0:04

Gaze reading where the greats drop by trendy authors. Tell us all the who, what, and why. Anyone can listen. Comes we're spoiler free Reading from politic stars to book club picks where the curious minds can get their picks. So you say you're not gay. Well that's okay. There's something for everyone. Gays rating. Hello, and welcome to Gay's Reading. I'm your host, Jason Blitman, and on today's episode I have Jade Chang talking to me about her new book. What a Time To Be Alive. And Rose Dommu is my guest gay reader, she's talking to me about her book, best Woman. Both books are out now and both of their bios can be found in the show notes. As always, if you like what you're hearing, please share us with your friends. Follow us on social media. It means so much. When folks share episodes that they love or leave comments and all that. I can't tell you what a labor of love this little indie podcast is and to see the great feedback that it gets over on Apple Podcasts and Spotify with, with comments and reviews and such, uh, mean so much. So thank you all to those of you who have done so in support of the podcast. What else is there to share? There's still time to join the Gays Reading Book Club through Altoa. You get your first book for just$1. The October book is Middle Spoon by Alejandro Varella, and it's so great. And then on, october 15th is when I announced the November book. So the 15th of every month, the next book gets announced and I was just in conversation with that author this morning and I cannot wait for you to read that book and hear that conversation. The time is fa lying, y'all. I can't believe it. So there's just a lot to look forward to. So many great books coming out. And yeah, we are over on Instagram. Follow us on Instagram at ga reading if you are not already. There is a super exciting giveaway that's getting posted later this week that I cannot wait for. And I think that's, those are all the, that's all the housekeeping. I know Mo a lot of people probably fast forward through listening to me meander anyway, but that's okay. The conversations are way better than me. Meandering. So speaking of, please enjoy my conversations with Jade Chang and Rose Damo.

Jade Chang: 2:36

we went to the Purple Lounge. Is that what it's called? I think that's what

Jason Blitman: 2:42

Yes, of course. Did you see Lucy Arna?

Jade Chang: 2:45

No, but we Did she, is she still alive?

Jason Blitman: 2:49

Yeah. Lucy Arna is Lucy

Jade Chang: 2:50

is that their daughter? Oh, I didn't know that. Okay. Okay. I

Jason Blitman: 2:54

Yes. And she often performs at the purple room, which is why I

Jade Chang: 2:57

Oh, at first I thought you were calling Lucille Ball by her. By her former married name, and that she was somehow still alive. Okay. No, I didn't, who I did see is the woman who sang the theme song to the nanny. Do you remember that song?

Jason Blitman: 3:14

What.

Jade Chang: 3:14

Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 3:16

Do I remember that song? My husband and I during COVID watched every episode for the first

Jade Chang: 3:23

Me too. Not every episode, but I watched a lot of it.

Jason Blitman: 3:27

oh no, we watched Beginning to End. I couldn't believe how funny it was. But we never ever skipped the

Jade Chang: 3:35

But yeah, it's like the best theme song in existence, I think.

Jason Blitman: 3:41

So in fact. The Rosie O'Donnell show theme song is an homage to the nanny theme song, and the gays reading theme song is an homage to the Rosie O'Donnell theme song.

Jade Chang: 3:59

What? I love that. That's amazing.

Jason Blitman: 4:02

Yes. And I'm a all that to say I am a big fan of the Nannies theme song. You didn't even realize the rabbit hole that

Jade Chang: 4:11

I didn't, but I love it. Wait. Okay, so I'm gonna tell you this and I feel like you'll be properly excited, which is, I cannot remember her name right now, so apologies for that. But the singer. She does this, she is just a consummate performer, she was truly amazing. And she does this kind of improv song and she asks people for she was asking people for names, situations, things like that. And we were there for friend's birthday, but also one of the friends who was there was about to move to New York and they asked for a phrase. And a friend of mine shouted out, don't move to New York. And then her entire song, that was the chorus of the song was Don't Move to New York. And then we were like standing outside at the end, waiting for a car and just person after person came pouring out of the theater singing, don't Move to New York. It was amazing.

Jason Blitman: 5:17

I assume your friend did in fact

Jade Chang: 5:19

Yeah, she did. She's there now. It's very rude of her not to listen to this,

Jason Blitman: 5:24

The song did not

Jade Chang: 5:25

song didn't work

Jason Blitman: 5:27

Okay. Catchy,

Jade Chang: 5:29

but useless.

Jason Blitman: 5:30

Totally useless, but catchy. All you need, all you want in a song is for people to leave singing it.

Jade Chang: 5:36

It was so fun.

Jason Blitman: 5:37

Now you'll listen. You'll listen to the Gaze Reading theme song, and you will fully understand. I hope it gets stuck in your head too. Speaking

Jade Chang: 5:45

closely.

Jason Blitman: 5:46

Jade Chang, welcome to Gaze Reading.

Jade Chang: 5:49

Thank you.

Jason Blitman: 5:50

I'm just holding up your, I'm saying I'm holding up your book as though I said. Anything about it, but I didn't here to talk about your book. What a time to be alive. So for the people, what is your elevator pitch? For what a time to be alive.

Jade Chang: 6:05

My we're at a party and it's really loud and everyone's talking all around us and you just wanna go get a drink. Bitch is just,

Jason Blitman: 6:13

Yeah. What's your book about?

Jade Chang: 6:15

It's who accidentally becomes a self-help guru, and then it's a year in her life. That's the

Jason Blitman: 6:24

That is so beautifully succinct.

Jade Chang: 6:26

thank you.

Jason Blitman: 6:27

Yes. It's so funny that of all days, today's the day we're talking because I have never, I've never even gone remotely viral and I will not say that I've gone viral. However, had Jeff Hiller was on gay's reading who just won the Emmy for somebody somewhere, and.

Jade Chang: 6:50

yes. I saw a clip of him talking about it before. You know that clip that was like, I'm never gonna win. And then he went and then he

Jason Blitman: 6:57

Yes. And then he won. Yes.

Jade Chang: 6:59

love that show.

Jason Blitman: 7:01

So great, so happy for him. But he was on gay's reading and tells a very funny story about people not recognize, not knowing his name, but recognizing his face. And I shared that clip on Instagram when he won. And it has blown up as far as I'm concerned. There's like lots of shares, I've gotten lots of followers from it. But it's, it is not dissimilar from what happens to Lola in the book.

Jade Chang: 7:30

It's true. It's

Jason Blitman: 7:32

there is a little art imitating life or life imitating art. In my morning today.

Jade Chang: 7:37

I love that. How are you gonna capitalize on this and become a self-help guru in your own right now?

Jason Blitman: 7:43

That's a great question. Not only do I want, I don't necessarily wanna become a self-help guru, but I've always wanted to become a matchmaker. Which is not related at all, but I feel like there's a help part of it.

Jade Chang: 7:57

And and looking at people deeply and knowing what they really want.

Jason Blitman: 8:01

Yes. Yes. Jade, you see me?

Jade Chang: 8:05

True, True. Matchmaking. Matchmaking of the soul. Yes.

Jason Blitman: 8:08

I feel so seen. Okay. Yes, the book is about all of that, but. It is also at a higher level, a book about grief,

Jade Chang: 8:17

Yes, very much.

Jason Blitman: 8:19

And how we all grieve differently and what we do with someone else's grief. Something that comes up in the book is how grief is maybe among the only unifying forces in the

Jade Chang: 8:31

Mm-hmm.

Jason Blitman: 8:33

What does that mean to you?

Jade Chang: 8:36

Oh when I, it's interesting I wrote that sentence and I don't think I realized that people would relate to it and hold onto it as much as they have. And, first gonna be such a crass way to get into this answer, but,

Jason Blitman: 8:53

bing, bang, boom. Let's do

Jade Chang: 8:54

yeah, for any product. Of course there's, you have like promo, et cetera. So for part of the promotion for this book, we made a little bit of merch, a very fun sock and also a box. And on the box out the outside of the box, there were some quotes from the book and that is one of the quotes. And when. When the marketing person, Megan Deans, who suggested, who I was working on the box with when she suggested that quote, I was surprised because I don't know, at first I was like is it depressing? Is this, is this like how we wanna send it out? But but then everyone else also was like, no, we really. Feel both seen and affected by that quote. And I do. Yeah. And so I've thought about it a lot more than I tend to think about a particular sentence that I've written, and yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's interesting that you called it out too. But yes, I think it's true. I think that the only things that are. W we, the biggest mystery in the world is that we all die and we don't know what happens after we die, and we are all living our lives in a march towards that final end. And we can do it together, but essentially we have to do it alone. And somehow all of that is what unites us as humans. It's what creates. All the, most of the fear that people have in the world comes from a fear of grief or a fear that was precipitated by grief. And so much of what we, so much of the other things that we have are structures that we put up to deal with that fear, right? Religion. Luxury products. All of those are different, different ways of costing ourselves and protecting ourselves and yeah, so I think when I say grief is the only unifying force in the world it refers to all of that. And then I think also it refers to the fact that when you are yourself. In a period of grief, you do realize oh, everyone has felt this way at some point, or they will, and we don't see it, out in the world or sometimes even necessarily with our friends and family, and yet. It's true. It's there. It's there, and just as much as it doesn't mean, I don't think that like joy or hope or any of that is also very much there, but yeah. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 11:40

What is, how do you cope? Is your do you turn to religion or to fancy products or to, you rattled off a few things,

Jade Chang: 11:51

definitely. Neither of those things I would say. I love fancy food, but I'm, yeah, but fancy products are not really one of my vices. I really do think that, I write about this a little bit in the book, but I really do think that like the eternity of the natural world is our. Truest place to cope with anything. Like knowing that there are trees and forest systems that are as old as they are, knowing that there are rocks that have been mountains and have tumbled in the ocean and reemerged, like I, I feel like I really do find just a lot of true solace in knowing all those things.

Jason Blitman: 12:36

It's interesting because you said that when the quote was put on the box, you hadn't necessarily maybe you didn't say this, but. When talking about the book, you didn't initially talk about the book as being about grief, and so that's super interesting to me as someone who read the book and the question that I'm about to dive

Jade Chang: 12:59

Mm-hmm.

Jason Blitman: 13:00

There is something so overwhelming about how fragile humans are. We're literally just these fragile creatures among the earth. Was that. An overwhelming thing to be confronted with throughout the process of writing the book and, but maybe it wasn't, because that's not even necessarily how you thought of the book, but

Jade Chang: 13:57

I really, I love that question. you know, I mean, factually yes, it is about grief, right? It opens with a funeral. Lola, who. Who is the POV character? It's the whole book is in first person. It's a year in her life, and it is about how she becomes this accidental self-help guru in the face of her grief and trying to understand everything that's happened. But it's true that I didn't. That wasn't gr I would say grief wasn't like the driving force for me in writing the book, but I do think the fragility of humans, even though I didn't, I, I don't think I like really put it in those terms in my mind, but that is something that I find so moving, and so inspiring and I think that, I think it's interesting to me because. is about human connection, right? Like we are mostly interested in these relationships, how they play out, how we understand them. And the reason that these relationships are so important and impactful is because we are such like. Vulnerable little creatures who need these relationships and who don't really know how to go about them and who spend our entire lives figuring out how to be people.

Jason Blitman: 15:25

What did you grapple with that at all when you were writing or is that something upon reflection? sure. That's fair. And you, so it wasn't even like a conscious thing, it was just like part of the process because you're a person, you're a human. Yeah, Interesting. This episode comes out on, is your pub day the 30th mar? This the pub the episode comes out on pub day and at the end of. A month from now, the end of October is my episode with Catherine Newman about her book Wreck, which follow up to her book sandwich. It is also a book very much about grief and also about a young person dying and also about suddenly, being a young person or a young person being immortal or immortalized as this one little thing. I also do a book club with Altoa and the, my book of the month for October is Middle Spoon by Alejandro Varela, it's a book about, about a breakup, but it really is a book about grief ultimately. And so the, there, it's very interesting that sort of grief is this big theme of the fall and I almost feel like knowing the timeline of book publishing that. We're coming out of this like grieving time that we're all, that people were, deeply rooted in that as a theme. Anyway, just a, something I've observed in the

Jade Chang: 16:58

I think that's very true. Books that are coming out now, were probably mostly, if not conceived then they were probably mostly written during the pandemic, or at least started during the pandemic,

Jason Blitman: 17:10

end of it, or

Jade Chang: 17:11

yeah. And this like racial reckoning in America, this death of the institution, the, every, all of this. And it makes a lot of sense. And I think also I I think also there's this sort of, as an artist. There's this sort of should I be trying to write like a sweeping historical effort epic of some sort? Do I wanna deal with, do I wanna take on every single big event that has happened in this period in my life? And I do love reading books like that often, but I also, but I think there is also this real desire to say this is how it affects our specific personal lives. This is how this is how the kind of sweep of events this is how something like the pandemic breeds this kind of grief that people are thinking of and Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 18:11

And it's interesting that you're talking about that. As a creative person and thinking about the sweep as you will. The episode that has will have just come out when this one is out is with Angela Flournoy. And who mentions that you both wrote these By side and

Jade Chang: 18:30

is her pub day. Oh. And

Jason Blitman: 18:32

today is her pub day, the day of recording. It is indeed. There's something simple about the wilderness and the everydayness of the wilderness that makes it so impactful. And it was not dissimilar to me in reading this. It's like sweeping, but there is something everydayness, right? Just what happens if you go viral and that's not, that's out of your control and you just the outside forces of the world. It's not really a question. It's more of an interesting observation of a thing that I feel like we're all sitting in right now.

Jade Chang: 19:04

I think also, and this is perhaps a little bit of a stretch, but I think we realize more and more kind of what kind of an impact. These institutions that we've taken for granted as being things that are just all good, what kind of an impact they have on our like lived existence and, the small ways in like really taking care of our actual human relationships. For example, the small ways that we have to rebel against them and to be, fully formed humans of our own that whose existence doesn't depend on. The permissions of, of a system.

Jason Blitman: 19:43

And related and unrelated of course is the going viral on social

Jade Chang: 19:48

Mm-hmm.

Jason Blitman: 19:49

is the, perception of who we

Jade Chang: 19:52

Mm-hmm.

Jason Blitman: 19:53

on social media. Do you think we're all just imposters?

Jade Chang: 19:58

Yeah. I mean, well, I think it really depends. I think

Jason Blitman: 20:04

Period.

Jade Chang: 20:05

question, and I think it depends in part on what you think is an imposter and what you think is truth, right? I think that, do we all present with our most deeply felt most authentic selves in every moment of every day? No. And yes. Like you're making decisions all the time about what you're putting on, what you're not putting on your hair, you're making, like it's Yeah. Everything you could say that all of that is drag, right? All of that is an act, but

Jason Blitman: 20:39

It's funny that you say that specifically because I immediately after I said imposter, I just wrote down. I was like, I, because I don't, I didn't like that choice of word. Actually, I think I might have pulled it from the book if I'm being honest. But. I think it's less about being impo an imposter and more about being a performer.

Jade Chang: 20:56

Yes. Also, this is interesting. I think you probably didn't pull it from the book'cause I also don't like the word and I. Actually, this is a

Jason Blitman: 21:06

Listen, that is a such a, that's such a fair read. Oh my god.

Jade Chang: 21:10

This is, this is a different discussion, but for example, I do find the kind of, I understand the feeling behind imposter syndrome, but I actually do find the sorry I'm moving my camera around'cause I suddenly felt like such an empty chair, but I guess it's there already,

Jason Blitman: 21:26

it's okay.

Jade Chang: 21:27

That's where my imposter self sits, but Oh no, actually that's where my true self sits. That's, that would be the, no,

Jason Blitman: 21:35

It's you're saving every, your true self.

Jade Chang: 21:36

yeah,

Jason Blitman: 21:37

oh my God.

Jade Chang: 21:38

When she emerges, that's where she'll be.

Jason Blitman: 21:40

Now I'm like I'm sure I underlined it somewhere and I'm gonna, you're gonna get a DM for me later. It's gonna be a screenshot of the page, of the book.

Jade Chang: 21:49

I might have used the word, but

Jason Blitman: 21:52

So funny. I'm only teasing.

Jade Chang: 21:55

It wasn't someone worrying about imposter syndrome. I can at least say that for sure.

Jason Blitman: 22:01

No, no, No. Sure. It's just, it's so interesting'cause it made me think about this like weird family drama that had been going on where. The Cliff note version is I didn't go to my cousin's wedding and it was a huge drama and it boils down to the reason why I didn't go was for my mental health and when I had this like very long conversation with my aunt about it, which shouldn't have mattered anyway, her response was. I, I don't know that I believe you because everything on social media shows otherwise,

Jade Chang: 22:40

Oh, that's very interesting. Okay, so she's saying on social media, you look great, you look happy, you're going to parties, whatever you're posting pictures. How could you have mental health struggles? Interesting.

Jason Blitman: 22:55

To which I said, God bless my SSRIs.

Jade Chang: 22:59

Exactly.

Jason Blitman: 23:01

But it is just so interesting'cause I don't even think I realized how I was being perceived, how I what my sort of performance of my own self really looked like. But of course those are all very big themes throughout the book.

Jade Chang: 23:16

I think in a way there is no answer to it, right? Like I think that. I think we really like to scold ourselves a lot and scold our, the kind of era that, or the world that we've created, which is fair. It deserves a lot of criticism, but, and we like to say that we are uniquely performative, et cetera, in this period, but I just don't think that's true. I think that performance is part of humanity. I think that I think in. Even in a small village, there are, norms that you're performing there, there are rituals that you're performing there. There is a self that you are outside and there is a self that you are inside. I think that is just a thing that we have always done, and I think if anything people are more and more aware of how you can't take, everything that is shown on social media as like the full truth of somebody's life and

Jason Blitman: 24:17

That's an interesting accidental segue into another big question that I have for you. I think so much of the book is also about being seen. What does that mean to you?

Jade Chang: 24:27

That's a great question. I, I. Think it is. It's so deeply interesting to me, the concern with being seen, the fear of being seen, the things that we do to be seen. I think that, God, what does it mean to me? I don't know that I have a specific answer for that. I.

Jason Blitman: 24:54

That's fair.

Jade Chang: 24:55

This is gonna be a weird answer. I do feel a little bit like I think of myself as an, a bit of an observer in that project. Mostly because I think I'm really lucky to have felt quite seen as. A child. I think, I don't remember a real sense of not having that, and this is like a reverse engineered realization, right? I don't remember a real sense of not having that. So seeing more and more people talk about wanting it made me think what is it? Have I had it? Do you have any siblings? I do have a younger sister, but she's five years younger, so I was an only child for five years, and I have very nice parents. Yeah. That's interesting.

Jason Blitman: 25:41

I'm the oldest of three and my youngest, my sister below me is just about three years younger. And then I have one who's five years younger. So there was that element of, I was in a, in important position in my life where I. Wasn't seen in quotation mark. So that might be where my little need comes

Jade Chang: 26:03

No, it's interesting. And I do think some of it is just inborn, I think we all need a certain degree of it, a long time ago, I worked at Good Reads and I interviewed John Green, and this was right after the Fulton Herst Stars came out. And he, he was already quite popular as a YA author and we were talking about this, we were talking about the need to be seen. And part of what I think this comes up in that book, he, one of the characters talks about the universe as a see in universe, and. Being seen by. And that the universe wishes to be seen, that all this beauty exists because it wishes to be perceived. And I remember asking him about it and he was like, yeah, I used to really, feel a need to be seen. And then he's but now I feel very sufficiently looked at, which

Jason Blitman: 27:00

Yeah.

Jade Chang: 27:02

That is also interesting. Like I definitely don't feel it from his terms, from that kind of a y fandom is no joke at all, but

Jason Blitman: 27:10

Yeah, but it is interesting when you have aspirations and then it almost eclipses what you were going for. Then you're like, oh God, I'm too much. Too. See being soy too much.

Jade Chang: 27:21

What makes you feel seen? Do you feel, do you often feel unseen in relationships or I don't mean just sexual relationships, just like friendships or,

Jason Blitman: 27:32

Yeah. I think we live in a world right now that is, it's things are real. Focused. REEL. So There's just an attention span that is short, I think, right And I think so few people have attention for each other,

Jade Chang: 27:54

Mm.

Jason Blitman: 27:55

Have a, have, I don't think people have the attention span for each other. And so it's give me the high level. What's happening in your life? Tell me what you're, what's going on? And then we can move on, or whatever it is. And so I think, when you can spend time with a friend, with a loved one with anyone who, or with a stranger who asks a meaningful question, who can take something you've said and say it back. In a regurgitated way that acknowledges that you have been heard Been seen. I think it's that

Jade Chang: 28:34

Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I do think it's that. I think it's also, I think honestly, as. Writers and people who get to be in the world of books. I, maybe I'm just biased, but I do think that I get to have like quite connected conversations pretty often, even when it's not about my book, even when it's about other things.

Jason Blitman: 29:00

but this is funny that you say this because my husband and I moved across the country and the most. Among the more meaningful connections I've made have been through the podcast because I've had focused hour long

Jade Chang: 29:18

Mm-hmm.

Jason Blitman: 29:19

that have, sure. Maybe we're talking about your book, but we're also talking about just like life and. Themes in life and metaphors and whatever. And so we'll meet an author who's who I'm moderating their in-person event or whatever, and there is a deep connection there already because of a conversation like

Jade Chang: 29:37

Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah. And also it's just such an excuse to be able to dive into something immediately, which is also so fun. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 29:48

You were to do a TED Talk, what would it be on?

Jade Chang: 29:51

It's a great que wait, can I just say one more thing about being in

Jason Blitman: 29:55

Of course, you could say 10 more things.

Jade Chang: 29:57

Okay. Okay.

Jason Blitman: 29:59

See you, Jade. I see you. You can say whatever you want.

Jade Chang: 30:01

see, but, so I think that there is, I think part of it is that, like what you receive from the outside of course it's all the interplay is so entwined. But I do also think a large part of it is how much you do or don't feel like you have to adjust your own self to receive like a, whatever is satisfactory to you, amount of interest and approval, et cetera. I think that, yeah, so I think with a lot of that kind of thing, I do think there's a degree of luck in it. Like I feel quite lucky that I don't have to I feel like I essentially. Want to wear the things that I wear, like want to look the way that I look and want to talk about the things that I talk about. And none of that has changed very much since I was a child, honestly. And I've always been like quite satisfied with the response that I've received from those things. But that all of that is a fluke and is dependent on our current cultural norms and et cetera, et cetera.

Jason Blitman: 31:18

Yeah.

Jade Chang: 31:19

yeah.

Jason Blitman: 31:20

And it's funny'cause it makes me think about, of course, audition by Katie Kitamura. And just the, fact that I ended up using the word performance. Of course, that's literally what the book is about,

Jade Chang: 31:31

I haven't read that. I've read Intimacies and I loved it,

Jason Blitman: 31:34

it's about every It's about everything we're talking about, so it's very interesting. Um,

Jade Chang: 31:37

I should definitely read it.

Jason Blitman: 31:39

okay. What would your Ted talk be?

Jade Chang: 31:41

what would my Ted talk be?

Jason Blitman: 31:44

Anything. It could be anything

Jade Chang: 31:45

Honestly, now that this is gonna sound so evil, but now that we're talking about this, I feel like I could give a TED talk on how to make people feel seen. And

Jason Blitman: 31:56

really. Okay.

Jade Chang: 31:58

I do. And how, it's a superpower you could develop. And I think that part of that comes from, having gone to TED a couple of times and I write, there's a chapter in the book where we go to Ted and observing. The real, just the way that the speakers look. I have a lot of criticism of the event and a lot of appreciation for it. I definitely saw and heard and experienced some things that I loved, and then there was a lot that I felt quite cynical about as well. But I think the Ted talk of itself is, obviously engineered to make people, to give people a sort of aha moment. And I think that it operates on a really reliable set of rules. Ted talks themselves are definitely engineered for an aha moment, and I think that it would be quite possible to use a similar set of principles to engineer for a personal connection moment. Essentially.

Jason Blitman: 33:02

Do you, you just said you've been to a bunch of them. Do you remember any aha moments that you've had at a Ted?

Jade Chang: 33:09

So my most significant moment for sure was and I, again, this shows up

Jason Blitman: 33:16

I.

Jade Chang: 33:16

in this book, but there was, this actually wasn't one of the talks. They have this crazy thing outside of the main conference room. They have all these kind of experiences and just meditation pod after copper distillery of essential oils after yeah it's very, it's fascinating. But there was this VR experience that, this was a little bit before I would say VR technology was completely, commonplace to find in like a game at someone's house or whatever. And it was essentially the experience of being a tree and you put on a headset and you stood on a little platform, a little deus and. You started out as a little seed in the ground and there were, and you could see at your eye level, ants walking by and it wasn't. A hundred percent realistic, but it was pretty easy to suspend that disbelief and then you grow gradually and you can, once you sprouted little like leaves and branches, you could operate them and if there was like a squirrel on you, I think you could shake it a little bit. That kind of thing. And I found it to be so beautiful and so moving and. It's, I think probably now, this was almost eight years ago, I think probably that now the technology would feel, a little bit outdated, but at the time it really felt I have never thought about what it was to be a tree and just,

Jason Blitman: 35:00

something more specific that was moving to you?

Jade Chang: 35:03

I. I don't know. I think just seeing it, seeing the world from that perspective and seeing myself in connection to the rest of the forest, seeing, seeing the other trees that were growing with me. The taller ones, the shorter ones, the way that we once you get up higher, you make way for each other a little bit so that everyone has a little bit of sun. I mean it, yeah, I really found it to be very beautiful, very moving.

Jason Blitman: 35:32

yeah.

Jade Chang: 35:33

It ends in a forest fire, which is horrifying, and I take a shoe with that. With that creative choice but yeah, I, and it the thing itself does show up in the book, but I, yeah, I would say that was the number one thing that had a huge impact on me. And the number two thing was realizing oh, each of these speakers is doing a very reliable thing, like they're. Getting our sympathy, bringing us to a point, like showing us a thing that we didn't think we knew but oh hey, it's actually this, realizing that there was that tactic and then realizing that I also went to an Oprah Super Soul Sunday in part as research for this book. And I realized that what those kind of spiritual leaders, quote unquote were doing was exactly the same thing, and yeah, seeing belief as a methodology that can just be broken down, and then also going to. One of the like meta churches in LA again as research and realizing that when people are like, called up to give testimony, it's, they're again using like kind of the same exact series of or, like way of structuring a speech. Yeah, it, yeah, like seeing all that definitely made me feel like, oh. I really I was already writing this book, but it definitely made me feel like, oh yes, like seeing the rise of a guru from the point of view of the guru herself is there are good reasons to do that. There are good reasons to do that.

Jason Blitman: 37:21

It's also interesting'cause it's almost like flour, water salt gets you, you can make dough, right? If you use that to make dough for a pizza. If you use that to make dough for bread, if you use that to make dough for, it's at its core a version of the same thing. Whether it's used for Ted or it's used for church, or it's used for a cult, or it's used for something else.

Jade Chang: 37:46

Yes. And also that dough can be a shroud. That dough can be a crowd. Like it can literally, even in that, you know what I mean? yeah. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 37:57

If you're if your cult had a brand, what would it be?

Jade Chang: 38:02

Oh man. I've been really trying hard to start a savory oatmeal cult, and I have very few, but if you'd like to join, I'm taking

Jason Blitman: 38:14

Egg cheese, scallions, salt, pepper, Jade. I am here for this.

Jade Chang: 38:22

Amazing.

Jason Blitman: 38:23

Oh my god. I'm so excited.

Jade Chang: 38:25

you like to? Hi.

Jason Blitman: 38:27

What are we calling it? What's the website address? I'm ready.

Jade Chang: 38:31

Okay. I am trying to think of a name. Look, the bad version, I think would be something like O, but O-H-H-H-H-H-T.

Jason Blitman: 38:45

Oh, Okay. I just came off with

Jade Chang: 38:47

okay. Okay.

Jason Blitman: 38:48

Save re colon oatmeal.

Jade Chang: 38:53

Beautiful.

Jason Blitman: 38:55

So stupid.

Jade Chang: 38:56

Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 38:57

It's a cult. It's a religion. We're gonna be saved. I love savory oatmeal. So funny. Um, There is a moment in the book where Lola is house sitting, something like that, and uses the people's car, and there is one CD in the car. What would your one CD be? If you could only have one CD in the car, what would it be?

Jade Chang: 39:23

Okay. So first of all, Lola is babysitting for a rabbit. That's,

Jason Blitman: 39:28

Oh yeah, sorry

Jade Chang: 39:30

yeah.

Jason Blitman: 39:30

I couldn't remember the exact detail,

Jade Chang: 39:32

That's okay. I just don't wanna leave Aristotle the rabbit out of this too

Jason Blitman: 39:36

I was just gonna say his name. His name is Aristotle. How could I forget?

Jade Chang: 39:40

When I was in like sixth grade or something, a friend made me a mixed tape and I guess it was a mixed CD and I wasn't, it wasn't like, like that intensive a music listener, before then and shockingly, I cannot remember any of the songs on it, which doesn't, which seems like a lie, but I just can't remember them. But I remember getting it and being so pleased and listening to it over and over again and being like, oh, music is fun. Okay. I would listen to that. That would be my

Jason Blitman: 40:18

If you can't remember exactly what it was, what was the like general genre? Was it rap? Was it nineties pop? Was it,

Jade Chang: 40:26

so

Jason Blitman: 40:26

and b? I don't know what was it?

Jade Chang: 40:28

there's a radio station in LA called K Rock that was like like they probably played a lot of REM and Depeche Mode and bands like that, but then they also, like Sublime was on it. Like bands like that. Like a lot of like terrible Southern California. I grew up in la a lot of terrible Southern California music. I think I told my friend that I mostly listened to that radio station and then they were like, Ugh, no, you need to listen to more things. It was like stuff from the, it was like stuff from the seventies. This was a very musically literate friend. This was like a whole different,

Jason Blitman: 41:10

I love this.

Jade Chang: 41:11

There was a Nico in the Middle Underground song on it, I remember.

Jason Blitman: 41:15

How interesting.

Jade Chang: 41:17

They were highbrow.

Jason Blitman: 41:18

In our last few minutes together, there is a, an uber big question that comes up in the book that I'm sort of curious to ask you about.

Jade Chang: 41:28

Okay.

Jason Blitman: 41:29

Um. Uh, This is completely out of context, but you'll understand where it's coming from. The question is, what did you want here on Earth?

Jade Chang: 41:43

Wow. Wow.

Jason Blitman: 41:44

you think You would say to that?

Jade Chang: 41:45

that's a good question. What did I want here on Earth? That's a very moving question. You're gonna make me cry. I mean,

Jason Blitman: 41:57

I saved it to the end for a

Jade Chang: 41:58

I love it. No, thank you so much. I really love it. I think just all of this, you know, I think. Yeah, I think well, one, I wonder if we can really know what we truly wanted, you know, while we're still here. Um, But also, yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, it was very, really brought, I am an easy crier, but that was a, that was a really. That was a really great question. No, thank you. I love it. Thank you so much. But yeah, I think that definitely, being, just getting to go through life with people I love and a sort of degree of. Joy, a degree of chaos, a degree of surprise, a degree of wonder. Yeah, I think all of that. And then, and then I think also there's because the whole world is like irrevocably connected, there's. I want that for everyone else too, and

Jason Blitman: 43:26

That's a very beautiful thing to say.

Jade Chang: 43:28

wow. Thanks. What do you want? Do you know?

Jason Blitman: 43:34

That's a great question too. I, it's so interesting that I've already had my conversation with Katherine Newman, even though it's the end, it's book ending this month. Because similarly, there's a very big question that comes up in her book and that is essentially how do you wanna spend your time? And I think it had me thinking so much about just being intentional, right? So what did I want to do here on earth? I want to be intentional. I think if I had to boil it down to something, I want to be intentional with who I spend my time with and who gets my attention. Who I see both literally and metaphorically. Yeah,

Jade Chang: 44:20

Yeah

Jason Blitman: 44:20

big question. That's what your book is doing. It's asking big questions.

Jade Chang: 44:23

it is. That is the what else are we doing besides asking big

Jason Blitman: 44:28

Yes.

Jade Chang: 44:29

Yes. But also really what a gift, to be able to do things intentionally, to

Jason Blitman: 44:36

oh, it's a hundred percent a privilege. Absolutely. And just to be able to think about it even being lazy with intention. I'm going to rest,

Jade Chang: 44:46

Yeah. Totally.

Jason Blitman: 44:48

or I'm going to scroll, Whatever that means.

Jade Chang: 44:53

I do intentionally make that choice more

Jason Blitman: 44:57

Yeah, I know. For better or for worse. To all of that, I say what a time to be alive. which was not something I was not intending to say that, here we are. Of course, everyone, go get your copy of what A Time To Be Alive by Jade Chang out now wherever you get your books. Jade, thank you so much for being here on GA Reading Today.

Jade Chang: 45:19

Thank you so much. It was such a pleasure. It was so fun to talk to you. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

Jason Blitman: 45:25

fun to talk to you too. We have the best, worst thing in common.

Rose Dommu: 45:36

Okay.

Jason Blitman: 45:37

Can you guess what that is?

Rose Dommu: 45:38

Is it that we're

Jason Blitman: 45:39

Yes.

Rose Dommu: 45:40

Yes, I knew it. Where are you from?

Jason Blitman: 45:43

Um, I can tell you this because you're from Boca. I'm from Cooper City.

Rose Dommu: 45:48

Oh, okay.

Jason Blitman: 45:49

I can't say that to most people'cause they don't know where that

Rose Dommu: 45:52

They're like, most people when I say Bo Ratone, they're like, what's that? Or they're like, oh, is that where the old people are?

Jason Blitman: 45:58

The old people run amuck in South Florida

Rose Dommu: 46:00

they do.

Jason Blitman: 46:01

Yeah, I went to Cooper City High School. Where did you go to school?

Rose Dommu: 46:03

I went to Dreyfus, the

Jason Blitman: 46:05

Yes, of course. Were you a theater person?

Rose Dommu: 46:10

I was.

Jason Blitman: 46:11

We'll get to all of that at another time. But Rose Dam, you welcome to Gay's reading.

Rose Dommu: 46:19

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be

Jason Blitman: 46:22

Thank you for being here. Thank you for being my guest gay reader today, so let's just dive in. What are you reading?

Rose Dommu: 46:29

So right now I'm reading the September House by Carissa Orlando, which is a horror novel and I'm actually like, I'm gonna say I am, I'm reading it on my Kindle. So I'm, I have 20% left, so I'm like, really? It's like at taking everything in me right now, not to. Go finish it right now. And it's a haunted house book and it's about this older woman who lives in this haunted Victorian house with her husband and he has disappeared and their adult daughter is showing up to be like, what's going on? Where? Where's dad? And as the novel goes on, you're seeing how. This woman, the main character, has really inoculated herself against the horror of living in a haunted house. And you discover why, because of the things that have happened in her life, she's been able to do that. And it's just really funny and really sad and scary, and I'm totally obsessed with it.

Jason Blitman: 47:29

Is that a genre that you typically are drawn to?

Rose Dommu: 47:33

Yeah I would say that this year I have been reading almost exclusively horror.

Jason Blitman: 47:40

it's less scary than the real world.

Rose Dommu: 47:42

No, literally, I only read horror novels, and I only watch horror movies because they make me feel normal.

Jason Blitman: 47:50

Yeah.

Rose Dommu: 47:51

Yeah it's that bad. It's got it's real dystopia hours outside. And so reading about people getting murdered is such a nice break from all that.

Jason Blitman: 48:03

That is sad.

Rose Dommu: 48:06

sad.

Jason Blitman: 48:07

are there other books in this space that you would recommend? I'm like, not a really a horror person, but what's like a good.

Rose Dommu: 48:17

Yeah. This year, some things I've really loved are recently Gretchen Felker, Martin's new novel Black Flame. She wrote Manhunt and Cuckoo. Black Flame is it has the vibe of a nineties. Like erotic horror film, like Candyman vibes. It's about this archivist who is restoring a cursed film from World War II era Germany. Very sexy and gross and scary. I also really loved this novel, our Share of Knight by Mariana Enriquez. Which is like this epic saga set in post dirty war Argentina. That's all like cult horror. That was really incredible.

Jason Blitman: 49:08

She has a new book of stories coming out

Rose Dommu: 49:10

oh my God. I need to read

Jason Blitman: 49:12

at the end of this month. What is it called? Somebody Is Walking on Your Grave, is

Rose Dommu: 49:16

She's such a brilliant writer. I also loved the Unworthy by Augustina Ba Tarica who wrote Tenders the Flesh, which was like a really big book a couple years ago. That's about this like sect of nuns in a living in a like cloistered in a monastery in a post-apocalyptic world who'd like, do all this. Oh yeah,

Jason Blitman: 49:40

Anyone who's watching this on YouTube sees me disappear and then grab a copy of a book to present it. But I was like, oh, these are all on my radar. How, but I haven't read them yet, so

Rose Dommu: 49:49

Okay, you now you

Jason Blitman: 49:50

Now I need to read it. Okay, now it's off my bookshelf, so now it's, oh my God, it's short.

Rose Dommu: 49:56

Yes. Love a short novel.

Jason Blitman: 49:58

Oh my God. It's 175 pages and the font is big and the space between the lines is pretty big. This

Rose Dommu: 50:05

and it's an Epistolatory novel, which I don't usually fuck with, but it really worked for me.

Jason Blitman: 50:12

Epistolatory novels are all the rage this year.

Rose Dommu: 50:17

People just wanna publish their journals,

Jason Blitman: 50:19

yes. Was there anything else that you are currently reading that you wanted to shout out?

Rose Dommu: 50:24

Oh yeah. I'm also working my way through Harron Walker's book of essays, aggregated discontent. Harron is doing my, is gonna be in conversation with me for my book launch at The Strand on September 23rd, and I've. Had her book since it came out earlier this year, it's I find reading nonfiction really hard, so I have to do it one essay at a time. But it's actually been so enjoyable to stretch the process out because Heron is just so brilliant and so funny. So it's like a nice little treat. Every like week or so, I'll let myself read a chapter.

Jason Blitman: 51:01

No offense to her, but you saying her name. I am. I can't help but imagine the character Karen Walker in disguise.

Rose Dommu: 51:13

From Will and Grace, it's, that's not the situation we're looking at here

Jason Blitman: 51:19

Of course

Rose Dommu: 51:20

your brain

Jason Blitman: 51:20

Like Karen Walker's, just I'm gonna put on, a hat and call myself Heron and everyone's gonna think I'm someone

Rose Dommu: 51:25

It's like

Jason Blitman: 51:26

And Anastasia

Rose Dommu: 51:27

like, I'm gonna give myself bangs

Jason Blitman: 51:28

Right.

Rose Dommu: 51:29

To Brooklyn and call myself Heron.

Jason Blitman: 51:32

That is her Brooklyn persona.

Rose Dommu: 51:34

Yeah. It's like the, it's like the alternate version of Anastasia Beaver Hausen, which we all know is famously her alter

Jason Blitman: 51:40

Exactly. If the chapter of your life that you're in right now had a title, what would it be?

Rose Dommu: 51:48

It's all happening question mark.

Jason Blitman: 51:52

Okay. Why the question mark?

Rose Dommu: 51:54

Just'cause it is all happening, but I am very unsure of what it's all leading to, I guess my debut novels coming out. Been such a long run up to it, and now that it's finally here, I'm like, it's finally here. And how does my how do things change once it's out and I'm not anticipating the release anymore? And what's going to happen? Are people going to like it? Are people going to hate it? Am I going to hate it? Yeah, it's just it's a really big question mark that has been looming and now the sentence is ending.

Jason Blitman: 52:41

Interesting. Yeah, of course. Not even just the sentence, but like the chapter, right? Like it's, you're filling in the blanks and then it will only start a new chapter where you answer the question.

Rose Dommu: 52:51

And also I think the question mark is partially because I have been disabused of the notion that it, that, that chapter will end because like books are so different than I think a lot of other forms of media where there's such a longer tale of their like impact and influence and the kind of life they can live. So I don't know who knows how long I'll be talking about this damn book

Jason Blitman: 53:17

Maybe forever.

Rose Dommu: 53:18

maybe forever and that would be great'cause I do love it and I think it's fabulous.

Jason Blitman: 53:22

chapter title in your book will end in the question mark. How long will I be talking about this book? Question mark.

Rose Dommu: 53:29

yes. What am I gonna do next? Question,

Jason Blitman: 53:31

Oh God, that's a stressful one.

Rose Dommu: 53:33

I already do know, and I'm I've been working on my second novel for, since last summer, and I'm also working on a screenplay. So like I do know what I'm doing next, but it's like I've known for. Years now that like this novel coming out was this thing that I was working towards. And now that anticipation is ending,

Jason Blitman: 53:59

Yeah. It's like you're, you start school in kindergarten and you know that you'll get to graduation eventually, but that's so long from then. And then you finally get there. You're like, uhoh. So talk to me about Best Woman. What is your elevator pitch for your debut novel?

Rose Dommu: 54:15

So best woman is a. Send up a classic nineties rom-coms, but through a, contemporary queer lens. When I first started writing it, the Google Doc that it lived in was called My Best Trans Wedding. It's about Julia, who is a trans woman living in New York City, and she's going home to Boca Raton, Florida to be the best woman in her brother's wedding. And a couple weeks before she's to go down there, she finds out that the maid of honor has been sacked, and the new maid of honor stepping in is her number one high school crush, who she has been obsessed with for the past. 15 years and in a bid to, weasel her way into this girl's good graces. She tells a little white lie in the grand tradition of romantic comedies. That very quickly spirals out of control. She goes home to Boca for the wedding and you meet this whole wacky cast of characters from her family. And there's romcom shenanigans and things are discovered and journeys are undertaken. It's funny, it's really introspective about, identity and family and. Transness and it very much is like a coming of age novel and a family story wrapped in the like sugary sweet icing of a romantic comedy set at a wedding.

Jason Blitman: 55:55

Rom-com shenanigans. I think it's gonna be my drag name.

Rose Dommu: 56:01

That's a good one. It would have to be like. She gans. Yeah.

Jason Blitman: 56:08

right. CHE.

Rose Dommu: 56:10

Yes.

Jason Blitman: 56:12

What are some of your favorite rom-com shenanigans? Or you could give specific examples like from movies that you love.

Rose Dommu: 56:19

I think a, like a lie, is lying about something that honestly, is not that important but feels really like world ending at the time. I just really like when characters and romantic comedies make really bad decisions. I like when characters in any kind of story make bad decisions. So yeah that's the best, because you want, I personally want a protagonist who I want to grab and shake and be like what's wrong with you?

Jason Blitman: 56:51

And what's wrong with you, but then also watch them turn it around

Rose Dommu: 56:56

Or not?

Jason Blitman: 56:56

or not and see how they make it work for them.

Rose Dommu: 57:01

Yeah. Or see how they have to own up to the consequences of their

Jason Blitman: 57:04

Yes. You saying that, and I don't know why, but hearing romcom shenanigans, the very first thing that I think about is the scene in Father of the Bride where steve Martin goes upstairs and looks at the bank book of the par of the other parents and it like flies out the window and into the pool and he has to run away from the dogs. It's a whole, it is a whole thing and it's like how do you get out of that? Yeah, that's what I think of when I think of romcom shenanigans.

Rose Dommu: 57:36

Yeah, they are. They're these like sort of operatic level dramas. With like acts of almost god-like interference that happened that, move the plot forward, but at the end they're very human stories.

Jason Blitman: 57:51

sure. You, as we discovered, have a background in, in theater. You are now writing this or you've written this novel. What, when did books become important to you?

Rose Dommu: 58:04

the thing is, it's, that's such a hard question to answer because I can't remember a time when books weren't important to me. I was a very precocious reader as a child. Like. One of, I think one of my formative book memories was like going to the library and seeing Carrie by Stephen King when I was like in third or fourth grade, and liking how the cover looked and just like plucking it off the shelf and deciding to read it. And like my parents never told me that what I could or couldn't read. So I just started reading it and I was like, okay, I guess I read like adult novels now.

Jason Blitman: 58:41

So that way are there other, some formative books that come to mind?

Rose Dommu: 58:46

Yeah. When I was 19, I read Tipping The Velvet by Sarah Waters, and that was really transformative because it was the first time I'd read like a properly queer novel, and particularly a queer historical novel where I realized, oh. This queer people have always existed and will always exist, and it's really interesting to read stories where queerness is crucial to the plot, into the character's journeys.

Jason Blitman: 59:18

Yeah. Yeah. I talk all the time about how. Among those for me was red, white, and royal blue, which I'm, I am a relatively late in life novel reader, so that was one of the first that I picked up and was like, oh, this is a quirky rom-com that is, a little fan fictiony, but I've seen myself in it,

Rose Dommu: 59:42

Absolutely that's really that experience was why I wanted to write We are so very much at the advent of. Trans fiction as a genre there. There are some amazing writers out there and there is a legacy of trans fiction, but there's just not a lot of it. And I really wanted to see a, I wanted to see a romantic comedy with a, with a trans protagonist. I wanted a trans person to have that experience of that escapist fantasy and to be able to see themselves reflected in it.

Jason Blitman: 1:00:22

Wedding involved. So it's an, it's easy to make a parallel to my best friend's wedding, to my big fat Greek wedding, to four weddings and a funeral, anything that has the word wedding in it, father of the bride. Regardless of not thinking about comps for your book, but what are some rom-coms that you grew up loving?

Rose Dommu: 1:00:41

So one that I, that I. Kind of excavated recently from the depths of my memory was the truth about Cats and Dogs with Uma Thurman and Janine Garaffo, which I used to watch on like HBO or Cinemax all the time as a kid. And that's another romantic comedy where it's like this stupid lie is told.'Cause it's like a rip off of Cyrano. And I just loved the idea of uma Thurman pretending to have Janine Garofalo's voice, and there was like, and just these two very different women. There's something trans about it to me a little too. There's a scene where Uma Thurman has to like anally penetrate a turtle. It's just really weird and fabulous.

Jason Blitman: 1:01:28

I saw it many moons ago. Remember none of what you just talked about.

Rose Dommu: 1:01:33

It's worth revisiting.

Jason Blitman: 1:01:35

interesting. My my deep cut is often must love dogs.

Rose Dommu: 1:01:41

Never seen.

Jason Blitman: 1:01:42

Yeah, that's okay. I think it has like a 22% on Rotten Tomatoes. It's not it's, it is not high art, but it is, it just brings me joy. And Christopher Plummer is in it. And who doesn't love Christopher Plummer?

Rose Dommu: 1:01:56

Tea?

Jason Blitman: 1:01:56

We need romcoms right now.

Rose Dommu: 1:01:58

I know, and I think the state of the rom-com is pretty dire, both in terms of movies and books because like romance as a category has become huge, but it's in this way where it's all. Centered around beloved story only and it's so smut forward and that's great. I love smut. I grew up reading fan fiction. Best Woman is more sexy than smutty. And I think. Like the ro the great Rom comes of your really always had a balance between the romance and whatever inner journey the protagonist was going on.

Jason Blitman: 1:02:42

Yeah inner journey and also not to circle it back to this, but shenanigans,

Rose Dommu: 1:02:47

exactly.

Jason Blitman: 1:02:48

A sort of classic contemporary romance novel doesn't always have the shena shenanigan aspect,

Rose Dommu: 1:02:55

No,

Jason Blitman: 1:02:56

and we

Rose Dommu: 1:02:56

they, a lot of them take themselves really seriously, especially with the romantic of it all. I just wanna have, nobody wants to have fun anymore.

Jason Blitman: 1:03:05

Nobody wants to have funny, someone write a letter in someone else's voice, send an email, see or know someone. Tell a lie. Circle us back. It's fine.

Rose Dommu: 1:03:16

And that's what I'm doing. That's what I'm

Jason Blitman: 1:03:19

here you

Rose Dommu: 1:03:19

that is my, that's the agenda.

Jason Blitman: 1:03:21

So everyone go get your copy of Best Woman by Rose Dommu. It is out now. Wherever you get your books, I'm so excited for you and for all the people to check out your debut Romcom, and I can't wait for the next one.

Rose Dommu: 1:03:35

Thank you so much.

1:03:37

Thank you, Jade. Thank you Rose. Everybody have a wonderful rest of your day. As always, thank you for being here, and I will see you next week. Bye.