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Gaze reading where the greats drop by trendy authors. Tell us all the who, what and why. Anyone can listen Comes we are spoiler free. Reading from stars to book club picks we're the curious minds can get their picks. Say you're not gay. Well that's okay there something everyone. Hello and welcome to Gay's Reading. I'm your host Jason Blitman. And on today's episode I talk to Dylan Hardcastle about their book, A Language of Limbs. And today's guest, gay reader is Benedict Win, uh, and her book, hot Girls with Balls. Both books are out now and both of their bios are in the show notes. it has been a week y'all. With so many Supreme Court rulings, it has really put a damper on the end of pride. And I've been filled with rage and frustration and disappointment, and I am sure that I am preaching to the choir when I say all of that and all after a really pretty solid pride. Um, but of course, when you're gay, every day is pride. Every month is pride. So. Yeah, I, I've been sort of on the struggle bus with, uh, how to feel and what to do. The what to do part I think is really what's getting to me. So I wrote some reflections about this month, over on the gays reading Substack, if you wanna check that out. and I've just been thinking a lot about ways to support the lgbtqia plus authors. Sort of in general and it's self-promote, but I am really proud of the fact that this book club with Stoa is really going to exclusively feature LGBTQIA plus authors. And the percentage of profits that those authors take is so much higher than from other stores. And so I guess that is one really great way to support writers and you know, you sort of get something out of it too. if you haven't looked into it yet, you could learn more about it in the show notes and in the lynch tree on Instagram. But this month's selection is disappoint me by Nicola Dine. Uh, she was a guest gay reader a couple weeks ago, and when you sign up, you get a membership to Altoa, which also means that you get books at wholesale prices and you join the group chats for the club. And Altoa donates a kid's book to LGBTQIA plus youth, which obviously. We need now more than ever. So it does feel like a really great way to support and subsequently you're supporting gay's reading and it's all just sort of really great and really cool and it's gonna be fun. And I hope you could join us and amplify and support these authors at the same time. The link is in the show notes and in the Instagram bio. We are at Gays reading on Instagram. If you have not followed yet, uh, you could follow us over there like and subscribe wherever you get your podcast. And if you have it in you to leave a five star review, it is certainly greatly appreciated and I hope you all had a great pride as best as you possibly could have. And now please enjoy my conversations with Dylan Hardcastle and Benedict Winn.

Jason Blitman: 3:31

A Language of Limbs by Dylan Hardcastle. Congratulations.

Dylin Hardcastle: 3:35

you so much. I'm very excited.

Jason Blitman: 3:37

Me too. we're spoiler free on gays readings, so I'm not gonna talk about spoilers, but the ending of this book is gonna stay with me for a long time.

Dylin Hardcastle: 3:46

Oh, that's so cool to hear. I actually, I'm really proud of the ending and funnily enough, there was a couple of times where I was, it was like the one part of the book that I always cried in when I was writing or editing it. And it was so funny'cause I remember I was living in this all trans house called Sabrina while I was writing, or while I was editing the final draft. And I remember one of my housemates walked in and saw me crying and was like, are you serious? Like you can't be crying at your own book. I was like, it's.

Jason Blitman: 4:14

Of course it's moving and I imagine, you were revisiting it after some time. Right. And these people are real to you. They're in your heart.

Dylin Hardcastle: 4:22

Yeah, absolutely. It's always like that. I think ending a book and parting with these people that you've been with for so long.

Jason Blitman: 4:28

There's one author in particular who I've talked to who has a whole ritual for sending the book off into the world. She'll go. Literally light a candle and put flowers in the water and let it send it off into the universe to say goodbye to these people and then move on. I love it.

Dylin Hardcastle: 4:46

love that. I'm just crying to my laptop.

Jason Blitman: 4:51

I think that's very sweet. For the listeners, what is the elevator pitch for your book?

Dylin Hardcastle: 4:58

Uh, So a language of limbs is structured between limb one and limb two, like a limb of your body in these sort of alternating chapters and in limb. One story, a 15-year-old unnamed girl is caught kissing her neighbor in Newcastle, which is a city just north of Sydney. In Australia in 1972 when she's kicked out of home. And then on the same night in 1972, also in Newcastle, another 15-year-old girl is wakes up from a sex dream she's had about her best friend that's having a sleepover. And she just turns the light on, looks at her friend, asleep on the floor, and turns the light up and goes back to sleep. And we essentially follow these two unnamed protagonists over the next 30 years through the almost intersections of their lives. And you. Do read the book. Not entirely sure if they're two versions of one life in a sort of sliding door scenario, or if they are in fact different people, which is, yeah, I guess not revealed until the very end.

Jason Blitman: 5:48

It's so funny that you're on today's episode of Gay's Reading because next week I'm talking to Ruben Reyes Jr. About his new book archive of Unknown Universes, and it is very much a alternate universe sliding doors. Type, are we in two different worlds? What happens if decisions are made? Sort of story. So it's a, it's a very uh, theme. This a big theme this summer.

Dylin Hardcastle: 6:12

That's so cool to yeah, it feels very, I don't know. I don't know what the right word is. Serendipitous or

Jason Blitman: 6:17

Yeah. I would agree. And very, and yet very different books. Okay. This is gonna be, this is maybe a traumatic question, and so feel free to say. Shut up Jason. I'm moving on. But since one of our protagonists, their story sort of kicks off because they were caught. Were you ever caught? I, it made me think of a time when I was walked in on, and I had some feelings.

Dylin Hardcastle: 6:44

No, I, if I ever was, I've blocked it out of my

Jason Blitman: 6:48

Oh, good

Dylin Hardcastle: 6:49

I'm kind of like, I wouldn't be surprised. I definitely have been caught masturbating before as a teenager, but no, not as far as I know. I didn't get caught with anyone else.

Jason Blitman: 6:58

I feel like we all, that's like teenage trauma. It's a rite of passage, right?

Dylin Hardcastle: 7:03

Truly,

Jason Blitman: 7:04

The, like the quick closing of the computer or the quick, like throwing the blanket over you.

Dylin Hardcastle: 7:09

truly.

Jason Blitman: 7:11

Oh my God. I'm like dusting up trauma inside of me as we speak.

Dylin Hardcastle: 7:17

Yeah. You're like, I wish I didn't ask that

Jason Blitman: 7:18

I know suddenly I'm like, oh God. I also, I bring up therapy so much on gay's reading. Thank God I have therapy tomorrow morning. Things to talk about. So obviously I say obviously, but it's because the title has the word limbs in it is why I say obviously. But limbs are a motif really throughout the book. Can you talk a little bit about what. This is such a silly question, but what limbs mean to you and like where that comes from, where the title comes from? The title comes up in the book, so we don't necessarily have to give it away per se, but maybe theoretically.

Dylin Hardcastle: 7:54

Yeah, so I first came up with the idea for this book actually in 2017, like quite a while ago, and I was walking through Sydney CBD at night listening to music and I was walking to a gig and it's like one of my favorite times to come up with ideas is like, yeah, sort of meandering through a city at night. And I. Was thinking about how my friend and I had been joking at the time how almost kissing is sometimes hotter than actually kissing. And I imagined what would it look like if two lives were almost kissing, over the course of a whole lifetime? And I remember being, I was just buzzing by the time I got to where the gig was.'cause I'd imagined like some of the biggest moments, I think in the book, in the, in this 25 minute walk to this gig. And so got there and was like, blah, blah, blah, like trying to tell my friends everything I just imagined. And they're like, cool. We actually just wanna listen to the music. But I think in that wake of that, like I actually went on to write another book. Like I wrote my third book Below Deck while I was living in the uk. And then while I was over there I went to this exhibition at the Baran in London and came across the work of Claude Kahan and Marcel Moore. And, started thinking about this, like ideas of star cross lovers and and thinking about a love story, not as beginning with the like, moment of two people meeting, but what would a love story look like? Almost if you imagined that, a relationship ends up being the, like the body and that you have these two limbs that are moving or tracking towards the torso where these, like two limbs meet up. And so I was imagining like, what would it look like if you started a story. To carry on with this metaphor, like almost at the fingertips, you know, and you sort of like traced along these limbs and then got to the point where these like stories converged and that Yeah. Almost like the love story ends at the meeting. And part of that was because Claude Khan and Marcel Moore, who were this like. Lesbian couple. They were lifelong lovers and lifelong artistic collaborators. Like all the work they ever made, pretty much after they met was made together. And they were like profoundly influential in the surrealist movement, even though they largely got written out of archives and anthologies, probably because they were women and they were queer. But they, I've. Just lost my train of thought. I had to get it back. Um, Yes. So Claude was commissioned by the surrealists I think it was Paul Ard and Andre Broon asked a bunch of the surrealists in the thirties or twenties, and they basically said, what is the most important meeting of your life? And to what degree did this meeting come by, either chance or necessity. And that question like Claude had a really interesting answer and she actually wrote about her parents meeting and that being the, the beginning of her making. But a lot of the surrealists wrote about the day they met their lover or. These various sort of monumental moments in her life. And I remember thinking, I guess with this idea of limbs of all the sort of chance encounters that happen, both by chance and by necessity for two people to come together in two stories to collide and, how often, like when I've met someone significant and then we've worked out, oh, we were at that same party and here you are in the background of this video that I took or all of the ways in which we like almost collide before Yeah. These stories like finally yeah, collide in, in the flesh.

Jason Blitman: 11:05

And it's so interesting'cause you talking about that there's this idea of being present in the moment physically, but not necessarily mentally or emotionally, you, your, you could share a space with someone. Your limbs can be in the same space but your brain and your heart are not.

Dylin Hardcastle: 11:21

totally. And the thing, I've actually been thinking about that a lot recently of I guess thinking about the sort of, timing of those collisions where, you know, I know that these two stories had they like coalesced any earlier the, they just wouldn't have in the same way that they do. When the timing's right I don't know, I'm really, I've been really sucked into this idea recently of like meeting and colliding at like the moment when you're like able to able to show up in, in a capacity, that means you really do meet someone. And I think. Actually, like I started tea almost a year ago now, and the way that I have been like so present in my body where I almost didn't realize how dissociated I was from myself until now being like, oh, this is what it's like to feel an emotion as it's happening and feel the texture and oh, this is the texture of joy when you're like present as it's like unfolding inside you. And it's meant that like I've just been able to show up so fully and that my connections now with other people. I am just meeting them in such a, like closer, more ins like a, yeah, it's more like instant the meeting as opposed to yeah. Some distant me having distance from myself and therefore distance from them.

Jason Blitman: 12:32

Sure. And I imagine it is, talking about time aligning and things happening at the right moment in in this time where you're talking about this book in What a beautiful time for you to be able to feel present,

Dylin Hardcastle: 12:48

Yeah. Truly it's made the whole experience of Yeah. Touring and being able to talk about it. Yeah. So Rich and yeah, it's been quite incredible.

Jason Blitman: 12:57

Congratulations. Is that a weird thing to say? I'm so glad that this is your experience right

Dylin Hardcastle: 13:01

Yeah. I don't think it's weird at all. Thank you.

Jason Blitman: 13:04

You brought up Claude Khan. Khan Cahoon. K.

Dylin Hardcastle: 13:08

Yeah, I'm, to be honest, I'm not entirely sure. I have a friend that's Parisian and and he said can't, or Yeah, but in a French accent, I'm probably failing it to be honest.

Jason Blitman: 13:18

Yeah. So you spoke about their story can there is a, the moment where Limb one sees Claude Kahn on the screen, it made their skin dance and that seeing Claude was an undoing. When has that happened for you?

Dylin Hardcastle: 13:38

Yeah, so when I came across Claude's work at the Barkin at this, it was this exhibition on modern couples. And so there was like Virginia and Leonard, Virginia and Vita. Dora mom, Pablo Picasso like Frito and Diego, and it was really quite amazing.'cause for instance, with the Dora and Picasso section of the exhibition, Dora had like front and center, like in her work, which has historically been overshadowed by Picasso. Was front and center. And so the way that this exhibition was structured was just incredible. And I, my background's actually in visual arts. Like I was a painter before I dropped out of art school to start writing books. And I was obsessed with surrealism. And so when I came across Claude and Marcel's work, they were doing all of these like portraits of each other. And I read the plaque, Bahar side their work, introducing them and. It actually didn't I don't remember them being like gendered. I don't remember hearing reading any pronouns and I actually mistook them as gay men'cause they both presented really massive looked quite androgynous. And so there was this couple and it said in the plaque that there was surrealists. And I remember standing there not only had I had this sort of experience. Seeing their portraits and like recognizing something of myself in them and having a really similar experience. I think I then was able to write about limb one, having the same feeling. And when I was looking at. Or reading about their work. I just, I could not believe that they were surrealists and this like art movement that I'd been so obsessed with. I was like, how have I never seen these two people before? And then when I went to the sort of like gift shop at the end of the exhibition, Jennifer L. Shaw, who's this amazing art historian, had written a book like quite recently. I think it had come out in 2016 or 2017, and this was 2019. And. I picked up the book and I was reading it on the way back to Oxford, which is where I was living at the time and on the train, and I was like, oh my God. They were women and they had one of the they have one of the most exhilarating love stories I think I've ever come across. And I just devoured this book. Between on the train? Yeah. On the train back from London to Oxford and yeah, they met when they were Lucy and Suzanne, and they met when they were 14 and 17. And Lucy's mom had previously been institutionalized for I guess hysteria, mental illness, whatever it was at the time. And and it had never come out and not long after the girls met. Lucy tried to take her own life and her dad took her to see a psychotherapist.'cause he was like, oh God, she's, she's ill with the same thing that her mother had. And the psychotherapist said, she's not unwell. She's in love with Suzanne. I think if you don't let them be together, she might die. And so the dad started chaperoning her around to Suzanne's house where he met Suzanne's mother, who I believe was a widower, our widow. And, they eventually got married, which meant the girls became stepsisters. And so they're allowed to live together and were allowed to be affectionate in public. And it was like fine to assume that they would, it was a sisterly affection and they then lived together for their entire lives. And when World War II broke out they went to the island of Jersey where Suzanne's family had a house to hide out. And they started making an office, like really politically charged work where they were stealing newspapers because the island actually got over or occupied by the Nazis during World War ii while they were there. And they started stealing all these newspapers and pamphlets and like. Rearranging the titles and the texts. And then em like distributing this material back out across the island, trying to encourage the soldiers on the island to dissent against Hitler. And so they were like creating all this like really radical, subversive art. And at one point the soldiers overtook their house.'Cause they needed more space to sort of house soldiers. And so they hid everything in the attic. All this really transgressive art. And then at one point a soldier went into the attic and found it. And so they got caught and they got put on trial and they, were they essentially had to prove that they weren't working for anyone.'cause by this point, the soldiers had been trying for two years to find out who was making all this art. And they got put on trial and they, in proving that they weren't working for anyone else, proved that they were guilty and they got sentenced to six years hard labor and to be executed. And clawed actually joked in the courtroom will we be executed before or after we do the hard labor?

Jason Blitman: 18:06

Oh my God.

Dylin Hardcastle: 18:07

And then they were like in the prison. And I think it might actually have been on Christmas Day, one of the guards came and opened up Claude Cell and actually let Suzanne in and they let them share a cell. And because yeah, they'd befriended some of the guards who then were, let them share a cell. And then not long before they were meant to be executed, the war ended and they walked free.

Jason Blitman: 18:27

Yeah,

Dylin Hardcastle: 18:28

That was just so incredible. So that was my Claude and Marcel

Jason Blitman: 18:31

yeah. Which obviously also comes up in the book. So that was my introduction to them. But there is something that you, I don't wanna say alluded to, but there's a. element of their story that comes up a lot on gay's reading. I talk a lot about the difference between family and relatives, And it, it can be controversial. I don't think you would find it controversial, but to some people it's controversial. And what's so fascinating about the two of them is that. They became family and they, or they became relatives, but they also were each other's family. What a unique, I think, experience for them.

Dylin Hardcastle: 19:14

Yeah. I love that.

Jason Blitman: 19:16

and the idea of. Found family comes up so much in the queer community and obviously is a huge part of this book. What does that mean to you? That seems like such a simple and stupid basic question, but what does found family mean to you? I think we all have a different experience with it.

Dylin Hardcastle: 19:36

Yeah, I think I think, yeah, found family feels like the, the kind of I concentrated version of what I imagine that, like how I think about the queer community and which I very much think of as a verb and a doing and not something that we necessarily say, and then it like I don't, it's, it is not a name for me. It's like a thing that is made by the ways in which we participate in community and the

Jason Blitman: 19:59

found family specifically?

Dylin Hardcastle: 20:01

yeah. I think found family within the context of. Of I think I, yeah, I'm speaking maybe more broadly to queer community and then the found family within that is the the really material ways in which we care for in ra like visionary ways of caring, I think. And that's, yeah.'cause it's it's a choice, right? I think relatives were born into this and and there's something about found family and that feels. Deeply expansive or profoundly expansive in that, that it is a choice and that we choose to show up and choose to care. Yeah. In these sort of like radically expansive ways for each other.

Jason Blitman: 20:37

Do you have found family or chosen family or as Armstead Moins as logical family?

Dylin Hardcastle: 20:44

Yeah, no, I feel very fortunate to have, yeah, very beautiful and eclectic found family. The other, one of the houses that, that I was editing this book in was nicknamed Sabrina, after Sabrina and Patch tore. Because we felt like the house like had embodied the same aesthetic as the character that she plays in White Lotus of the sort of repressed. Closeted lesbian which was yeah. And it was like such a stylish, but yeah, like bizarre house that we were living in. But it's so beautiful and incredible and it was the first time I'd lived with yeah, all trans people and there was something it was like the first time I think in my life that I really. Felt like home could be the reset that makes like all the living outside possible where this house was like this space that you would walk into and just shed all your layers, like not just like material clothes, but just drop off kind of everything that had happened outside and it, it really bolstered us in a way that. Yeah, I think that was what I was trying to capture in Uranian house, which is the, the queer share house in a language of limbs. The way that, that we were built out from the inside and that this house really did exist as a sort of like a calm in the eye of the storm. And there was so much joy that happened in that house, but also just so much I was like, oh my God, my system nervous system can just be so regulated at home. And I never knew this was possible. It was like, and it made everything outside feel, yeah, like it was like, oh, I could tackle anything because I could, I've got this like refuge that I can come home and undress in.

Jason Blitman: 22:20

Yeah, that, that is so cool. And what an incredible experience to, at the very least, feel safe,

Dylin Hardcastle: 22:29

Yeah. No, it was exactly that.

Jason Blitman: 22:32

there is though something that comes up in the book there's a quote, if everyone is gay, then no one is. And so you saying that about everyone in the house was trans. I had this moment of wait a minute, did it almost feel like it, counterbalanced everything and you were living in this world where no one was trans, right? Do you know what I mean?

Dylin Hardcastle: 22:54

that's so true. And actually like. Yeah, it was funny'cause then it would mean that I don't know. Yeah. Then I remember going to this party during Sydney Fashion Week around around the time that I was living in that house and, and it was every, everyone was wearing these like very queer coded outfits, but it was just like high sort of couture fashion. And I was like shocked when it transpired that people weren't queer. Like I was like, get, I was like, oh, okay. Oh, I see. I see what's going on here.

Jason Blitman: 23:25

that's so interesting.

Dylin Hardcastle: 23:28

I very much think of queerness as like a, visionary ways of caring as like a politic as like a thing that we participate in, that we are like both making and made by queer culture. Yeah. And so I'm like, even now that I'm, as I'm saying that, I'm like, what does actually mean for clothes to be queer coded?

Jason Blitman: 24:20

I, there, something else that comes up a bunch is just the concept of stereotypes and stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason. And so I, if I guess if a whole bunch of straight people are wearing outfits that look like one would see on Elton John, Then there's this weird juxta, weird is, again, not the right word, but there's this juxtaposition between who they are and how they're presenting. Anyway, I'm falling down this imaginary rabbit hole of me just like picturing these humans. What was your coming out journey like? If you don't mind talking about it, that's something that comes up in the book, which is why I was curious. I,

Dylin Hardcastle: 25:03

Yeah. I, I had quite, a delayed coming into myself. And I think like, I've been thinking about this a lot recently. Because basically I Until I was 15, wanted to be a pro surfer was like such a nerd for surfing. Like I was like a jock, but in the sense that I was a nerd for sport. Like I was like, don't talk to me. I'm busy, like practicing

Jason Blitman: 25:26

right. I'm studying the

Dylin Hardcastle: 25:28

literally. And so I, yeah, I was surfing like at a national level in Australia. Like if you had told me at 15 that I was gonna be. An author at 31 and not on the pro circuit, like I would've been devastated and what are you, what? I can't believe it. But I think until I was 15, I was like in a, like surfing in a at the beach that I grew up near that was like, dominant, it was entirely men in the water. And it's really interesting because. Basically I, when I was 16, had my first psychotic episode and I spent the next seven years in and out of psychiatric wards. Was like hospitalized a number of times and as a result, had this would disappear for months at a time, like in these institutions and then come out again and yeah, I think, when I was 2021. I hadn't gone for more than six months without having an episode. And that meant that, yeah, my life was like constantly interrupted by this and it yeah, by, I guess losing my mind in various ways. You are already at an age where you're on the cusp of figuring out who you are and then it's complicated by not knowing what's real versus what's not. And I. I think as a result, I sort of had this really delayed coming into myself because the majority of the people that I was coming into contact with who were queer were also in hospital. And so I had these like really intense desires and urges and impulses, like one of which meant was like a desire that I had to cut off or to essentially remove my breasts and I was. Experiencing that in the context of having bipolar and having like really intense episodes of bipolar. And so for a really long time I conflated various like queer and trans impulses and instincts and desires with being sick. And most of my twenties was a very long and slow process of disentangling the two. I think, yeah, it was like quite my sense of self was very obscured by that and meant that. Especially coming into my transness, most of my experiences were stabs in the dark where I was like, I don't really know how this is gonna feel, but I just have this desire to, to step in this direction anyway. And then landing there and being like, oh my God, I can't believe I ever didn't exist like this. And I actually saw my great aunt who's 90, on New Year's day of this year, and I hadn't seen her for a few years. I hadn't seen her since since before I had top surgery. And actually I think May, it was around the time I changed my name a few years ago. It was the last time I'd seen her and I. I, yeah, I don't wanna tell this story'cause it's so beautiful, but I basically went to see her and I remember being quite, self-conscious. I was like, she follows me on social media, but also, she's 90 years old. I don't know how across all of this she's gonna be. And I remember putting on, I had a single on and I decided to put on a t-shirt'cause I was like, I'm just gonna, make this somewhat less obvious what has happened. And I went in and I was sat with her and she and I walked in and she said, oh my goodness, look at you. Oh my God. Oh my God. And she was like, you look so happy. And she was like, you just look amazing. Don't you look incredible? And like I walked in and she sat down and she had all this tea and biscuits laid out for me. And we sat there and we spoke for a few hours. And she was asking me about my new book and my PhD and all these different things. And then she, just said she started talking. She started telling this story about when I was in hospital when I was 17, and my Nan had come in with the two of them had come in, which was my nan was her sister. And how my Nan had apparently tossed like a bag of candy on the bed and been like, oh, do you want this? And Gwen was like saying to me, she was saying, you looked so upset that your grandmother was dismissing all this pain that you were in. And, you didn't complain and you just sat there and you weathered it anyway. But I could tell how upset you were that she was like dismissing where you were or where you were at. And I couldn't remember the story she was telling about, so I was just like nodding along. And then she said, do you think they knew? Do you think your mom and your nan knew who you were then? And then I had this moment of being like, oh my God, she's talking about me being trans. I was like, maybe I can talk about this. And so I explained what I, just relayed to you about this, like desire to remove my breasts that I had at that age and and how like I'd conflated that with being sick. And then she just asked me, she was like, was it a big surgery? And so then I talked to her about the surgery and I said, no one, none of my friends could deny how much happier I was afterwards, even though it was like really intense. And she just said. Yeah that's obvious. That's obvious to me. And then if I'm, yeah, I feel emotional, I'm thinking about it now, but basically she looked at me and she said, I bet you had a lot of people telling you not to do that. And I bet you had a lot of people asking you, are you sure? Because, and she was like, it is a strange thing. I haven't heard of anyone wanting to do that before. And then she said, but for the rest of your life, now you can rest assured that you can trust yourself. Not many people can say that about themselves. And she was like,'cause you listen to yourself, you listen to this thing that you had inside you and you just did it anyway. And I've been thinking about that so much because I think, in a world that is very much insisting on the expulsion of trans and gender diverse people, not only from public life but also from the public imagination. And in this world that's so often distrustful of trans and gender diverse. And also, just queer testimonies. Full stop. I think to be able to trust yourself and listen to those impulses and desires is such a gift and feels really, I don't know, revolutionary or something.

Jason Blitman: 31:04

That's so incredibly special. Thank you for sharing all of that.

Dylin Hardcastle: 31:09

Thank you. Thanks for asking the question.

Jason Blitman: 31:11

Yeah. Is Gwen still with us?

Dylin Hardcastle: 31:13

is. Yeah, she is. I'll have to send her this. We

Jason Blitman: 31:17

Thank you Gwen. If everyone in the world could be more like Gwen, then the world would be a better place. Although she probably has her flaws too. We all have our flaws. We're only human. The follow up in the book about coming out is the concept of needing to come out all the time. And, this is something my husband and I. Will sidebar about that. So many people don't necessarily understand the, even the micro coming out that you have to do on a regular basis, to just acknowledge your husband in a meeting so that someone knows it's just like a little, a teeny tiny clock. Oh, they're gay. Oh, they have a husband. Oh, little nuggets here and there. It's just a constant thing that is. Something that I think has started to come naturally to us as queer people, but also, is just a part of life that we don't really think about anymore, which is just so weird. So it was a nice To read in the book.

Dylin Hardcastle: 32:14

Yeah. Yeah. And it was also, one thing that I was really interested in bringing into the book as well was like the choice not to, and that not like putting any sort of moral value on, on, on that. Because I think there was this woman who I saw speak. At a event called Queer Stories in Australia a few years ago. And she's Lebanese and she, her and her partner met doing this like organizing for Palestine and in the nineties. And she was talking about her and her partner kind, coming together in this beautiful story. And then she spoke about the decision not. To come out to her family. And she just, she said this one sentence that has stuck with me for so long where she said, if your sexuality or your gender identity is like the point of friction in your life, it just goes to show how many places you belong everywhere else. I've thought so much about that. And actually Cara's character in the book, her parents are Irish Catholics and her family is, she chooses not to go, sorry, not to come out to them at all. And that was like one thing that I was like really interested in, in exploring not only this idea of having to come out over and over again, but the specific moments in which you decide not to. And yeah, not, as I said, not placing any sort of moral judgment on that because I think. One thing that Limb One learns, is to respect that. And Ra talks about how her mother would genuinely believe that she wouldn't find her in heaven. And she's I actually don't want my mom to die thinking that she's not gonna see me again. And that, that like silence, I think Limb one can't quite grapple with that initially and does play some moral judgment and I was like, you are not living your truth. And is judging her for it, but ultimately learns, I think. Yeah. That, that, that silence is this gift actually, that Kari is giving her mother.

Jason Blitman: 34:06

Yeah it's also, again, the things that come up all the time on gay's reading simply because of the nature of who we all are, but the concept of how. Stuck in binary thinking we

Dylin Hardcastle: 34:21

Mm, mm-hmm.

Jason Blitman: 34:22

And it is just how we have to declare something so that everyone around us knows what box to put us in.

Dylin Hardcastle: 34:31

Totally.

Jason Blitman: 34:32

And not to make this about me, but you, you talking about. Needing to determine when you do and don't want to come out or whatever term you want to use. When I was in high school, a kid came up to me and flat out asked me, are you gay? And my response to him was, what do you think? And he said I think you are. And I said, okay you can keep thinking whatever you want to think, and I will just keep being whoever I am. And. Upon reflection. I don't know how the hell I thought of something like that to say I'm very proud of 17-year-old Jason, I think if we all just need something to hold onto and it's frustrating and disappointing and we can't just be and let today. Live our life, how we're living it today and tomorrow, live our life, how we're living it tomorrow or minute by minute or moment by moment. Because that's all life is.

Dylin Hardcastle: 35:30

Yeah. Really?

Jason Blitman: 35:32

You use the phrase coming into yourself And I think the book, there's a lot of becoming, What does it mean to become to you?

Dylin Hardcastle: 35:46

to, To draw off the image that I use in the book is I think so much of, like my experience of queerness has been like one of. Almost being suspended, in like the state of ambiguity of things like not quite making sense or not quite being able to place something. And then that picture like coming into focus. And so like for me, yeah, I very much feel like. Coming into myself and this yeah. Processes of becoming have been about. I like the image that I use at the very beginning of the book is of looking at this picture upside down and it's like abstract shapes and you're trying to make sense of it. And then the picture is like slowly inverted and suddenly the like forms take shape and you see what the picture is of. And that's very much. Yeah, I guess how I've experienced this and I think, even having readers suspended in a state of not knowing whether these are two versions of one life or in fact or if they're in fact different people, was part of me wanting to suspend readers in that same sense of ambiguity so that the text is also slowly coming into focus and the like story is taking shape eventually in a way that then starts to make sense to us, where then you're like, oh, I can't remember what the world looked like before. It didn't make sense.

Jason Blitman: 37:01

Yeah, it's, yeah, I like what I wanted to say. Would've given things away and I don't wanna do that. But yes, I can concur. And again, since you can't see me, you didn't see me like very emphatically nodding along with everything you were just saying thing. There's a quote in the book. Life I believe is a constant wandering, and if you're lucky, you come across someone you want to wander with. What do you look for in a fellow wanderer?

Dylin Hardcastle: 37:32

I think. Something to do with time. Yeah, I've like recently started wondering for someone who's walking at the same pace as me in this way that like,

Jason Blitman: 37:45

Yes.

Dylin Hardcastle: 37:46

Where I'm like, I don't know. I think I, I move around a lot and my like way of being in the world has always been like, quite fast paced and and I like. I travel a lot and I'm in like a lot of different, I'm always like like on the go, even when I'm like at home in the city that I live in I mean my, some of my friends who have me on Find My Friends play, I get literally play a game called, where is Dylan as they live together and they like open up their phone and they'll be like, okay, where's Dylan? And they all have to guess where I'm gonna be

Jason Blitman: 38:17

That's so

Dylin Hardcastle: 38:18

because I'm always in different places. And, and yeah, recently yeah, I've met someone who is moving in the same, at the same pace as me and um, in, in moves through the world in a really similar way. And I think historically maybe it's that like way of being has been something that people have found like exciting to be around, but then ultimately have found it challenging in the sense that then they're like, okay, but I'm a homebody and why aren't you home enough? Or, like that. Then it like comes into friction. And that's something that's like initially quite enticing, ends up being almost like the point of the un the beginning of the unravel. And this yeah. Recently has been so exciting to just be like, oh, what would this look like if someone was Yeah. Was walking like very much beside me in that way.

Jason Blitman: 39:02

Yeah. You said that and my brain immediately thought that was. The most obvious answer and not saying you answered obviously, but for me to not think that is what you would've said. But of course you want to wander with someone who is wandering at your

Dylin Hardcastle: 39:17

Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 39:19

I love that. Okay. This is so random and unrelated and I don't want to give anything away, but I will say that there are vows in the book and they are. Amazing. I don't want to ask like, where did these come from, but. But is it that you, are a poet in your heart, is it that you're a romantic? Is it that you have great examples of deep love around you? Is it, does that make sense?

Dylin Hardcastle: 39:52

Yeah, definitely.

Jason Blitman: 39:53

because it like really came from a person, I read it as though whoever wrote this. Understands love and commitment, really, they really moved me.

Dylin Hardcastle: 40:05

That's so cool to hear. I think because for someone that has been to so few weddings I really didn't know if they were gonna resonate. But I, yeah, it's funny. I like two things. I think the first is that. So many of my like platonic friendships that like of friends that I would consider my found family, they have modeled like such stable and consistent and slow love for me that or so love to me, modeled this like a beautiful way of loving that. That has like really, I think so much of, yeah. The love that I've learned has been actually from friends and from found family and then, the second thing I think is that yeah, I very much feel like this book was writing. I love that. I like maybe only thought, or not only thought, but had only experienced in fiction and was a, was it felt like this really beautiful like writing or setting out the kind of love that I like wanted to experience in my life. And I, yeah, I feel. Very much like I am experiencing that at the moment and I'm like, oh, this is like art imitate, life imitating art. I'm not sure which way around it's gone

Jason Blitman: 41:17

I love

Dylin Hardcastle: 41:17

but yeah, I feel yeah. Very lucky to

Jason Blitman: 41:20

What does real love mean to you?

Dylin Hardcastle: 41:25

I think it's, I think it's in the doing.

Jason Blitman: 41:28

Oh,

Dylin Hardcastle: 41:29

yeah,

Jason Blitman: 41:30

say more.

Dylin Hardcastle: 41:31

I think I. The, it's as a person that works in words, I'm way more interested in how those words are like enacted, in the ways that we like, offer a couch to a friend that's just been evicted or like a going round to cook meals for someone that's sick. Yeah, love very much feels to me like a thing that we do much more so than a thing that we say. And I think that's how Yeah. There's also one other thing that I just thought of the conversation that limb Won has with Big Dave in the book. When they're talking about love being not just like a thing that we say, but a thing that we feel and that it is like. What a beautiful thing to move through the world, knowing that there are people that like are feeling love for you and that sort of like emanates out and that you like, I don't know. That really bolsters me and yeah, it makes me feel quite strong, like in the way that I then move through the world to know that exists and that there's yeah, that there's people in my heart and I'm in theirs, and,

Jason Blitman: 42:29

It's so interesting that is how you articulated this because I, in another conversation earlier today was expressing my utter disdain for heart hands. When you take your two hands and make a heart. Because, and upon unpacking it, I think what I realized is. It comes across as so presentational, and I was explaining to them, this person, I was like, it gives me the ick, like I genuinely, it like makes my stomach turn. I kind of understand why, but it's like I have a phobia of the two hands coming together to make a heart. I don't know, I can't explain it, but,

Dylin Hardcastle: 43:17

Amazing.

Jason Blitman: 43:18

but the concept of love is a thing that we do or love is a thing that we feel. I talked around in circles with this author and I got to the point where I was like, oh, I think because what I want to see is someone touching their heart, Right? Showing, you have touched me. You have made me feel, or I feel a way about you, and to fully understand that the love is coming from somewhere, or it is, bursting out of me to do something for you versus something so presentational as the heart hands.

Dylin Hardcastle: 43:52

Totally. Yeah. And'cause it feels like the heart hands feel disconnected. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 43:56

exactly. Yes, and I think that's why I am allergic to them

Dylin Hardcastle: 44:02

That makes sense.

Jason Blitman: 44:05

This is like my new high horse and I need to get off of it. This is

Dylin Hardcastle: 44:08

This is the hill you'll die on.

Jason Blitman: 44:10

is, and I don't understand why, and there's no way I'm ever gonna win this fight because Taylor Swift does the heart, hands, and. That's it, period. The end.

Dylin Hardcastle: 44:20

End of story.

Jason Blitman: 44:21

I know exactly. oh my God. You talk about the importance of names Which is amazing because we really are only learning about Limb one and limb two. And it, it comes up as a sound. Our voice makes, that signifies us. A, a quote that spoke to me is that your name remains the cause of your story. What do you mean by that?

Dylin Hardcastle: 44:53

I think it's like. The thing that every, all the other sentences that, that we like, construct or the stories that we tell about ourselves, start out from that name. And and because I wrote this book I started writing this book in 2021, which was the year that I chose my name Dylan. And so I was thinking a lot about what? Yeah, like meaning I wanted to embed in like this new. Iteration of myself. Um, And Dylan, the way, especially the way that I spell it, is the Welsh spelling. My family's from Wales, and it means born of the sea or toward the tide. And I chose it because I like, I was such a water baby, but also water has been this thing that I've like constantly turned to throughout my life. And yeah. And so I think, yeah. That name then felt so significant. It's oh, this is speaking to like how I am in the world. And yeah, every story that I tell about myself is is emanating out from this like meaning, if that makes sense.

Jason Blitman: 45:59

Might you say that it's all the limbs coming off of your name.

Dylin Hardcastle: 46:03

Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Jason Blitman: 46:08

I love that. And of course, having read the book, that means so much more. Slash you could also listen to this and then read the book and reading the book will mean so much more and vice versa.

Dylin Hardcastle: 46:22

the one thing Yeah. That I've actually realized in the last year and which I think also makes the name feel even more significant is I really didn't read much growing up. I was such a painfully slow reader, and as I said, I was a nerd for surfing and I just wanted to be a pro surfer, but it meant that I spent hours and hours, four years from when I was like. Seven or eight until I was 15, before and after school in the water, reading water, like reading the ocean and like reading swell lines to then be able to judge, like which wave you're gonna pick and how or where you're gonna position yourself by the time it gets to you and. My, like reading practice in some sense when I was growing up was like just reading water. And I think then the, this name of tour the Tide makes so much sense. And even like this book, surprisingly is the least I've written about water of all four of my books. And and yeah, it like, it just continues to be this sort of here I go again an under, like the current at the bottom of my work. But it does, it underscores everything that I've ever written

Jason Blitman: 47:26

an undercurrent

Dylin Hardcastle: 47:27

Yeah, it was so cliche.

Jason Blitman: 47:32

It's it's funny that's what you say.'cause what I was gonna say, as we're ending our conversation, something that I a beautiful thing to take away from the book is that language, the title is a language of limbs and language does not always mean words. And so you talking about reading the water.

Dylin Hardcastle: 47:56

Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 47:57

and I think people think of when they hear reading. They think, reading words, but you can read energy, you can read situations, you can read all sorts of things that don't involve words.

Dylin Hardcastle: 48:08

totally. Yeah. And I think even the, a language of limbs. Title. There's like a part in the book where one of the characters is meditating on the word family and what does it mean to be family in this context, like for this queer family. And you're searching for the collective noun for family and writes this poem where she's like testing out different words that. That could stand in the I think it's like a held of friends or a comfort of people or, she's like playing out all these different collective nouns. And the title was actually me imagining what the collective noun of limbs could be That yeah, I imagined limbs as like dancing around each other. And so then yeah, as you said, like you can read a whole bunch of different things and, reading body language, reading, yeah, this sort of like the way these two stories like almost collide and almost intersect, but have this like lifelong dance. That's what I imagined the language to be.

Jason Blitman: 49:03

Yeah, it's very interpretive, like an interpretive dance.

Dylin Hardcastle: 49:07

exactly.

Jason Blitman: 49:07

Like the, like waves in an ocean.

Dylin Hardcastle: 49:10

You got it.

Jason Blitman: 49:11

Dylan Hardcastle, a Language of limbs. Thank you so much for being here today.

Dylin Hardcastle: 49:15

you so much for having me. It was such a pleasure.

Jason Blitman: 49:17

The book is wonderful. It is out now, wherever you get your books. And what else? Anything else to say? Anything else to tell you? I don't think so. It was a, it's terrific. Everyone go buy it.

Dylin Hardcastle: 49:28

Thank you.

Harper!: 49:30

Guest Gay Reader time!

Jason Blitman: 49:34

I love that your nails are giving Glinda an alphabet, but also, but cover.

Benedict Nguyen: 49:39

Book cover. It's tis the season, have to be in the mood.

Jason Blitman: 49:44

Are you a wicked fan? Is am I projecting onto you?

Benedict Nguyen: 49:48

project Away. I've seen the movie, but I have not seen the MO musical, so I actually don't know how it ends. If I see the second one, that'll be a surprise, but,

Jason Blitman: 49:59

I, there are a lot of people that I know who don't know how the story ends, and I'm obsessed. It's been around for 20 years.

Benedict Nguyen: 50:05

Things that miss me. But during the film I saw it with a friend. My friend reached over and grabbed my pinky

Jason Blitman: 50:12

Oh no.

Benedict Nguyen: 50:13

and I just burst out laughing.'cause yeah,

Jason Blitman: 50:17

yeah. We love them. It's

Benedict Nguyen: 50:18

an incredible press tour.

Jason Blitman: 50:21

that is about to start again.

Benedict Nguyen: 50:23

Are they okay? I.

Jason Blitman: 50:24

Are they okay? You're living their life. I feel like right now. You have your pink and green nails. You're on a press tour.

Benedict Nguyen: 50:32

Of a kind. Yeah. Honored to,

Jason Blitman: 50:35

Yes. Ariana Grande.

Benedict Nguyen: 50:37

yes.

Jason Blitman: 50:37

How's your day? What's happening? What?

Benedict Nguyen: 50:40

Day's been okay. Had rehearsal for this dance work that I've been choreographing. And we did our first run through today, so that felt great.

Jason Blitman: 50:52

Say more.

Benedict Nguyen: 50:52

did some work, emails.

Jason Blitman: 50:54

it? What is this dance piece?

Benedict Nguyen: 50:56

Yeah. It's a short word called defense. And it's based off of ideas that I've been toying around with, you know, I have single track minds. One thought. It's about sports.

Jason Blitman: 51:07

Where did this love of sport, I don't wanna even say love again. I'm, I'll stop projecting onto you, but where did sports come from for you

Benedict Nguyen: 51:15

that's not projection. That's stated. We love sports. Yeah, I was not very athletic growing up, but I started dancing and I. Formal training when I was around 17, and that just helped me understand my body and what my body could do differently. And I'm like, wow, there's more potential here than I've been activating.

Jason Blitman: 51:39

Were you well-rounded? Were you a modern girly? Were you a tap girly? What was your dance

Benedict Nguyen: 51:48

My early training was in ballet, but I've become a bit more well-rounded. I've become more well-rounded since

Jason Blitman: 51:55

my background is in theater and when I went to theater, summer camp, once a week there would be like a dance class. And so every week change like what you were learning. And so I wouldn't call it formal training, I would call it summer camp training, whatever that means. But I, my point being, I've taken a ballet class, I've taken a tap class, I've taken a jazz class, so I'm like, I'm familiar with, adu.

Benedict Nguyen: 52:18

You've had exposure

Jason Blitman: 52:20

exactly. Yes. I can play, I can gr plie. Yes, exactly. Thank you. Ariana Grande, plie. Bring it back.

Benedict Nguyen: 52:31

Full circle.

Jason Blitman: 52:32

So it's always been volleyball or was were sports like a thing in your household? Are you, do you, are you a football person? Tell me more.

Benedict Nguyen: 52:42

Not not really. Yeah, it's volleyball

Jason Blitman: 52:46

Interesting. I say interesting.'cause it's like. Niche in that you're not like turning on the TV and seeing volleyball,

Benedict Nguyen: 52:55

not in this country. Yeah. But it's a lot more popular in other parts of the world. And I was curious about what, like what is it about volleyball that hasn't allowed it to reach a certain kind of mainstream?

Jason Blitman: 53:11

What do you think it is?

Benedict Nguyen: 53:13

Like a pet theory is just that, like it's like in the us like men's sports will tend to have to like, eye roll pave the way for the women's side to be popular and like the way that baseball, basketball, American football, allow a certain kind of. Aggressive masculinity.

Jason Blitman: 53:35

Yeah

Benedict Nguyen: 53:35

and they fold that into the physicality of the sport itself. I, it's my little gender analysis

Jason Blitman: 53:42

If there was tackling in volleyball, it would be very popular in the States, right?

Benedict Nguyen: 53:47

But it's, there's a net. It's in that sense, more polite.

Jason Blitman: 53:52

But it, I'm suddenly on this like volleyball wavelength of just I wonder how it became like the thing that you played on the beach and not baseball, right? Like how did volleyball end up to be the thing? It's just, anyway, very interesting. We could do like a deep dive armchair history on volleyball.

Benedict Nguyen: 54:11

Do you? Do you have ball sports that you like watching or playing?

Jason Blitman: 54:16

None that I could talk about on the podcast.

Benedict Nguyen: 54:18

Incredible. On air off air.

Jason Blitman: 54:22

I was the kid who played T-Ball and was put in the outfield and. Just twirled my arms and looked up at the sky. And I've never been to a football game. I've been to some hockey game. No, but hockey's, that's not a ball game. That's a puck.

Benedict Nguyen: 54:44

Flat ball.

Jason Blitman: 54:45

it's a flat ball. It's like a burger. Yeah. I don't know why I've never been, I'm very competitive and so conceptually I like sports. But I think as a kid it was this like projection of quote unquote manliness and I didn't I didn't fit in with. The kids that were playing the sports. And then as an adult, I am so annoyed that someone who tackles other people and like kicks balls makes more money than teachers. So I like morally have a hard time with it, but I'll play pickleball with friends.

Benedict Nguyen: 55:30

Absolutely ball sports for adults.

Jason Blitman: 55:35

Yeah, though it's funny'cause I said I was competitive the very first time we went to play pickleball with some friends, we were invited and I was like, great. I was looking up rules before we went. I've ne I'd never played before. We get there and we're just like noodling around and I was cool, when are we gonna, when are we gonna start? Who's, let's get the points started. And then the one who organized it was like, oh no, we don't really calculate points, we just play. And I was like, okay, but how do we know who wins?

Benedict Nguyen: 56:04

My name is Benedict Win. You understand,

Jason Blitman: 56:07

exactly. Exactly. So once I reframed my expectations of okay, we, this is not a winning, losing situation. It's a hanging out with friends and hitting a ball over Annette. Then I was on board, but,

Benedict Nguyen: 56:20

so you don't secretly count the points in your head.

Jason Blitman: 56:23

oh no, I do.

Benedict Nguyen: 56:24

Okay, great.

Jason Blitman: 56:26

But I'm not like angry that no one else is.

Benedict Nguyen: 56:29

Internal intrinsic mo motivation.

Jason Blitman: 56:31

right. It's I'm competing against myself, From the last time.

Benedict Nguyen: 56:35

It's funny how in, in my experience in like dance theater world to see people's competitiveness come out in certain contexts.

Jason Blitman: 56:44

Yeah.

Benedict Nguyen: 56:46

And,

Jason Blitman: 56:47

Is there something in particular that comes to mind for you?

Benedict Nguyen: 56:50

I think for me it's been more like, I, like I. Took myself out of like cattle calls at a certain part early in my career. I was like showing up to those and just seeing everyone size each other up and I'm like, I, this isn't about this for me. Or, I'm not tough enough for this. But yeah, I'm like, wow, everyone's, muscling their way towards a job. That probably isn't fun I don't know.

Jason Blitman: 57:22

it certainly doesn't pay as well as an athlete.

Benedict Nguyen: 57:26

Not in this economy,

Jason Blitman: 57:28

No. Oh my God. Yeah. Anyway, speaking of competing for things, competing for your attention, Benedict Win. What are you reading? As my guest, gay reader today, I have to know

Benedict Nguyen: 57:39

Yeah. Speaking of theater the book that I've been like talking to friends about is, I think, are you nodding? Do you know

Jason Blitman: 57:45

No, tell

Benedict Nguyen: 57:45

I want to talk about audition.

Jason Blitman: 57:47

no. Oh my God. Tell me everything. I'm obsessed.

Benedict Nguyen: 57:52

I Wow. Katie tomorrow. What a hero. I don't have my copy

Jason Blitman: 57:58

I had it reachable, not like it was. It is,

Benedict Nguyen: 58:02

it nearby.

Jason Blitman: 58:03

yes. Oh my God.

Benedict Nguyen: 58:05

I like,

Jason Blitman: 58:06

Tell me what, why do you love it? Tell me everything.

Benedict Nguyen: 58:10

I think I finished it and then I had my few interpretations were spoiler free.

Jason Blitman: 58:16

We're spoiler free.

Benedict Nguyen: 58:17

Or spoiler free. And then I was like digesting my interpretations. And then I had dinner with a friend who like was like a little meh on wanting to read it and I was like, please, I need to talk about it. And then she had 12 different interpretations that I hadn't thought of that I was like

Jason Blitman: 58:37

and this is why the book is so amazing. On one hand it is like such a, it is an easy read in the sense of it's short. The sentences are not, hard to understand, but there's so much to process and to talk about with other people, And it broke my brain.

Benedict Nguyen: 58:53

Incredible. As the best book should.

Jason Blitman: 58:55

Yes. Is there anything else that you're reading?

Benedict Nguyen: 58:59

Yeah, I have uh, Vera Blossoms, how to Fuck Like a girl right now. A series of essays That's so funny, so witty.

Jason Blitman: 59:10

I just moderated a panel that Vera was on.

Benedict Nguyen: 59:13

Wow. Incredible.

Jason Blitman: 59:14

Okay. Well, Hot Girls With Balls.

Benedict Nguyen: 59:17

Hot girls with balls.

Jason Blitman: 59:18

Win. What is your elevator pitch?

Benedict Nguyen: 59:21

Yeah. The phrase that I've been like tossing around in the past few days has been sic, sporty sicko satire. It's about two volleyball players who are rivals. They're also lovers who have a secret influencer rivalry that they don't talk about that really only one of them is in on. And they're also two Asian American trans women who play for the men's league,

Jason Blitman: 59:50

Yeah.

Benedict Nguyen: 59:51

hot girls with balls.

Jason Blitman: 59:53

Yeah, it, I again, wow, projecting is like the theme of this episode. What, I can make assumptions of where this comes from, but where does this book come from for you?

Benedict Nguyen: 1:00:09

Yeah, it was thinking about a few themes happening at once, the volleyball that I was talking about earlier and the ongoing. Attack on trans rights in this country that have been going on for a long time, and the discourse around where trans people fit in sports. I was thinking about. Like discourse around certain kinds of internet novels. I was also reading some criticism that was like, nobody wants to read about the pandemic. It's we should just pretend it never happened. And I was like, what if I mixed all of these themes in the same book? And what if. There wasn't just one but two protagonists who are Asian American trans women, and what if, what if they concurrently make the same kind of pessimistic choice about recognizing that they would have a harder time building their careers in women's league than in, they're gender assigned at birth league.

Jason Blitman: 1:01:07

Yeah.

Benedict Nguyen: 1:01:08

And finding if I could open up some humor in that.

Jason Blitman: 1:01:15

Yeah. The first Paige alone I think gives a sense of the ride that we're in for.

Benedict Nguyen: 1:01:24

Yeah. Got it. Gotta set the tone.

Jason Blitman: 1:01:26

So okay. Completely unrelated. Something I've been asking all of my recent guest gay readers since I heard this question asked on the Hulu show, mid-century modern, in an effort to amplify the incredible humans around us in our life. If you were to die tomorrow, who would you ask to delete the search history on your computer?

Benedict Nguyen: 1:01:56

Incredible question. Yeah, my search history is not that interesting. I'm not worried about her.

Jason Blitman: 1:02:03

No, but who are we

Benedict Nguyen: 1:02:04

weird medical and with that yeah. That, so it's like I'm lucky I've so many friends I call up and, friends who have been helping supporting me throughout this book process and yeah. Networks and communities that I've been building over my adult life. Yeah, absolutely.

Jason Blitman: 1:02:27

have so many people I could turn to

Benedict Nguyen: 1:02:28

that's, he said I was on a press tour. I said, here's a persona.

Jason Blitman: 1:02:33

Oh my

Benedict Nguyen: 1:02:34

persona is bragging. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 1:02:36

Love. Anything else you wanna brag about? You could brag about your star review.

Benedict Nguyen: 1:02:42

Yeah, I am very stoked that yes we've gotten some really nice reviews and six in green summer, let's go as I've been talking about it.

Jason Blitman: 1:02:52

Oh my God. Amazing. Benedict win everyone. Go get your copy of Hot Girls With Balls Out Now, wherever you get your books. And thank you for being my guest gay reader today.

Benedict Nguyen: 1:03:02

Thank you so much for having me.

1:03:04

Thank you Dylan. Thank you Benedict. Uh, language of li a language of limbs and hot girls with balls are both out now. Wherever you get your books, thanks for Thank you everyone for listening and I will see you next week. Bye.