason Blitman: 7:21

Oh

JVN: 7:22

But now I'm like, I had this like amazing astrologist on the podcast a few weeks ago and she like. I had one before and like, I really like, I mean, I like I, I like, I like, I was like, I was like into it,

Jason Blitman: 7:35

sure.

JVN: 7:36

like Elisa, I was like, and also Chanie, Chanie, Nichols and Elisa, both of them together. Just like, but it's like Elisa was a cute, and Chanie was like working me on Instagram for like, not personally, but just like,'cause I follow, you

Jason Blitman: 7:49

Interesting. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

JVN: 7:51

I wait, I don't wanna like commandeer, but. And you can tell me to shut up, but this is like, but do you know about the whole, like the difference between like your sun, your moon, and your rising?

Jason Blitman: 8:01

So I only recently did my, like, full chart, like literally two weeks ago. I had a guest who was like, you have to do it right now. So I did, and she sort of like did a little reading for me and I don't really fully understand all of it, but we need to, like, there's, I'm, I'm excited to do a deep dive.

JVN: 8:17

my neurodivergence really wants me to tell you.

Jason Blitman: 8:19

Yeah.

JVN: 8:20

okay, I'll just tell you guys really quick because I'm like obsessed. I just

Jason Blitman: 8:22

Tell me, tell us.

JVN: 8:24

so you're rising. Or excuse me. So your sun is like the thing that everybody talks about. So, but that's like how the world sees you.

Jason Blitman: 8:32

Mm mm

JVN: 8:33

Then your moon is like, your moon side is like how you feel on the inside, like. And then your rising is like how you interpret or like relate to the world. So it's kind of like how you like

Jason Blitman: 8:50

Oh.

JVN: 8:51

'cause it's like different than how you feel on the inside. It's like how you relate

Jason Blitman: 8:54

Like the compatibility of you and the world. I. Right.

JVN: 8:58

you relate to like the way I understood. It's like how you relate to your sun and your moon as well.

Jason Blitman: 9:04

Oh, this is very helpful. Thank you, Jian.

Julie Murphy: 9:06

Jonathan.

Jason Blitman: 9:07

Yes,

JVN: 9:08

I was like, I'm like an Aries Sun something, something. I

Jason Blitman: 9:14

right. I, yeah, yeah, I know. Me too. I have it like downloaded somewhere and I'll, I know, Julie, you need to like, you need your, you need what time you were born. It's like a whole thing.

Julie Murphy: 9:25

No, I've got it. I've done this so many times. So many of my friends are like woo woo bitches. You know what I mean? So I've done many times.

Jason Blitman: 9:34

JV n it's funny you say once you had someone on the podcast is when you sort of fully converted. For me it was the same with tarot. I was sort of like, oh, cute.

JVN: 9:44

I am kind of scared of that.

Jason Blitman: 9:45

Well, I, I know I had a very positive experience, so maybe that's, that's why. But then I had Michelle t on the podcast and she read my, she read my vibe check and it like, sort of changed my life. So

JVN: 9:58

What

Jason Blitman: 9:59

it you, part of it was like, you have a lot of ideas, but that's okay. Run with, run with them. That was like one of the things, there was, there were other things that were so succinct and true to that moment.

JVN: 10:14

Wait, what's your birthday again?

Jason Blitman: 10:15

April 6th.

JVN: 10:16

Oh my God. So yeah, we really are just like, we're so Aries. Ugh.

Jason Blitman: 10:20

I know. I'm like very Aries.

JVN: 10:22

So

Julie Murphy: 10:22

I like super Scorpio, like,

Jason Blitman: 10:26

Julie's looking. JVN, why don't you give the elevator pitch for Let them Stare?

Julie Murphy: 10:30

yeah, yeah. Okay. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

Jason Blitman: 10:32

We could talk. I we're gonna take this on so many journeys, but I also want people to know about the book.

Julie Murphy: 10:35

Yeah.

JVN: 10:36

was, when I was doing a live the other day, I was like, wow, Julie, this is so embarrassing. that cute thing called on the inside of the flap of the book again?

Jason Blitman: 10:46

The jacket

Julie Murphy: 10:47

The jacket copy.

JVN: 10:48

like the thing that we write on it.

Jason Blitman: 10:50

or the copy.

JVN: 10:51

Oh yeah, the jacket copy. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. Uh, um, yeah, I was like, I was like, oh, I'm just gonna read the jacket copies, elevator pitch.'cause this is like way better than what happens to like my neurodivergence, where I accidentally like say the whole like first six chapters. But basically this

Julie Murphy: 11:03

Mm-hmm.

JVN: 11:04

it's Sully is this like fierce, non-binary, gender non-con confirming, uh, kid from. Hers, Pennsylvania, and they're like kind of giving like a more self-actualized 18-year-old version of me, like now. But like, I wasn't that cool. Um, but like I wish I would've been. And so, uh, solely wants to get outta their hometown. At their graduation party the night before they're getting ready to leave, they, they deal with their last indiscretion from their family and they kind of tell everybody to kick rocks'cause they're leaving this dumb old town and they never have to see any of you people ever again we do. But then the next day, their internship that they had, like put all the eggs in that basket for gets pulled out from under them. They're stuck in their hometown with no backup plans and no money. Uh, then the little money that they do have, they go back to their old job at the store to try to like get their jo their job back. But they find this priceless bag, which could be worth like a quarter of a, like, so much money. No even knows to be honest. it's a lot. Uh, and uh, and, but, but, uh, they can't tell if it's like real or not. And, uh, so it's like my brain is not working right now, but anyway.

Julie Murphy: 12:08

Ghost. Ghost,

JVN: 12:10

Take it back

Jason Blitman: 12:11

They have the purse. Have the bag,

JVN: 12:13

today, and it's haunted by a drag queen from the fifties. So that's the elevator

Jason Blitman: 12:17

dot, dot dot. Chaos ensues.

JVN: 12:19

It's major. We love

Jason Blitman: 12:20

Yes.

Julie Murphy: 12:21

an elevator pitch. Like I only got to like floor six. That's how fast your elevator pitch was. Yeah, it was good.

JVN: 12:28

good. It was so fast

Julie Murphy: 12:28

Like a slow

JVN: 12:29

couldn't

Julie Murphy: 12:29

elevator, but

Jason Blitman: 12:30

Yes.

Julie Murphy: 12:30

floor seconds, floor.

Jason Blitman: 12:31

Right, right, right. It was a, it was crank

Julie Murphy: 12:34

Yeah,

JVN: 12:35

Oh my God. It's interesting that you say that because we were just talking about like drugs on the podcast that we like hadn't heard of for a long time and I was like, crank. Do you remember like

Jason Blitman: 12:45

where did go?

JVN: 12:46

everyone was so scared of it. And I

Jason Blitman: 12:48

Yes.

JVN: 12:48

like 10, 12. Yeah. Just being like, oh, what is this stuff? But I feel like one ever talks about that anymore.

Julie Murphy: 12:55

Yeah. Yeah.

JVN: 12:56

Thank God. Maybe it's been eradicated.

Jason Blitman: 12:58

Maybe do, did you get the crank vaccine?

JVN: 13:01

I got the,

Jason Blitman: 13:02

Yeah. Woo. Thankfully. Uh, okay. Uh, the, the note at the beginning, I don't know if this is in the finished copy of the book, but it's in the, the advanced copy, the note from the two of you.

Julie Murphy: 13:16

in the back of the book for the finished copy,

Jason Blitman: 13:18

Oh, great. Okay. It exists, right? Um, you say that grow where you planted was sort of your mantra for the beginning, for like your whole journey. Where did that come from?

JVN: 14:05

I mean. I think we both have like relationships to that phrasing from like growing up in salt of the Earth places where we grew up. But in my family, that was something that my stepdad used to say to me a lot, and it just was this, this idea of like, you go, there you are. And you can, just because you leave a place doesn't mean it's necessarily gonna be better.

Jason Blitman: 14:27

Mm.

JVN: 14:28

I, I think that was something that was so important for me to. That I wanted to tell in this story is like, create an interesting story where like, you do have a life that's even better than you thought it could be in your hometown.

Julie Murphy: 14:41

Yeah.

JVN: 14:41

thought that like remaining in my hometown would've been like the worst thing that could happen and my, you know, actual story, like I, I did like have to move home a few times and with each time I did it, was not. fun of an experience. And when I look back on it from this vantage point in my life, I missed out on some like really good moments with like grandparents and family members because I was so like, yuck out by me being there. And so I just was like, how do we make it cool to like, maybe not wanna leave where you're from, or at least that's not like the end of the world. And I was like, I'm gotta write a, a fiction novel about it,

Jason Blitman: 15:19

Yeah. Julia, is it the same for you?

Julie Murphy: 15:22

yeah. I think that, uh, you know, like. Places for sure, but also like trying to get to this point where like, I thought that my life would start if I looked like this, or I thought my life would start if I was in this kind of relationship, or if I had like these kind of belongings if I dressed a certain way. uh, I don't know, just some point in my mid twenties I just woke up and realized like, holy shit, this is it. This is what I've got. I've, you know, I'm like a. away through my life if all goes well, and, uh, this is, this is what I have and I, this could be the last day that I have any single day. so. Um, you know, my senior year of high school, I, my family lost our home and like my life was essentially uprooted and all of my friends went off to college and did bigger things and went to like or New York and all these places, and I was just stuck in Texas. And, uh, I just kept waiting for that moment.

Jason Blitman: 16:26

Mm-hmm.

Julie Murphy: 16:27

it never came because the moment never comes. The moment is fake. It's not real.

Jason Blitman: 16:32

Yeah. We're also all from places. I grew up in Florida and so we're all from places that like you might not want to go back to

Julie Murphy: 16:40

Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 16:41

for all sorts of reasons. I feel this very deeply. Um, it's funny, not funny, but interesting that you bring up. This is who you are and you know, why do you, you're never going to become something different. Um, some BTS, this is, this is a makeup recording we were supposed to record a few weeks ago, and I. Uh, what came out of, of that not happening at the last minute was me having a really interesting conversation about prepping for that conversation. I felt this crazy, weird need to like shower and shave and put on face cream'cause like, I'm gonna be in front of JVNI was. I had this thing in my mind to do that, and then I was like brushing my teeth, being like, I should be wanting to do this for myself. I should be, I should think that I'm gonna talk to JB N every day, but, but Right, Julie, it's sort of a version of what you're talking about, of just like, this is, for me, I only have the, I only have this skin I should be putting on sunscreen every day for me. So it was a really interesting like mantra moment and I talked to lots of people about that afterwards and how we do so many things for other people.

Julie Murphy: 17:49

It's so true. I, uh, just have to say that Jonathan and I worked on this book for three years and we had like weekly, sometimes biweekly zooms, and Jonathan has seen me as a real grease ball.

Jason Blitman: 18:01

Yes, that's okay.

Julie Murphy: 18:02

I do put on my, uh, my face for Jonathan and I do make my, make sure my hair is like a shampoo commercial. But then also Jonathan has seen the worst of it too.

JVN: 18:15

I mean, I feel it's. I like, I love that we're like going here because I was like also thinking about this like random thing this morning about this very thing which like as Queer Eye has evolved and it's like been so long. I was thinking about like when I first got the show and how I really wanted to like not do such dramatic makeovers and I've always tried to like see beauty in people, make sure that people already knew that they like were beautiful, like, and they didn't need a makeover to be celebrated and they like were already stunning and I really wanted to like. the whole of beauty in like a different way, in like a way that I hadn't seen. And even though I did that and still do that for nine seasons, I still every day got many. Were like, oh my God, I was so nervous to meet you'cause, and I was like, do I seem like a judgmental bitch on the show? I do try to seem really like nonjudgmental.'cause I always want so.

Jason Blitman: 19:07

Honestly, I,

JVN: 19:10

I get from people like the, they feel this pressure when they're like gonna meet me and I just wanna go on the record and say, I always think people are so cute,

Jason Blitman: 19:17

it's actually funny'cause iry

JVN: 19:18

unless you're a Republican. And then you have like,

Jason Blitman: 19:20

and then you're not cute. Yeah, yeah, right.

JVN: 19:22

but even then sometimes I'm like.

Jason Blitman: 19:24

Well, but,

Julie Murphy: 19:25

don't lie. Sometimes you

Jason Blitman: 19:27

but, but there, their soul is.

JVN: 19:31

but that's a different story.

Jason Blitman: 19:32

That's a what?

JVN: 19:33

true. You know what I mean? But like, I, I more mean like, just like the kind of frumpy ones. Like, I'm like, oh, like you've just been exposed to misinformation.

Jason Blitman: 19:41

Sure.

JVN: 19:42

you know, so even, because like sometimes I gotta work with them

Julie Murphy: 19:46

Yeah.

JVN: 19:46

oh,

Jason Blitman: 19:46

yeah.

JVN: 19:48

poor thing. Like you

Jason Blitman: 19:49

No, I have to, I have to say it is, it is less about feeling judged and more about like proving that I was listening.

Julie Murphy: 19:58

Yes. Like I.

Jason Blitman: 20:00

Yes. I listened to you when you said to, you know, trim the mustache every day. It's about like,

JVN: 20:06

that you wanted to wear sunscreen. That part's really good. So I

Jason Blitman: 20:08

yes. Right. Exactly. That's my point. It's like, you know, I was listening. I took what you were saying and, and almost like a teacher, I wanted to prove myself.

JVN: 20:17

and you're so cute. So you're doing so

Jason Blitman: 20:18

Stop it. No, it's not about, it wasn't about judgment. It was about proving that I was a good student.

JVN: 20:24

about when people say that. I'm like, do they think that I'm gonna like, I think they're so cute.

Jason Blitman: 20:28

No.

JVN: 20:29

like coming in with like full Kelly Y. Conway,

Jason Blitman: 20:32

Right.

JVN: 20:33

interesting. Where's she been? Much quieter this administration.

Julie Murphy: 20:37

Yeah. Yeah.

JVN: 20:38

God. But now we have like Caroline Levitt, which is like, that's like, oh you guys,

Julie Murphy: 20:46

What?

JVN: 20:46

it's like the substance is Caroline. Love it. Conway on the substance.

Julie Murphy: 20:54

Oh my God.

JVN: 20:55

we ever seen any of them in the same room at the same

Jason Blitman: 20:59

I don't know that we have

Julie Murphy: 21:00

Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 21:02

You're onto something.

Julie Murphy: 21:03

Yeah.

JVN: 21:03

that down. I think that's.

Jason Blitman: 21:05

Wait, this is a hilarious segue because you, I was gonna say you're like Sherlock Holmes, but really what you are is like Harry the Spy. Bye. Everyone needs to watch this on YouTube because the face that the both of you just made. Um, okay. So I read that Harriet, the spy in your note that Harriet, the Spy was one of the things that YouTube bonded over. The amount of people that I've had on the show who have talked about Harriet, the spy as a formative experience, especially as a young, queer person and how queer coded it is, blew my brain. Was that true for you?

Julie Murphy: 21:39

Jonathan was the one that like brought we, a lot of the things we talked about were like Harriet, the Spy Now, and then Casper. Those were like some of like the early inspirations for this for sure.

Jason Blitman: 21:50

Yeah,

JVN: 21:51

I think because like that for me with Harry, the spy is like gully. Like Gully was like just, I mean, I always like had a soft spot for a babysitter. Like I always like loved a, a good babysitter and gully just like, oh my God. And rip our little young

Jason Blitman: 22:06

I know.

JVN: 22:07

leaves and like we'll even come back

Julie Murphy: 22:10

Hi.

JVN: 22:10

to move under her next family.

Jason Blitman: 22:12

I know I just had Rosie O'Donnell on the show and I was like, Goey.

JVN: 22:18

Wait, can I not to just, this is kind of like the meetings when me and Julie would just have been like, duking it out, like

Jason Blitman: 22:23

Yeah.

JVN: 22:24

just like the Neurodivergence is just on 20, but

Jason Blitman: 22:27

JVN. Do not apologize for yourself.

JVN: 22:29

such a good story. Julie Murphy, I think you remember the day that this happened. Are you ready for this story?

Julie Murphy: 22:34

I'm ready.

JVN: 22:35

I wonder if you will know what it is before I tell you. Unless I never told you this, in which case you will know.

Julie Murphy: 22:40

Okay.

JVN: 22:41

Okay, so it's like of 2024. I'm in Malibu. I was there like, I was like in town.'cause like I have to like, whatever. I'm in LA for like work. I go to Nobu because I never go to Nobu. Who goes to Nobu. But this one day I'm like with my husband and like me and my best, my other best friend. Were like, let's go to Nobu. So we go to Nobu.

Julie Murphy: 23:03

I love.

JVN: 23:05

I, we never go to Nobu. Like, I'm like, who do I think I am? Kendall Jenner. I don't go to Nobu.

Jason Blitman: 23:09

They're not sponsoring this episode.

JVN: 23:10

So I look up and Ricky Lake and Rosie O'Donnell walk in right past me, and they go to sit down at like three tables away. And like, I don't really love it. Like I, I just it's fine if you wanna come up to me when I'm eating whatever. Like, I, but like, it's like kind of a, you know, it's like when you're eating with like friends, it's like whatever. But I'm like, fuck, it's Rosie O'Donnell. Like, I'm gonna have to go say hi. I'm like, not gonna ask for a picture, but I'm definitely gonna have to

Jason Blitman: 23:33

Yeah.

JVN: 23:34

play the like, oh yeah, I'm like that girl from

Jason Blitman: 23:36

Do you know what would've happened if you did ask her for a picture?

JVN: 23:39

I was just too scared to

Jason Blitman: 23:41

No. Do you know what would've happened? She would've said No, boo.

JVN: 23:44

Oh, thank God. So, thank God I didn't ask. I go

Julie Murphy: 23:47

You get it.

JVN: 23:49

oh my God. I don't get it. I don't get it. I didn't get it. I, didn't,

Jason Blitman: 23:54

Thank you, Julie. Thank you.

JVN: 23:57

I was like, so, I was like, so I was like. I was like, hi, nice to meet you, whatever. So they were really nice. So then I'm walking back and I look up and I see all these like secret service agents around our table and I'm like, that's like, what are all these like people talking in their wrists for? And then I turn to my right and who's standing there? Hunter Biden Honey Hunter Biden and his like 2-year-old. And nice woman whose name escapes me. Whose name I wish I knew off the top of my

Jason Blitman: 24:29

Mrs. Hunter Biden,

JVN: 24:30

Yes.

Jason Blitman: 24:31

right?

JVN: 24:32

so, yeah, so it's me, hunter Biden and Rosie O'Donnell, all and Ricky Lake, all at Nobu on the same day in July. It was like so crazy.

Jason Blitman: 24:40

Oh my God.

JVN: 24:41

I was like, I'm never gonna be the same. Like, that was the craziest lunch of all time. Like Hunter Biden, Rosie O'Donnell, Ricky Lake, at Noble at the same time. Isn't that wild?

Julie Murphy: 24:51

That is wild. And Ricky Lake, honestly is the one that I would be like Love, but, uh, Ricky Lake would've had me

Jason Blitman: 25:00

What, what was it about Ricky Lake that does it for you?

Julie Murphy: 25:03

Oh, hairspray.

Jason Blitman: 25:04

Yeah, yeah. I didn't wanna assume, but you know, we do love,

Julie Murphy: 25:09

I'm a fat girl who loves queer shit.

Jason Blitman: 25:12

right? Yeah, yeah. And mean, I just, were they, did they both have their microphones at the table? Is that how they and their little cue cards? That's so cute. Oh, I love that.

JVN: 25:26

You really never know who you're gonna see.

Jason Blitman: 25:28

And here I am. My mouth is watering. Being like, okay, what did you order? That's what I want to know. I don't Who cares about the rest of it?

JVN: 25:34

like having like a really nice tea. Like there

Jason Blitman: 25:36

Oh,

JVN: 25:37

delicious like tea. And then after like two of those, I was like, who am I kidding? And then I did get a cocktail. I can't

Jason Blitman: 25:43

oh yeah. Good for you.

Julie Murphy: 25:45

like this crazy crispy tuna appetizer

Jason Blitman: 25:49

Ooh.

Julie Murphy: 25:50

and die for.

Jason Blitman: 25:51

Is it like on Crispy Rice with Yes. Mm,

Julie Murphy: 25:54

I think it's a crispy tuna. I dunno. It's really good. You just

Jason Blitman: 25:57

okay.

Julie Murphy: 25:57

to Nobu so I can make sure that we order it. That's all.

Jason Blitman: 26:00

Oh,

Julie Murphy: 26:00

So that's how you find out what it.

Jason Blitman: 26:02

that's right. Uh, food. It comes up a lot in this book. I'm obsessed. What? There's a chili bar at Sully's Graduation party. I have never been to a chili bar before. I've never had a chili bar before. What is, what do you serve? Tell me everything. Please educate me.

JVN: 26:21

It's like a build your own chili bar. Like obviously the chili is like, like the chili is like the chili, but you have like your bowl of like cheese, your raw onions. You have like an assortment of cheeses. You have like some gorgeous crackers. You could have like some diced jalapenos.

Jason Blitman: 26:35

Um.

JVN: 26:35

also think. Like, I love like a baked, I love like a, yeah. Sour cream, of course. I also love like chili, a top of a baked potato, like there's probably like a bowl of like baked potatoes that you could like put in the bottom of the bowl, you know, to

Jason Blitman: 26:50

But

JVN: 26:50

on top of,

Jason Blitman: 26:52

this is why I was asking if there's like, is there like a special secret thing? What is your family like? Cornbread. I don't

Julie Murphy: 26:57

just,

JVN: 26:58

shoot, cornbread.

Julie Murphy: 27:00

corn Road.

Jason Blitman: 27:01

Come on. I'm not messing around.

Julie Murphy: 27:04

I just moved from Texas to Kansas last year and I didn't expect for there to be so many like cultural differences, but the way that these people in the Midwest live and die by a crockpot. Like, just, I didn't, I don't realize how many, how many meals I was missing out on that Just simmer on your countertop.

Jason Blitman: 27:23

get one?

Julie Murphy: 27:24

Well, yeah. We have one now because

Jason Blitman: 27:27

Have you used it?

Julie Murphy: 27:28

yeah, I

Jason Blitman: 27:29

Okay.

Julie Murphy: 27:29

haven't used it'cause I don't cook, but the people in my house have used it my behalf.

JVN: 27:35

your favorite Crock Pot meal?

Julie Murphy: 27:38

Okay. So one of my friends makes like a Ruben dip,

Jason Blitman: 27:42

What?

Julie Murphy: 27:43

Yeah, and you can use the dip, just like put the dip on like a sandwich too and just make it like a little rubin dip sandwich thing. It's so delicious.

Jason Blitman: 27:53

Wait, can you describe it? What is the, what is in the Ruben Dip?

Julie Murphy: 27:57

Well, everything has cream cheese in it'cause it's the Midwest so there's a cream cheese base. I think. we make a lot of queso'cause all of the restaurants in the Midwest are Mexican restaurant.

JVN: 28:09

cheese case, like white queso and Midwestern Tex restaurants. It's

Julie Murphy: 28:12

I know

JVN: 28:12

favorite food.

Jason Blitman: 28:13

Hmm.

Julie Murphy: 28:14

all the, all the like restaurants in Kansas that have Mexican food don't have queso, they call it espan dip. it's like this weird spinach artichoke situation, which is good. But I also miss just like regular queso. So we've

Jason Blitman: 28:31

Hmm.

Julie Murphy: 28:31

a lot of regular que o too.

Jason Blitman: 28:33

Okay. I had a crockpot under my desk at work for about a year, and then I brought it home and I owned it for like 10 years and I think I used it three times, so that's why I ask about using it. I like had aspirations.

Julie Murphy: 28:48

had to repurchase one when we moved to Kansas because we were like, we're missing out on so much.

Jason Blitman: 28:55

wait. What happened to the first one?

Julie Murphy: 28:57

I mean, we, we lived in Texas. We donated it like we

Jason Blitman: 29:00

no.

Julie Murphy: 29:00

ate hot food under duress.

Jason Blitman: 29:02

But did, oh, so you rarely used it. I, I wanted to make sure that I was not alone in my rare crockpot using,

Julie Murphy: 29:08

No, no.

JVN: 29:09

been able to assimilate one into like our regular, but we wanted to, but it just

Julie Murphy: 29:13

Yeah,

Jason Blitman: 29:14

no, it doesn't happen. I don't know why. It seems so easy in theory. You're just so popular.

Julie Murphy: 29:19

No, I thought I turned on do not disturb and it's disturbing.

Jason Blitman: 29:23

was not listening.

Julie Murphy: 29:24

No. Oh my God. I

Jason Blitman: 29:27

so another food item that comes up in the book that I had to know more about is a cheeseburger egg roll.

JVN: 29:33

Oh yeah,

Jason Blitman: 29:34

Uh, where does that come from?

Julie Murphy: 29:37

at a cheesecake.

JVN: 29:38

it's like, it's like

Jason Blitman: 29:39

Oh my God,

JVN: 29:40

It's like a southwestern egg roll, a cheeseburger egg roll.

Jason Blitman: 29:43

I've had a Ruben egg roll before actually in New York.

JVN: 29:47

I've never had that.

Jason Blitman: 29:48

That was very good. But a cheeseburger egg roll. I have been to a Cheesecake Factory. Have I had it before? I don't know.

JVN: 29:56

really makes me wanna have a lava cake. Now that we brought up chilies. I really love their lava cake.

Julie Murphy: 30:02

There was a Chili's in the O'Hare airport this morning people were eating it at like eight 30 in the morning, and I was like, I could fuck it up.

Jason Blitman: 30:10

What would you order?

Julie Murphy: 30:11

that. What would, I've awarded at Chili's, this is hard, but I feel like in my heart of hearts, it would've gone for a Triple Dipper. You know, so boneless wings, little mini burgers and southwest egg rolls.

Jason Blitman: 30:26

This way you didn't have to commit.

Julie Murphy: 30:28

Exactly.

Jason Blitman: 30:29

Yeah.

Julie Murphy: 30:29

if I could make every meal tapas I would, but yeah, I love chilies. I

Jason Blitman: 30:35

Interesting.

Julie Murphy: 30:35

Like I saw a TikTok the other day of someone who had gone all the way to like and was like near the pyramids, like right on the Nile, and they found like a Chili's that you could eat at on the Nile River. And I was like, take me there. go there.

JVN: 30:52

Wow. I wonder if they have like a unique Egyptian menu.

Julie Murphy: 30:56

I doubt it. That might make.

JVN: 30:57

I feel like they do like yelling. McDonald's like has like slightly different like local things, like

Jason Blitman: 31:01

Yeah.

JVN: 31:03

I wonder like what the chilies, like, I feel like they must have like a something

Julie Murphy: 31:07

What if they call the lava cake? A lava pyramid?

Jason Blitman: 31:11

Oh my God. I just, I'm gonna look it up right now. Chili's in Egypt. Let's see what comes up. Um,

Julie Murphy: 31:20

Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 31:23

oh, wow. They have an Instagram. It's Chili's, Egypt Official. FYI.

Julie Murphy: 31:30

Amazing.

Jason Blitman: 31:31

Oh my God. Okay. I'll, we'll do some exploring later, but. It looks very similar.

Julie Murphy: 31:38

this podcast.

Jason Blitman: 31:39

I talk about food on every episode. Don't worry. I also talk about Rosie O'Donnell on every episode. So we're like on par with every other gays reading episode. We're fine. Um, speaking of food, this happens in the book. The, we're all roughly the same age, and this is maybe me being, um. An asshole to a younger generation, and I feel like I don't want to get stones thrown at me. The chef's kiss that everyone does right now and the heart hands I'm like allergic to, and I don't know if it's because of when I grew up this, am I talking to the wrong people? Are you both like, no, this, this is, you need to assimilate.

JVN: 32:19

to do this.

Julie Murphy: 32:20

Yeah, do like a chef's kiss and a heart hand. But this is like, this is the millennial heart hand.

JVN: 32:27

Yeah, so I

Julie Murphy: 32:28

another heart hand. Well, that, and then there's like a, there's another, there you go. That's the, that's the youngin's heart hand. I'm not allergic to those things, but there are things that I am allergic to,

Jason Blitman: 32:40

Like what

Julie Murphy: 32:40

so I get it. Oh man. Like,

Jason Blitman: 32:43

we, if you don't wanna get, if that might cancel you, that's okay. This I'm, I might get cancel. This might be it for me.

JVN: 32:48

Okay. How pretty was this when I did this?

Jason Blitman: 32:50

It is like cute. The mask of it all is very cute. Jam N but like I, I can, it's like cilantro to me. I can, I mean, I like cilantro, but it's like cilantro to other people. I just get,

Julie Murphy: 33:00

cilantro either.

Jason Blitman: 33:02

know why this is cilantro to me.

Julie Murphy: 33:05

but I hate when people say, like you were talking about the other day,

JVN: 33:10

Yeah.

Julie Murphy: 33:10

Jonathan, I

Jason Blitman: 33:11

What is chuge?

JVN: 33:12

it.

Julie Murphy: 33:14

what people call it when like millennials are cringey.

Jason Blitman: 33:17

Oh,

JVN: 33:17

I just thought of men generally cringey. I didn't realize you had to be millennial.

Julie Murphy: 33:21

Yeah, yeah,

Jason Blitman: 33:23

okay.

JVN: 33:23

like, I can't believe that I'm gonna be 40. That's

Julie Murphy: 33:30

I know.

JVN: 33:31

crazy.

Julie Murphy: 33:33

I know.

Jason Blitman: 33:34

It's so cringe

JVN: 33:35

so fast.

Julie Murphy: 33:36

social media manager this weekend was having like a little bit of like a spiral and she kept calling it a crash out and she's super Cuban, and I was like, maybe this is like a, like a language barrier thing. And then I keep seeing it everywhere on the internet that like the youngins are calling it a crash out when you have like a mental health dilemma or something like that.

Jason Blitman: 33:58

Interesting.

JVN: 33:59

I just can't even believe that. Wow. I just can't believe I'm not like 23 anymore.

Jason Blitman: 34:03

I know, I know. It's depressing.

Julie Murphy: 34:06

Do you

Jason Blitman: 34:07

I.

Julie Murphy: 34:07

40 this year, Jonathan?

JVN: 34:08

No.

Jason Blitman: 34:11

That's a 2026 problem,

JVN: 34:15

I know. I'm so sorry. No, that like, but that's amazing and I love that. Um, yeah. No, but I, I'll turn 40 the year after next.

Julie Murphy: 34:21

Okay.

JVN: 34:22

just for clarity's sake,

Julie Murphy: 34:23

Yeah.

JVN: 34:24

anyone cared, but you'll be fine.

Jason Blitman: 34:26

and, and I'm the youngest on the call. I just have to say it out loud.

JVN: 34:30

No,

Julie Murphy: 34:30

Yeah,

JVN: 34:30

good. That's really good. That's really

Julie Murphy: 34:31

yeah, yeah.

JVN: 34:32

That's really good.

Jason Blitman: 34:33

Just by a little bit. It's fine. Um, what were your car's names growing up?

JVN: 34:42

Betsy.

Julie Murphy: 34:44

Betsy.

Jason Blitman: 34:44

Actually,

JVN: 34:45

Yes.

Jason Blitman: 34:47

I asked because Olivia Newton John is the car is the star car of the book.

JVN: 34:51

Yes, yes, but that was just because we like her.

Jason Blitman: 34:54

Sure.

Julie Murphy: 34:55

Mine was to be the Toyota.

Jason Blitman: 34:58

What the Toyota.

Julie Murphy: 35:00

I drove a 1983 Toyota Camry. That was my first car. This was in like 2004. This car was old and, uh, no, not 2004. Probably like 2002. And um, it was a navy blue Toyota, like Toyota Camry, Toyota Corolla, whatever it is. And um, it had like the seat belts, like the automatic seat belts that like buckle you in. And someone had painted a racing stripe along the side that was yellow with house paint. She was, she was great. Uh, she lasted me, um, a good long while until I realized that you have to get the oil changed in your car

Jason Blitman: 35:38

Oh,

JVN: 35:39

Hmm.

Jason Blitman: 35:41

RIP. Um, I had a grand marquee Lincoln Mercury, and her name was Ethel Merman.

JVN: 35:47

Oh,

Jason Blitman: 35:48

was like a little old lady. She was green and at some point her AC stopped working and I grew up in Florida and so I was like, she's gotta go.

Julie Murphy: 35:56

Yeah. Swamp pass.

Jason Blitman: 35:57

Yeah, and my dad sold it to one of my cousins who like a second cousin, and the, the windows also stopped rolling down, so the cousin like drove it around in the Florida heat without the window. It was

JVN: 36:10

nightmare.

Jason Blitman: 36:13

Anyway, Olivia Newton John made me think about Ethel Merman, and I was very excited.

Julie Murphy: 36:16

Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 36:17

I know. All right, Peter, her too. Um, speaking of Olivia Newton John, there is fabulous queer history throughout the whole book. I feel like you need like a, like a coloring book follow up that has all of the key people from the book.

Julie Murphy: 36:33

Love it.

Jason Blitman: 36:36

I told you my tarot card told me I'm full of ideas.

Julie Murphy: 36:39

Yeah, I love it.

Jason Blitman: 36:41

Um. What was, what was that, uh, what was the importance of that for you? Of sort of educating the children?

Julie Murphy: 36:49

pitched. Okay. So Jonathan had this original idea for the book

Jason Blitman: 36:52

Yeah.

Julie Murphy: 36:53

was like, and then I want it to be full of queer history. And I was like, baby, that's you. Um, because I am familiar with Musical six, and that's about as far as my history goes.

Jason Blitman: 37:03

What.

Julie Murphy: 37:04

Um, I just never dialed in on history, and I know that Jonathan like. You like. That's what I mean. Okay. So now your podcast is called Getting Better, but it was called Getting Curious and like so much of your podcast, like starting out was just things that you were excited and curious about and a lot of that was history. So Jonathan had like, like interviewed so many queer historians.

JVN: 37:27

I mean, I've literally interviewed like I think dozens of them over the years, but I think overall it was like I didn't know that there was so much splendid queer history until I was like in my early thirties,

Jason Blitman: 37:39

Mm.

JVN: 37:39

like I really didn't know. And I was shocked to find out that there was so much like just right in our backyard. Like it just was like coded and like called different things. And think that was one of the biggest challenges is for me with. Well for us with Rufuss is, but it was really me.'cause Julie was having to like figure out how to like harness, uh, the Neurodivergence. But Rufuss really could have been from so many places in so many different times and they were like, rufuss changed forms so many times as we were writing this book.'cause Rufus could have been trans mask from like the early, like, from like the United Kingdom. Rufuss could have been trans femme

Jason Blitman: 38:16

Ru Rufuss, the, the ghost who comes out of the bag. Just for context. Yeah, yeah.

JVN: 38:22

the the purse, um, the haunted handbag.

Jason Blitman: 38:25

Yeah.

JVN: 38:25

that was really fun, was like kind of just figuring out like, when did we want Rufuss to come from and

Jason Blitman: 38:30

Hmm

JVN: 38:31

to be and who do we want rufuss to represent? But Rufuss, a story is based off of like a few different stories that really different that really happened from, um, drag performers. Drag performers from like the northeast in the nine, in the 19 hundreds.

Jason Blitman: 38:44

Hmm. Was there anything in part that's the third accent we've gotten today so far. I.

JVN: 38:51

Ugh. That must mean that I really am out of it.

Jason Blitman: 38:56

Is that not normal? What

JVN: 38:57

Well, no, I do love a little accent, but I think our

Jason Blitman: 39:01

is has one right?

JVN: 39:03

actually, you guys, I will tell you this, when we got married it, we got married in like June of 2020, and then it was like August of 2021 where I was like. Wait a minute. Have I been speaking in a British accent with you exclusively at the house for the last year and a half? And Mark was like, yes. And like, when is it gonna be over? And I was like, oh my God. I can't believe I've been talking like this nonstop and every, yeah. And like I, I really had to like force and relearn my like, like stop talking in a British accent. And every time we play Fortnite with our British friends, I slip into it. Like I just, and it's not good and

Jason Blitman: 39:40

Yeah.

JVN: 39:41

And the worst thing a British person can do, like a new British person can do is like, tell me that it's good because

Jason Blitman: 39:47

Then you keep doing it.

JVN: 39:48

Yes.

Julie Murphy: 39:50

I'm so like self-conscious of my British accent.

JVN: 39:54

Oh, can we hear? I don't think you've ever heard it.

Julie Murphy: 39:55

No, that's why you're never gonna hear

Jason Blitman: 39:57

Mm.

Julie Murphy: 39:59

because I dunno, like my husband's family is all in like Scotland and some, or like in

Jason Blitman: 40:03

Oh,

JVN: 40:04

They're not gonna listen to this podcast. Just fucking whip it out. Just try it.

Jason Blitman: 40:08

you know what I, I do. Listen, I pretend I am Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins, and so I just that'cause that's how terrible my British accent is. So I'm like, hello? Mary Poppins?

JVN: 40:19

sounds

Julie Murphy: 40:21

hello Mary Poppins.

JVN: 40:23

that's.

Jason Blitman: 40:24

Yes.

Julie Murphy: 40:26

nice.

JVN: 40:27

You should say, say like, say, um. Can I have a portion of beans, please?

Julie Murphy: 40:32

Could I have portions of, could I have a portion of beans, please?

JVN: 40:37

That's nice.

Jason Blitman: 40:38

Yeah.

JVN: 40:39

I've never seen you blush before.

Julie Murphy: 40:42

right now.

JVN: 40:43

feel like Julie's literally blush. I've never seen you fall blush. You're

Jason Blitman: 40:46

Listen, fun things happen on gays reading.

Julie Murphy: 40:48

Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 40:50

We do British accents. Oh my God. Mark is so cute too. Yes, yes. Um, okay. Julie, you, you said six was the, your, your most queer history ness that you knew. Um, we love six Great good car singing. Is there something in particular that you remember learning through the process that was interesting to you? I.

Julie Murphy: 41:15

Oh yeah. I mean, so originally when we talked about, um, this book, we had talked about the cons of like working in, uh, the concept of female husbands. And I had no idea what female husbands were, and I think that most people don't. So I think that Jonathan should tell everyone what female husbands are. Um, but before we do that, I should just. Like clarify that like I went to like a really super crazy Christian religious school growing up, so like my history was like the Bible and then whenever I could piece together, once I started going to school, like I remember I took a geology class in college and I was like, what are you telling me? We've had dinosaurs for so long. What's going on?

JVN: 41:55

10,000 years old.

Julie Murphy: 41:57

Yeah.

JVN: 41:57

crazy.

Jason Blitman: 42:00

Listen, we're never, it's never too late.

Julie Murphy: 42:04

Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Jonathan, female husbands.

JVN: 42:08

Um. Female husbands were like these like, well, but Julie, what was it? What? What is something that I was like spewed off to you about queer history that you thought, but you thought that the whole female husband story was interesting.

Julie Murphy: 42:18

I did think the whole female husband story was interesting, but what's crazy about female husbands is it's just like such like a niche thing that like really did exist in a really specific window of time. So.

JVN: 42:29

like, basically was like from, it was like the long 19th century. Like you would find like these articles about like female husbands. And it happened in the United Kingdom in the US and it would be like a straight couple where the man was found out to really be a woman. Um, and so it was like these like men. Or these like women who were like transgender. They like the historians who I talked to about that were like, we don't really assign them like trans.'cause like they didn't call themselves that then so, but they will say that they were like transgender. Um. that was from an episode that we did on getting Curious with Jen Manion, who's an incredible historian and writer who I think is an like, amazing. Um, but then I, but then there was like episodes that I did on like World War II era queers, like gay navy men from like the 18 hundreds. Like there was like a, then there was like, uh. There's just been like literally queers from all like from different centuries, different decades, like in American and European culture that I've had on the PO or from that I've learned about on the pod where I was like, ah, Rufus could be from so many places, but female husbands really intrigued me. But then really hard for me. I. To write from like the perspective of a trans mask person and like understand it as well. And it was like hard for me to connect with his character like that.

Jason Blitman: 43:47

Hmm.

JVN: 43:47

And so then I was like, let me do a queen from the fifties.'cause McCarthyism and the lavender scare is like rich and

Jason Blitman: 43:55

Yeah.

JVN: 43:55

and there was like so much there. Um, so that's kind of why we decided to go rufuss and make, um, them be from the 1950s and be a female impersonator.

Jason Blitman: 44:05

Yeah.

Julie Murphy: 44:05

thing I really loved that you talk about sometimes is when you had a historian on you told the historian that you thought you were like the only gay person that had come out of like Quincy, Illinois,

Jason Blitman: 44:16

Hmm.

Julie Murphy: 44:17

that historian brought like, like some sort of like magazine or something like that to their interview with you and there was like a little wanted ad sort of in this magazine that was like, yeah,

JVN: 44:30

from the

Julie Murphy: 44:30

yeah.

JVN: 44:32

and

Julie Murphy: 44:32

Well,

JVN: 44:32

my hometown,

Jason Blitman: 44:33

Yeah,

JVN: 44:34

like a date basically.

Jason Blitman: 44:35

that's, it's so interesting because a, I went to school in Chicago and, um, an administrator, the one of the. Deans, uh, was never in a relationship and then retired, comes out of the closet, meets this guy and they move to Quincy, Illinois and they're like retired little old gays in Quincy, Illinois, which is so interesting. Yeah. So not only is their history, but there's also future. Yeah. Love. Okay. In our last little bit together. Let them stare the title of the book. it's the opposite of being afraid to be seen for who you are. And I can imagine the three of us on this call at some point in our lives, were afraid to be seen for who we were and, let them stare. Is this like declaration? And I'm just curious to hear what it means for each of you.

Julie Murphy: 46:11

Yeah. Oh, I can jump in Jonathan,

JVN: 46:14

No,

Julie Murphy: 46:15

if you, um, so for me, let them stare. Uh. It is sort of like people are gonna look anyways, so why not let them stare? Because the more that we let people look, and the more that we normalize like different types of people, the more normal, just in general, it becomes to people. Um, so really that's what let them stare means to me. Like the more we let people stare, the more like, the more they'll find that there's nothing really to stare at.

Jason Blitman: 46:42

Right. I was gonna say, you, you said, I, I think the idea of it's not about more normal, it's about that we're all just individual. Yeah.

Julie Murphy: 46:52

I think, like I always think back about how like when I go places and do like talks about body positivity and fat positivity, I'm constantly telling people to diversify their social media feeds.'cause

Jason Blitman: 47:04

Mm.

Julie Murphy: 47:04

just the, the more types of people you see, the less unusual it feels to you to see different types of people.

Jason Blitman: 47:13

Yeah, that's a great piece of advice. BRB Gonna go follow a gajillion, different looking people.

Julie Murphy: 47:21

Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 47:21

Yeah. I love that. Jonathan, what about you?

JVN: 47:25

I think, I mean, I think it's Julie said and how she spoke to litter I think is so good. I think one thing that really rings out for me in in Sully's story who's like, I mean character of the book is their relationship with their mom, Eleanor, and I think that part of what. Is so special and was so special to write in. This story is like their relationship. And I think so much of how solely was able to kind of know who they were is because they have such a supportive mom or like such a

Jason Blitman: 47:49

Mm-hmm.

JVN: 47:50

parent. You know, it doesn't matter if it's like a mom, just a parent. and so I think that's really what I would like. I. That just like stands up for me with like, or stands out to me about let them stare is like part of while why Silly could withstand the intense scrutiny of their hometown is because they had a good support system and just how important that is. And many queers don't have that at home. And I think I. The more that we can be supportive of each other.'cause we never know like what other queers are going through. Like let's be each other's family in a time when just have like less allies. And so I think it's even more important for queers to like stick together and show up for each other.'cause it is like icky out there right now.

Jason Blitman: 48:29

Yeah. Yeah. And I think sort of to piggyback on that, a huge, uh, the heart of the book is this concept of, of do something about it, right? So it's let them stare, but also if, if, if you want to change something in the world. Don't just sit around and wait for it.

JVN: 48:47

Yes. You better crack that case.

Jason Blitman: 48:49

Yes. Crack that case. Write in your speckled notebook and figure it out. Oh my God. Did.

JVN: 48:56

I mean, and also it's like, it really, I feel like we didn't talk about the book that much. Whoops. But this is so fun. But it really is like, if you want like a fun little mysterious, like queer history, like fun, easy read, like this is like a fun, like my girlfriend Dylan is obsessed with it a lot. Like my, a little inner circle that Reddit before it came out was like obsess. So it is ya. But like, I think if you're a millennial queer, you'll enjoy this book too.

Julie Murphy: 49:20

Mm-hmm.

Jason Blitman: 49:21

there. Also for me as a young millennial queer, the book was How I Paid For College by Mark ato. Um, it has a lot of musical theater references. It came out like in the two thousands. That was my. Let them stare. Um, and yes, it is so delightful. Every episode has a guest, gay reader as a second segment, and Dylan was a guest gay reader on gay's reading and shouted out, let them stare. So that's, this has been in the gay's reading world for a long time. We love Dylan Lavay. Um, and today's guest, gay reader is Alison Bechtel. So.

Julie Murphy: 49:54

Shut up. Oh my God. Sorry. Like the

Jason Blitman: 49:59

The Allison Bechtel? Yes.

Julie Murphy: 50:03

Well,

Jason Blitman: 50:04

Coming up after this, after this session. I've already talked. I've already talked to her. Otherwise I would ask if you had anything you wanted to ask.

Julie Murphy: 50:11

I mean, I might have to like, I,

JVN: 50:15

obsessed.

Julie Murphy: 50:16

oh my God.

Jason Blitman: 50:17

Yeah. No, she's amazing. Um, do you know her musical fun home?

Julie Murphy: 50:22

yeah.

Jason Blitman: 50:23

Okay. You don't only know six.

Julie Murphy: 50:26

Okay.

Jason Blitman: 50:26

Okay. Okay. This has been so fun everyone.

JVN: 50:31

other day. We love you and we're so glad that had us

Jason Blitman: 50:33

That's okay. I had so much fun talking to you too, and honestly, like truly the false alarm was a really great conversation starter and so needed, so truly everyone go get Let Them Stare by Jonathan VanNess and Julie Murphy. It is so delightful. You're going to love it. And now stay tuned for Alison Bechtel.

Harper!: 50:55

Guest Gay Reader time!

Jason Blitman: 50:58

I don't

Alison Bechdel: 50:58

But Jason, this is like a new incarnation for you. Last I, I've met you, you, you used to work for Mandy Hackett, right?

Jason Blitman: 51:05

You did your research. Look at you.

Alison Bechdel: 51:07

I was like, that's a familiar name. And I looked in my email and there was all these emails with you about showing up for certain things at the public theater.

Jason Blitman: 51:14

That is so funny. So I gave you, and I assume Holly, a tour of the building after the very first workshop of Fun Home.

Alison Bechdel: 51:27

Yeah, that was a very intense day. I'm amazed I remember anything from that man.

Jason Blitman: 51:33

That's so funny. I know. I like very distinctly remember that. And I was like, n to now see you in this context is very odd to me because at the time I wasn't really a reader. I'm excited that our paths are crossing again.

Alison Bechdel: 51:50

Yeah, me too. I just listened to a couple episodes to see what you're doing. It's a great show.

Jason Blitman: 51:55

Thank you. I'm glad you liked it. well. Allison Bechtel, you are here as my guest gay reader. I am. It is an honor. It is a pleasure. It is hilarious to me because of the the way that fun home has come in and out of my life in such important ways, how you have weirdly come in and out of my life at different times as well. Allison, I have to know. What are you reading?

Alison Bechdel: 52:17

Well, I've been thinking about this and the sad truth is I, my reading life has been very curtailed lately.

Jason Blitman: 52:28

Yeah,

Alison Bechdel: 52:28

I started teaching fall. And who knew how hard that was?

Jason Blitman: 52:35

what are you teaching?

Alison Bechdel: 52:36

smokes. I'm teaching comics, Teaching, two classes of how to draw comics,

Jason Blitman: 52:43

it would've been really awkward if you accidentally were teaching standup comics.

Alison Bechdel: 52:48

yes,

Jason Blitman: 52:49

You were like, wait a minute. Wrong person.

Alison Bechdel: 52:52

very much the wrong person, but it was a crazy. Experience. I started teaching for the first time ever, like in my sixties last fall at the same time that I was finishing this, my new book, Which I suppose

Jason Blitman: 53:08

Which we'll talk about in a second.

Alison Bechdel: 53:11

and it was the most. Intense pressure I have ever experienced in my life. Like learning this New thing about how to teach, how to every day have to invent a new class and all these, like I have to have a website for each class and I have to keep track of the students and their assignments and keep thinking of more assignments. It was insane and every spare minute that I wasn't teaching, I was working on this book, I was rushing back to my little Garrett. That's where I am now. Like a monk on my little slant board, and week into September I had to stop reading anything at all except necessary stuff. I was in the middle of this great biography of William James that came out

Jason Blitman: 53:53

Oh

Alison Bechdel: 53:54

years ago.

Jason Blitman: 53:55

yeah.

Alison Bechdel: 53:55

think of the author's name. It's a great biography, but I had gotten to this point. I was about three quarters of the way through, and Henry, James William's brother. Had a nervous breakdown in the book. His New York edition of all his works had just been published, like Beautifully bound volumes, and they weren't selling, and Henry just felt like a fail failure and he had a breakdown, and I myself, felt so close to a breakdown in that moment that I had to set the book aside and I have not read anything purely for fun since then, seven months ago.

Jason Blitman: 54:36

How do we rectify that? That's okay.

Alison Bechdel: 54:38

There read a lot I don't wanna say it's compulsory reading, but I read for my classes, I read for my work, and I also do a lot of reading for. Writing blurbs, this is something

Jason Blitman: 54:53

Uhhuh.

Alison Bechdel: 54:54

hear writers talk about, but a lot of the stuff I read is stuff that hasn't even come out yet. So I have read a couple really great books that I Want me to talk about those?

Jason Blitman: 55:03

Sure. I also, you can talk about those. It's good for people to add things to their TBR list or I also am fascinated by things that people are reading that are not books, right? If you also wanted to. What are you what are you scrolling through that brings you joy or, because we're all reading on a daily basis, whether it's our emails or, but no, tell me what is something that you've read that we should look forward to?

Alison Bechdel: 55:29

The cartoonist, Mimi Pond has written an amazing biography of the Mitford Sisters that will be

Jason Blitman: 55:36

Oh,

Alison Bechdel: 55:36

in the fall.

Jason Blitman: 55:37

Uhhuh.

Alison Bechdel: 55:38

Do you know about the Mitford sisters? Oh my God, I didn't either, but whoa, there are these six sisters born

Jason Blitman: 55:47

see.

Alison Bechdel: 55:49

around the time of World War I. By the time World War II rolled around, they were all adults and they were nuts. They were just crazy. They were socialites. And one of them became a fascist and one of them became a, not a socialite, but a socialist, a communist in fact, and went off to fight with the Republicans in Spain. And

Jason Blitman: 56:11

Oh, how fascinating.

Alison Bechdel: 56:12

were amazing and. Between the six of them, they like interacted with every major figure of the 20th century from Hitler. One of them hung out with Hitler

Jason Blitman: 56:23

Oh my God.

Alison Bechdel: 56:24

JFK, to Martin Luther King. It was incredible. Anyhow Mimi Pond has a beautiful, drawn, a beautiful graphic biography of this crazy family.

Jason Blitman: 56:34

Fascinating. Amazing.

Alison Bechdel: 56:38

In a way, I think maybe that as a comic book, like as a visual narrative is the only way to wrangle so many characters and Time spans. But that

Jason Blitman: 56:48

Do you, you talked about the imminent mental breakdown being the thing that made you put a book down seven months ago. Has reading for blurbing. Brought any sort of joy or distracted you in a positive way, or does that also feel like work? Because I know lots of authors who read for Blurbing and they're like, oh my God, I just have so many blurb books to get through.

Alison Bechdel: 57:12

Yeah, I certainly did take pleasure in this book, but it's different when you have to do it. You're not reading it at your own pace. That

Jason Blitman: 57:18

Yeah. Yeah.

Alison Bechdel: 57:20

it somehow. So I'm trying to figure out how to make time for free range reading of stuff. I just. I do on my own. And I, that's just been a big struggle for a

Jason Blitman: 57:31

When you are reading for fun, regardless of when that's happening, what do you like to read?

Alison Bechdel: 57:38

for pure fun. I guess I like detective stories.

Jason Blitman: 57:42

Oh, this was not where I thought this was going. Tell me more.

Alison Bechdel: 57:47

What did you think I was gonna say?

Jason Blitman: 57:49

You brought up the biography and that feels very well. No, sure. That doesn't surprise me, but like for you to, like you very specifically said detective stories is what you go to for pure fun, which is funny that you say pure fun versus like fun. What was, what's the difference with me saying fun and pure fun?

Alison Bechdel: 58:10

I, it, life is so difficult these days. It's a

Jason Blitman: 58:14

I know.

Alison Bechdel: 58:15

time and

Jason Blitman: 58:15

Yes.

Alison Bechdel: 58:17

Hard to find ways to completely like decompress, just

Jason Blitman: 58:20

Yeah.

Alison Bechdel: 58:21

brain, crossword puzzles only take you so far.

Jason Blitman: 58:23

Drugs.

Alison Bechdel: 58:25

yeah, I'm trying to stay away from the drugs. I'm reading this sort of guilty pleasure right now for my bedtime reading'cause I can't read anything at bedtime that is at all substantive or God knows I would never sleep. and this is a book, it's a whole series that I only, it's been happening for 30 years. It's by Lori King. She writes about this woman who becomes the apprentice of Sherlock Holmes.

Jason Blitman: 58:54

Okay.

Alison Bechdel: 58:55

And solves all these cases with him and they're just, it's just fun and crazy and I love Sherlock Holmes homes as a kid, so it's a fun,

Jason Blitman: 59:03

I love Sherlock Holmes stories too. That's so fun. I love a good detective story. Okay, so you are reading something, you're bedtime reading.

Alison Bechdel: 59:11

Yeah, that's my bedtime reading.

Jason Blitman: 59:13

Are you like a read three pages and pass out immediately kind of person? I.

Alison Bechdel: 59:17

Here's the thing. I. I have been, but our troubled times, it's taking me a lot longer to zone out. But I discovered this new thing at the school where I'm teaching. They give us this app called Calm,

Jason Blitman: 59:31

Oh,

Alison Bechdel: 59:31

it's much cheaper than having to provide therapy for all the employees. Have you ever explored this? It's one of those like mental

Jason Blitman: 59:39

like the, I think I've done the seven day free trial.

Alison Bechdel: 59:42

Okay.

Jason Blitman: 59:43

Yes.

Alison Bechdel: 59:43

pretty pricey, but I get it for free. And they tell you these bedtime stories, these sleep stories as they call them, and I have discovered that they really knock me out.

Jason Blitman: 59:54

Perfect.

Alison Bechdel: 59:55

I'm not trying to read, I don't have my eyes open looking at a,

Jason Blitman: 59:58

Yeah.

Alison Bechdel: 59:59

read on a Kindle at night. I used to read on books, but those are quite cumbersome in bed, so onto the Kindle and now I don't even need the Kindle. I just have my phone next to my head

Jason Blitman: 1:00:09

Yes. Oh, you don't even put headphones in. You just have it playing next to you.

Alison Bechdel: 1:00:13

alone, if I'm with my partner, I have to put on

Jason Blitman: 1:00:16

Yeah.

Alison Bechdel: 1:00:17

up in them.

Jason Blitman: 1:00:17

Yeah.

Alison Bechdel: 1:00:18

I have a separate apartment at this place where I'm teaching, so I can just take the whole bed up. Anyhow, do we really need to go into all that? Sorry,

Jason Blitman: 1:00:26

I'm obsessed. This is the joy of the podcast is we can go fall down whatever rabbit holes we want to. I love imagining you like starfish on a bed by yourself in your apartment, with your phone next to your head, listening to a calm sleep story, zonking out.

Alison Bechdel: 1:00:43

yeah. Someone figured something out with these stories and I, and the beauty is I can listen to the same one over and over and over. one of my favorite sleep stories is about a train journey from Trondheim, Norway. Up the coast and back and I just keep listening to it.

Jason Blitman: 1:01:02

Because you don't know what happens at the end'cause you keep falling asleep.

Alison Bechdel: 1:01:05

can make it through to the

Jason Blitman: 1:01:06

So it's a mystery every time.

Alison Bechdel: 1:01:08

but it's a funny kind of, it's, is it reading? I don't know if it counts as reading, but. It's a, you can't write anything interesting or compelling in Or it will keep people awake.

Jason Blitman: 1:01:20

Yeah. That's interesting.

Alison Bechdel: 1:01:22

to be dull. And I it's a very curious form.

Jason Blitman: 1:01:26

That is a such a specific niche market and like I feel like I could do that.

Alison Bechdel: 1:01:32

Oh, you could you have a soothing voice.

Jason Blitman: 1:01:35

Oh, thank you.

Alison Bechdel: 1:01:36

yeah.

Jason Blitman: 1:01:37

I just mean like I could tell racket write stories that are boring. It. The stakes are low. As the story writer.

Alison Bechdel: 1:01:43

You could write them and read them, and then you'd get double

Jason Blitman: 1:01:45

Yes. Ah, genius. You'll now you have to get 10%.

Alison Bechdel: 1:01:50

That's 15,

Jason Blitman: 1:01:52

Oh, she drives a hard bargain. Allison, I'm like holding this in my hand is very special. I'm obsessed. And also I have this, the little companion piece that, that shows you what the color is gonna be.'cause the color is spectacular in the book. So you, your new book spent a comic novel. I want to hear your elevator pitch and then I will complain to you. What's your,

Alison Bechdel: 1:02:22

Okay. a sort of auto fictional project. It's about

Jason Blitman: 1:02:26

I.

Alison Bechdel: 1:02:27

named Alison Bechtel. runs a pygmy goat sanctuary in Vermont. So in some ways it's true. And about my real life, I am a cartoonist named Alison Beto, who lives in Vermont, but I do not run a pygmy goat sanctuary. I don't own one pygmy goat. So it's this very fun experiment in about myself, but in a disguised way that's just purely fun and silly.

Jason Blitman: 1:02:50

Yeah.

Alison Bechdel: 1:02:52

I don't know, like Curb Your Enthusiasm is a riff on. Larry David, but more exaggerated,

Jason Blitman: 1:02:57

Yeah. And so it's this sort of like episodic journey through this time of this cartoonist.

Alison Bechdel: 1:03:06

Yeah. It's about,

Jason Blitman: 1:03:07

Yeah.

Alison Bechdel: 1:03:08

it's about the recent present. Uh,

Jason Blitman: 1:03:12

Mm-hmm.

Alison Bechdel: 1:03:12

Place over the past couple years. And the really fun part of the book for me is that it incorporates. The characters from my old comic strip that I used to do in my youth. I, for many years wrote this comic strip called Thanks to watch out for this community of friends. And in this book, those people reappeared and they're all in their sixties now, like me, and they're my friends who live down the hill in Burlington, Vermont. It's this funny of my comic strip career and my memoir career, so It's part true and part up in a really fun way,

Jason Blitman: 1:03:51

And that is so funny to read as a reader who is very familiar with fun home. Because

Alison Bechdel: 1:04:02

right?

Jason Blitman: 1:04:04

I'm wait, I know this isn't true, but I know this is true, but I know this isn't true. But does Allison have a sister in real life? I don't think she does. But what's hap the dialogue that's being said in the book would totally happen if she did have a sister, her.

Alison Bechdel: 1:04:21

I know. I feel like I've, I have suffered this late in life realization that, oh my God, I've just told the world like my most intimate. Secrets. It's all out there. It's in these books. It's in this musical.

Jason Blitman: 1:04:34

Right.

Alison Bechdel: 1:04:35

on some level I'm trying to cover my tracks a bit. I think trying to call into question what exactly is true and what isn't.

Jason Blitman: 1:04:42

That's a hundred percent what the experience of reading it was like I was second guessing everything I already knew about you. In fact, I like literally flipped to the cover multiple times to like, make sure it said novel.

Alison Bechdel: 1:04:56

That's funny.

Jason Blitman: 1:04:58

But it is fun and it is stressful because it, as you said, takes place roughly now-ish in the last couple of years, and the world is falling apart and burning.

Alison Bechdel: 1:05:10

Yeah, and I finished it. I finished the it's hard to say when I finished the writing versus the drawing, but I completed Book like in November, like just before the election.

Jason Blitman: 1:05:21

Oh, cool. Cool, cool. Cool. Cool. Cool.

Alison Bechdel: 1:05:22

Had to leave open the possibility for what actually did happen which is making me excited for the sequel.

Jason Blitman: 1:05:29

Is there gonna be a sequel?

Alison Bechdel: 1:05:31

I hope so.'cause it, I, it's the only thing that's gonna keep me sane in, in this current landscape.

Jason Blitman: 1:05:38

I fully agree and appreciate that. What is your process like? You said finish drawing versus finish writing. What's, how do you work? I.

Alison Bechdel: 1:05:48

It's funny'cause I work in different ways depending on what I'm doing. When I was writing. Memoirs fun home. And then I wrote a couple more memoirs

Jason Blitman: 1:05:57

Mm-hmm.

Alison Bechdel: 1:05:57

It's this very, it's a very much a process of discovery and you don't know what's gonna happen. I can't like schedule it, it's just doing the work and hoping it comes together. But this book spent is much more like my comic strip I was just building a narrative like a fiction writer would. Just telling a story and making sure it fit together, which was in some ways much easier. And kind of schedule it like, okay, I'm gonna write this chapter this month, I'm just gonna do it. But that's the writing and ad I'm writing, I'm also envisioning the. Images I write in a drawing program, so I'm like playing around with the page and what goes where on the And then comes the fun part at the end where I actually do the drawing and bring it all to life.

Jason Blitman: 1:06:44

So the drawing always happens after you've written words.

Alison Bechdel: 1:06:47

Yeah. I wouldn't know what to draw if I hadn't plotted it out,

Jason Blitman: 1:06:52

yeah. I think with with some writers in theater, they'll pull together a group of actors and give them a scenario and just have them act things out and you figure it out in three dimensions and then you put pen to paper. So I didn't know, if you were to ever doodle something and see what your pen did that then inspired something.

Alison Bechdel: 1:07:10

people do that. I was

Jason Blitman: 1:07:11

Yeah.

Alison Bechdel: 1:07:12

on a panel with Peter Cooper who just wrote an amazing graphic memoir about insects and

Jason Blitman: 1:07:19

Cool.

Alison Bechdel: 1:07:20

He was talking about how he sometimes didn't know what was even gonna happen on the next page. He would Drawing it. so some people do that. I can't work like that.

Jason Blitman: 1:07:27

Was it fun?

Alison Bechdel: 1:07:29

It was fun, which is really a change of pace for me. Normally, my work is quite excruciating.

Jason Blitman: 1:07:35

Say more. Why?

Alison Bechdel: 1:07:39

I don't know because I don't know what's where it's going. I think that that's a exciting process, trying to learn something about myself or learn something about the other writers and thinkers I'm bringing into my memoir work. It's it's all unknown and that's stressful. I. never found a way to just be easy with that. And this, to a certain extent that was true of this book too. You never know what's gonna happen if you're gonna be able to figure out how to land anything. But it was and funny. It was basically just like a comic strip, like a, an

Jason Blitman: 1:08:16

Yeah.

Alison Bechdel: 1:08:17

comic strip. And I really enjoyed it.

Jason Blitman: 1:08:20

I'm so glad to hear that. Did it, do you, are you inspired to raise goats?

Alison Bechdel: 1:08:26

They're very cute. They're very appealing. But my partner Holly, actually can't abide goats. She part of the inspiration for the goats was my grandfather was a goat herd and Holly, my partner, was a goat herd in her youth. So it was just this funny kinda,

Jason Blitman: 1:08:43

What

Alison Bechdel: 1:08:44

a slight autobiographical. Connection,

Jason Blitman: 1:08:50

I.

Alison Bechdel: 1:08:50

Holly learned from that experience that she really cannot abide goats.

Jason Blitman: 1:08:55

I can't believe this is happening. Live on a recording. Hi. On a hill was a lonely goat herd. In my mind it was a herd of goats. But you are saying a goat herd is the person who is herding the goats.

Alison Bechdel: 1:09:12

Yeah, but actually I saw the sound of music with my grandfather I was four and he was 70 and he sobbed at that scene high on a hill was a lonely goat herd.

Jason Blitman: 1:09:26

Because he was the lonely goat herd.

Alison Bechdel: 1:09:28

he grew up in the owls herding goats. And he hadn't been back since. He was a, he'd never gone back.

Jason Blitman: 1:09:34

Oh my God. In my mind, like a herd of Nn. Hill was a lonely goat herd is a group of goats, but I never thought about it as being a person. Your grandfather is the lonely goat herd.

Alison Bechdel: 1:09:45

Yes. Yes. Did you have any idea this was gonna come around to the sound of music?

Jason Blitman: 1:09:51

I didn't, and funnily enough, my episode that released today, also, the sound of music comes up.

Alison Bechdel: 1:09:58

I was recently watching the Sound of Music one night, not so long ago, desperately trying to find something that was gonna calm me down, and it is terrifying. You

Jason Blitman: 1:10:09

Terrifying. No, the Nazis come at the end. Allison.

Alison Bechdel: 1:10:14

come

Jason Blitman: 1:10:17

No.

Alison Bechdel: 1:10:18

it. Yeah,

Jason Blitman: 1:10:20

Or you know what? Maybe it's important to watch it so that we know what to do

Alison Bechdel: 1:10:23

yeah. Maybe it is.

Jason Blitman: 1:10:25

right? We're gonna just sing our way outta town. Oh God. A new question that I've been asking everybody because this to me is important and is a time to amplify people that we love, who are important to us. If you were to die tomorrow, who is deleting? Your search history on your computer,

Alison Bechdel: 1:10:50

Wait.

Jason Blitman: 1:10:50

it can, it can't be. Holly, who are you entrusting To delete your search history? In this moment? Who is so special to us that we trust with our lives and our secrets?

Alison Bechdel: 1:11:03

How about Fran Liebowitz? I would

Jason Blitman: 1:11:05

Do you,

Alison Bechdel: 1:11:05

Her.

Jason Blitman: 1:11:06

you know f or are you just gonna ask her?

Alison Bechdel: 1:11:08

I don't know her, but I. I just saw her per perform and I was so impressed. She is like sharp as a whip.

Jason Blitman: 1:11:17

I am obsessed with her.

Alison Bechdel: 1:11:19

and I would totally trust she could have the whole keys to everything I.

Jason Blitman: 1:11:23

I hear you. You're not wrong. My issue with her, it is a very real high stakes logistical problem. She doesn't own a computer and I don't know that she would know how to do it

Alison Bechdel: 1:11:39

my God. You're right. She would have no idea how to do that.

Jason Blitman: 1:11:42

right.

Alison Bechdel: 1:11:43

She'd probably it off to the Doge people.

Jason Blitman: 1:11:49

But the instinct is good. I appreciate it. We could amplify Fran Lebowitz. She's doing important work in other ways though. I

Alison Bechdel: 1:11:57

helper.

Jason Blitman: 1:11:58

Yes, a hundred percent. That's a great, right. Fran Lebowitz is intern, is who we're asking.

Alison Bechdel: 1:12:04

Yes.

Jason Blitman: 1:12:07

It's probably like Steven or something, or like Lin Linda. Yeah, I could see her intro name being Linda. Anyway Allison, I'm so excited for you. I'm so excited for everyone to check out. Spent the new Allison Bechtel comic novel, not memoir.

Alison Bechdel: 1:12:27

comic get it comic in both senses.

Jason Blitman: 1:12:30

Yes. Don't be confused. She does not have a sister in real life. I did have moments I like, I Googled it twice.

Alison Bechdel: 1:12:39

That's great.

Jason Blitman: 1:12:40

I was like, I am a hundred percent sure, but I need to be 110% sure. Because there is this moment in the book where you're like, this is why I didn't put you in my memoir. And I was like, oh my God. Does she actually have a sister that no one knows about? You sent me on a journey, Allison.

Alison Bechdel: 1:13:01

I'm so glad Jason.

Jason Blitman: 1:13:04

Congratulations. I'm so happy that you're here. Thank you for being my guest gay reader today.

Alison Bechdel: 1:13:08

I think it was a delight, and I'm gonna keep listening.

1:13:11

Jonathan, Julie Allison, thank you all so much for being here today. Thanks for listening, everyone. Have a wonderful weekend. Go check out the Pride Guide on the Gays Reading Substack, and I will see you next week. Bye.